Odds of climate change (for the worse)?

[Gurdari]

So, we have increased the amount of CO2, and other gases in the atmosphere, we've polluted much of the planet, and altered many eco-systems. We have essentially disrupted Earth's equation, or the 'normal state' of things.

So, what is likely to result?

A) Nothing changes at all (despite the "elements of the equation" changing)
B) Things change for the better (more fresh water, cleaner air, lots of vibrant ecosystems, the weather gets MORE predictable)
C) Things change for the worse...(less fresh water, dirtier air, loss of vibrant ecosystems, the weather gets LESS predictable)

Mathematically, option A is impossible.
You decide which of the other two is more likely (and then give a shit if that's your nature).

 

[k2skier]

C. Life on this planet will suffer the most from a lack of clean drinking water do to overpopulation and deforestation.

 

[KittenKoder]

'A' is impossible because it's naturally impossible. Nature changes, without change and sometimes drastic and erratic change then life does not improve, evolution stops, and the world becomes as stagnant as Mars.

 

[Old Rocks]

Kitten, when the change is drastic enough, evolution stops for a majority of the life existing at that time. And organisms survive the catastrophe based more on luck than adaption.

 

[krotchdog]

co2 is so tiny its impossible to determine its effect, what is the biggest green house gas and what has the most effect on the heat of the planet?

 

[KittenKoder]

Kitten, when the change is drastic enough, evolution stops for a majority of the life existing at that time. And organisms survive the catastrophe based more on luck than adaption.

You don't know much about evolution, do you. It is the most drastic changes that have caused the ecosystem to have evolved. For example the cockroach, it will survive even a nuclear holocaust, no matter what we do, they will always be there. They were too big before but still managed to survive and grow smaller, thus allowing them to live longer on less food. There are several other such species on the planet. A few more catastrophes and we could have many more, even a food source that is impervious to anything, allowing us humans to survive any event as well. Surviving a catastrophe itself is mostly luck for most species, but it forces adaptation in those who did survive on luck. This forced adaptation is what creates such huge leaps in evolution, the gradual steps take billions of years, while those spurred by massive changes in the environment can take only decades. Evolution and nature are not stopped by anything, nor can we "kill off the planet", it's impossible, but as I said, much of our flaws as a species may be a result of nature setting itself up for another such change.

 

[Old Rocks]

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

 

[KittenKoder]

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

Again, ignoring all other sciences and possibilities and focusing on just one tiny (minute at this point) fact to drum up fear. Counter my reasoning with real reasoning. CO2 is a naturally occurring chemical that actually is a very important part of the ecosystem, just because it also causes warming doesn't make it less important.

 

[Sinatra]

I love some good CO2!

The earth has been warmer...the earth has been colder.

'Nuff said.

 

[KittenKoder]

I love some good CO2!

The earth has been warmer...the earth has been colder.

'Nuff said.

Thinking of planting in in door garden, I wouldn't be upset at having more CO2 to push out the CO from the neighboring freeway so they will grow better. As soon as it warms up enough (finger crossed) that is. It's been too cold these last couple years here to get anything started on time.

 

[Sinatra]

I love some good CO2!

The earth has been warmer...the earth has been colder.

'Nuff said.

Thinking of planting in in door garden, I wouldn't be upset at having more CO2 to push out the CO from the neighboring freeway so they will grow better. As soon as it warms up enough (finger crossed) that is. It's been too cold these last couple years here to get anything started on time.

No kidding! It is laughable how the global warmers are now running around admitting (some of them at any rate) how the earth's temps have stopped rising, or even declined, and yet - in about 20 or 30 years, they will come back up HOTTER THAN EVER!!!

It's like the palm reader telling you you will live a long life unless you die young.

It would be completely laughable if not for governments around the world, spurred on by multi-billion dollar corporations, to push for this Cap n Trade BS. That kind of overt power grab is frightening in its long-term implications...

 

[k2skier]

I love some good CO2!

The earth has been warmer...the earth has been colder.

'Nuff said.

Thinking of planting in in door garden, I wouldn't be upset at having more CO2 to push out the CO from the neighboring freeway so they will grow better. As soon as it warms up enough (finger crossed) that is. It's been too cold these last couple years here to get anything started on time.

You are so right on the cold and late springs, also fall has been warmer than average and winter has come late also, the last couple of years, La Nina.

 

[KittenKoder]

I love some good CO2!

The earth has been warmer...the earth has been colder.

'Nuff said.

Thinking of planting in in door garden, I wouldn't be upset at having more CO2 to push out the CO from the neighboring freeway so they will grow better. As soon as it warms up enough (finger crossed) that is. It's been too cold these last couple years here to get anything started on time.

You are so right on the cold and late springs, also fall has been warmer than average and winter has come late also, the last couple of years, La Nina.

Strange, where is this warm fall happening, ours was freezing! We had frost in late September even.

 

[Sinatra]

I love some good CO2!

The earth has been warmer...the earth has been colder.

'Nuff said.

Thinking of planting in in door garden, I wouldn't be upset at having more CO2 to push out the CO from the neighboring freeway so they will grow better. As soon as it warms up enough (finger crossed) that is. It's been too cold these last couple years here to get anything started on time.

You are so right on the cold and late springs, also fall has been warmer than average and winter has come late also, the last couple of years, La Nina.

Fall has been cold! Damn cold! We used to have nice Indian Summers, now just a bunch of cold chilly days - this has been the pattern for the last five years.

I want some of this global warming they keep promising us!!!

 

[k2skier]

Thinking of planting in in door garden, I wouldn't be upset at having more CO2 to push out the CO from the neighboring freeway so they will grow better. As soon as it warms up enough (finger crossed) that is. It's been too cold these last couple years here to get anything started on time.

You are so right on the cold and late springs, also fall has been warmer than average and winter has come late also, the last couple of years, La Nina.

Strange, where is this warm fall happening, ours was freezing! We had frost in late September even.

Overall temps have been warmer, not by a lot but 1-1.5F. Winter was over 5 weeks late this year.

 

[k2skier]

Thinking of planting in in door garden, I wouldn't be upset at having more CO2 to push out the CO from the neighboring freeway so they will grow better. As soon as it warms up enough (finger crossed) that is. It's been too cold these last couple years here to get anything started on time.

You are so right on the cold and late springs, also fall has been warmer than average and winter has come late also, the last couple of years, La Nina.

Fall has been cold! Damn cold! We used to have nice Indian Summers, now just a bunch of cold chilly days - this has been the pattern for the last five years.

I want some of this global warming they keep promising us!!!

What part of the country do you live? Some places have had colder than average temps, but most have had warmer than average temps. Anomalies are always going to happen, whether we're in a cooling or warming trend, and 1 or 2 cooling years does not make a trend.

 

[KittenKoder]

Which don't account for wind chill (which is one of the most forgotten factors), nor saturation of water in the air, nothing, it's just a temp, one which can easily be falsified since most people don't have their own thermometers across the globe hooked up to their own computers, they have to take someone elses word for it. Well, personal experience trumps such stats, it's been cold as hell here for too long, period.

 

[KittenKoder]

You are so right on the cold and late springs, also fall has been warmer than average and winter has come late also, the last couple of years, La Nina.

Fall has been cold! Damn cold! We used to have nice Indian Summers, now just a bunch of cold chilly days - this has been the pattern for the last five years.

I want some of this global warming they keep promising us!!!

What part of the country do you live? Some places have had colder than average temps, but most have had warmer than average temps. Anomalies are always going to happen, whether we're in a cooling or warming trend, and 1 or 2 cooling years does not make a trend.

Kind of like our claims that less than .01% of the data does not make environuts accurate ... hmm?

 

[American Horse]

Kitten, when the change is drastic enough, evolution stops for a majority of the life existing at that time. And organisms survive the catastrophe based more on luck than adaption.

Wouldn't drastic change produce numerous isolated cases of survival, and enhance the chances for evolution; for instance the galapagos islands was an isolated place where many lifeforms arrived in different ways over time, and because the less fit died without reproduction many evolutionary paths were followed by those fit to survive?

As at Galapagos, challenges seem to enhance the survival of mutations in isolated populations. Humankind reached its zenith in improvement when it reached the islands of South-East Asia where challenges abounded for survival of the fittest. Where life is easy and challenges are minimized populations grow large and mutations do not operate in the isolation so as to make a difference to the survival of the population of which they are a part.

Being able to find enough food with ease on a daily basis does not do as much for improvement of the species as coping with the problems of fishing, island hopping, navigation, competition for resources, etc. The five digit hand didn't accomplish much beyond enhanced tree climbing skill and grooming in the woods, but on the serenghetti plain competition was fierce, and the hand became capable of many more things like fashioning stone cutting tools, keeping fire, etc.

It seems that a drastic alteration of living conditions in North America, or anywhere else, leading to isolated elements of the human population would lead to some drastic evolutionary opportunities. Consider the megafauna following the extinction of the dinosaurs. Every possible niche was filled by all sorts of variety. Before Homo Sapiens eliminated all competition, there were several hominids, and pithecines competing for food and territory, the last and most recent being Neandertal still surviving in the caves of Spain (where they were probably driven) as recently as 35-40,000 years BP.

I'm not offering an argument here, just an observation.

 

[Old Rocks]

Pretty good observation. However, you are leaving out one big factor. Evolution can only proceed with the material at hand. If a very promising line is wiped out by a catastrophe, whether rapid warming as in the Permian-Triassic extinction, or an impact, there will be no further evolution of that species. Had a random chunk of rock hit Eastern Africa about two million years ago, we would not be having this correspondance.