ocean acidification

[Old Rocks]

An interesting unintended consequence;

Unanticipated consequences of ocean acidification: A noisier ocean at lower pH

Unanticipated consequences of ocean acidification: A noisier ocean at lower pH

Unanticipated consequences of ocean acidification: A noisier ocean at lower pH
Keith C. Hester

Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, Moss Landing, California USA

Edward T. Peltzer

Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, Moss Landing, California USA

William J. Kirkwood

Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, Moss Landing, California USA

Peter G. Brewer

Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, Moss Landing, California USA

We show that ocean acidification from fossil fuel CO2 invasion and reduced ventilation will result in significant decreases in ocean sound absorption for frequencies lower than about 10 kHz. This effect is due to known pH-dependent chemical relaxations in the B(OH)3/B(OH)4 − and HCO3 −/CO3 2− systems. The scale of surface ocean pH change today from the +105 ppmv change in atmospheric CO2 is about −0.12 pH units, resulting in frequency dependant decreases in sound absorption (α = dB/km) exceeding 12%. Under reasonable projections of future fossil fuel CO2 emissions and other sources a pH change of 0.3 units or more can be anticipated by mid-century, resulting in a decrease in α by almost 40%. Ambient noise levels in the ocean within the auditory range critical for environmental, military, and economic interests are set to increase significantly due to the combined effects of decreased absorption and increasing sources from mankind's activities.

Received 4 June 2008; accepted 25 August 2008; published 1 October 2008.

 

[KittenKoder]

*yawn* I love how easy it is to justify interfering with nature.

 

[FactFinder]

So dolphins can find each other at greater distances. Sounds like a good thing.

Did they say if all the new ocean volcanic activity may be the cause of the CO2?

 

[Old Rocks]

Right..if they can't get temperature right I fear that PH is well beyond them.

Given your prior post, I fear the definition of PH is well beyond you.

I have a pool and a garden. Grew up on a farm. I know all I need to about PH. The article claims shell thinning due to carbonization. That is bunk. If the shells on those little squirts are thinning it is because they are similar to limestone and would be a neutralizing agent. The acidification would actually be emulsifying the shells making them thinner. Since these are tiny little creatures the acidity must not be too intense or "alarming"

These creatures are the basis of the ocean food chain. And, in areas such as off the coast of Oregon, we are starting to see acid conditions that are significantly compromising these single celled animals.

New Study Finds Increasing Acidification of Pacific Ocean’s Continental Shelf

Researchers aboard the Wecoma, an Oregon State University research vessel, also discovered that this corrosive, acidified water that is being “upwelled” seasonally from the deeper ocean is probably 50 years old, suggesting that future ocean acidification levels will increase since atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have increased rapidly over the past half century.

Results of the study were published this week in Science Express.

“When the upwelled water was last at the surface, it was exposed to an atmosphere with much lower CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels than today’s,” pointed out Burke Hales, an associate professor in the College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University and an author on the Science study. “The water that will upwell off the coast in future years already is making its undersea trek toward us, with ever-increasing levels of carbon dioxide and acidity.

“The coastal ocean acidification train has left the station,” Hales added, “and there not much we can do to derail it.”

 

[FactFinder]

Given your prior post, I fear the definition of PH is well beyond you.

I have a pool and a garden. Grew up on a farm. I know all I need to about PH. The article claims shell thinning due to carbonization. That is bunk. If the shells on those little squirts are thinning it is because they are similar to limestone and would be a neutralizing agent. The acidification would actually be emulsifying the shells making them thinner. Since these are tiny little creatures the acidity must not be too intense or "alarming"

These creatures are the basis of the ocean food chain. And, in areas such as off the coast of Oregon, we are starting to see acid conditions that are significantly compromising these single celled animals.

New Study Finds Increasing Acidification of Pacific Ocean’s Continental Shelf

Researchers aboard the Wecoma, an Oregon State University research vessel, also discovered that this corrosive, acidified water that is being “upwelled” seasonally from the deeper ocean is probably 50 years old, suggesting that future ocean acidification levels will increase since atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have increased rapidly over the past half century.

Results of the study were published this week in Science Express.

“When the upwelled water was last at the surface, it was exposed to an atmosphere with much lower CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels than today’s,” pointed out Burke Hales, an associate professor in the College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University and an author on the Science study. “The water that will upwell off the coast in future years already is making its undersea trek toward us, with ever-increasing levels of carbon dioxide and acidity.

“The coastal ocean acidification train has left the station,” Hales added, “and there not much we can do to derail it.”

Well maybe they ought ot start using a boat with oars for these studies, heh? Sounds a tad hypocritical.

 

[del]

Given your prior post, I fear the definition of PH is well beyond you.

I have a pool and a garden. Grew up on a farm. I know all I need to about PH. The article claims shell thinning due to carbonization. That is bunk. If the shells on those little squirts are thinning it is because they are similar to limestone and would be a neutralizing agent. The acidification would actually be emulsifying the shells making them thinner. Since these are tiny little creatures the acidity must not be too intense or "alarming"

These creatures are the basis of the ocean food chain. And, in areas such as off the coast of Oregon, we are starting to see acid conditions that are significantly compromising these single celled animals.

New Study Finds Increasing Acidification of Pacific Ocean’s Continental Shelf

Researchers aboard the Wecoma, an Oregon State University research vessel, also discovered that this corrosive, acidified water that is being “upwelled” seasonally from the deeper ocean is probably 50 years old, suggesting that future ocean acidification levels will increase since atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have increased rapidly over the past half century.

Results of the study were published this week in Science Express.

“When the upwelled water was last at the surface, it was exposed to an atmosphere with much lower CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels than today’s,” pointed out Burke Hales, an associate professor in the College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University and an author on the Science study. “The water that will upwell off the coast in future years already is making its undersea trek toward us, with ever-increasing levels of carbon dioxide and acidity.

“The coastal ocean acidification train has left the station,” Hales added, “and there not much we can do to derail it.”

how does one argue with this kind of eloquence?

shakespeare, eat your heart out.

 

[KittenKoder]

I have a pool and a garden. Grew up on a farm. I know all I need to about PH. The article claims shell thinning due to carbonization. That is bunk. If the shells on those little squirts are thinning it is because they are similar to limestone and would be a neutralizing agent. The acidification would actually be emulsifying the shells making them thinner. Since these are tiny little creatures the acidity must not be too intense or "alarming"

These creatures are the basis of the ocean food chain. And, in areas such as off the coast of Oregon, we are starting to see acid conditions that are significantly compromising these single celled animals.

New Study Finds Increasing Acidification of Pacific Ocean’s Continental Shelf

Researchers aboard the Wecoma, an Oregon State University research vessel, also discovered that this corrosive, acidified water that is being “upwelled” seasonally from the deeper ocean is probably 50 years old, suggesting that future ocean acidification levels will increase since atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide have increased rapidly over the past half century.

Results of the study were published this week in Science Express.

“When the upwelled water was last at the surface, it was exposed to an atmosphere with much lower CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels than today’s,” pointed out Burke Hales, an associate professor in the College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University and an author on the Science study. “The water that will upwell off the coast in future years already is making its undersea trek toward us, with ever-increasing levels of carbon dioxide and acidity.

“The coastal ocean acidification train has left the station,” Hales added, “and there not much we can do to derail it.”

Well maybe they ought ot start using a boat with oars for these studies, heh? Sounds a tad hypocritical.

... as opposed to the huge ocean liners that put out how much pollution ..

 

[krotchdog]

asia is dumping billions of tons of toxins, waste from making Photovoltaic cells, so as the greenee meanees push an idea that makes themselves warm at night they are destroying the planet. what is the greenee meanee's idea to help, simple, every time we build a solar farm, it will have to bigger than the last, literally each new farm will be the biggest in the world, causing a rapidly increase in the acidification of the oceans.

dont google it, all you will get are the answers the greenee meanee's pay to be found first. thats right boys and girls, google is not a source, it is simply paid advertising.

next time I will tell you boys and girls about fiber reinforced polymers, that is the technical name of fiberglass. fiber reinforced polymers are made in communist china, a country that has turned back all the progress we made fighting pollution in america. sleep tight boys and girls while the greenee meanee's bigotry destroys the planet

 

[Old Rocks]

asia is dumping billions of tons of toxins, waste from making Photovoltaic cells, so as the greenee meanees push an idea that makes themselves warm at night they are destroying the planet. what is the greenee meanee's idea to help, simple, every time we build a solar farm, it will have to bigger than the last, literally each new farm will be the biggest in the world, causing a rapidly increase in the acidification of the oceans.

dont google it, all you will get are the answers the greenee meanee's pay to be found first. thats right boys and girls, google is not a source, it is simply paid advertising.

next time I will tell you boys and girls about fiber reinforced polymers, that is the technical name of fiberglass. fiber reinforced polymers are made in communist china, a country that has turned back all the progress we made fighting pollution in america. sleep tight boys and girls while the greenee meanee's bigotry destroys the planet

 

[editec]

There are seven billion of us on eht planet thanks to technological advances.

Sadly between those changes in technology, and the fact that seven billion people create one hell of a lot of changes to the nature order, the planets environment, (which changes anyway over time) seems to be changing in ways that will result in things we're only just now beginning to see.

A might long way of saying we're playing demographic/technological Russian roulette.

One of these days that technological chamber is going to have a bullet in it.

Whether it's acidification of the sea, or introducing hormone mimics into our children's bodies, or global warming, or something we can't even imagine, nobody can really say.

And since we lack the political fortitude to stop changing our environment (not sure we could even if we had that fortitude, to be honest) we'll just have to stand by and wait to see the outcome.

I'm becoming something of an environmental fatalist, I think.

 

[KittenKoder]

There are seven billion of us on eht planet thanks to technological advances.

Sadly between those changes in technology, and the fact that seven billion people create one hell of a lot of changes to the nature order, the planets environment, (which changes anyway over time) seems to be changing in ways that will result in things we're only just now beginning to see.

A might long way of saying we're playing demographic/technological Russian roulette.

One of these days that technological chamber is going to have a bullet in it.

Whether it's acidification of the sea, or introducing hormone mimics into our children's bodies, or global warming, or something we can't even imagine, nobody can really say.

And since we lack the political fortitude to stop changing our environment (not sure we could even if we had that fortitude, to be honest) we'll just have to stand by and wait to see the outcome.

I'm becoming something of an environmental fatalist, I think.

No, you are becoming a realist. Wanting to wait and see the end result because of all the conflicting reports is simply part of the realization process. The Russian roulette analogy is spot on though.

 

[Old Rocks]

There are seven billion of us on eht planet thanks to technological advances.

Sadly between those changes in technology, and the fact that seven billion people create one hell of a lot of changes to the nature order, the planets environment, (which changes anyway over time) seems to be changing in ways that will result in things we're only just now beginning to see.

A might long way of saying we're playing demographic/technological Russian roulette.

One of these days that technological chamber is going to have a bullet in it.

Whether it's acidification of the sea, or introducing hormone mimics into our children's bodies, or global warming, or something we can't even imagine, nobody can really say.

And since we lack the political fortitude to stop changing our environment (not sure we could even if we had that fortitude, to be honest) we'll just have to stand by and wait to see the outcome.

I'm becoming something of an environmental fatalist, I think.

There is a technology that has huge potential for each of us. And has the most frightening possiblities if it goes wrong. I first learned of it in a science fiction story called "Blood Music". The technology is Nano-tech.

 

[KittenKoder]

There are seven billion of us on eht planet thanks to technological advances.

Sadly between those changes in technology, and the fact that seven billion people create one hell of a lot of changes to the nature order, the planets environment, (which changes anyway over time) seems to be changing in ways that will result in things we're only just now beginning to see.

A might long way of saying we're playing demographic/technological Russian roulette.

One of these days that technological chamber is going to have a bullet in it.

Whether it's acidification of the sea, or introducing hormone mimics into our children's bodies, or global warming, or something we can't even imagine, nobody can really say.

And since we lack the political fortitude to stop changing our environment (not sure we could even if we had that fortitude, to be honest) we'll just have to stand by and wait to see the outcome.

I'm becoming something of an environmental fatalist, I think.

There is a technology that has huge potential for each of us. And has the most frightening possiblities if it goes wrong. I first learned of it in a science fiction story called "Blood Music". The technology is Nano-tech.

*rae* We are lightyears from achieving any applicable nano-technology, the experiments in this area are still providing little hope. Seriously, do you just look for psuedo-science on purpose? The only thing we have accomplished thus far is making an electric engine, but still no viable way to power it, much less the complexity which would allow it to be of any use. Biotech is advancing further along that nano-tech and holds just as much potential and even less of an impact on the environment. But guess who is suppressing most of the studies in biotech ...

 

[Old Rocks]

Kitten;

*rae* We are lightyears from achieving any applicable nano-technology, the experiments in this area are still providing little hope. Seriously, do you just look for psuedo-science on purpose? The only thing we have accomplished thus far is making an electric engine, but still no viable way to power it, much less the complexity which would allow it to be of any use. Biotech is advancing further along that nano-tech and holds just as much potential and even less of an impact on the environment. But guess who is suppressing most of the studies in biotech ...
__________________
We are using rough nanotech in many of the solar cells at present. And biotech and nanotech will merge as we learn more about each.

 

[KittenKoder]

Did you mess up Old Rocks or do you actually agree with me that much this time?

 

[Old Rocks]

Did you mess up Old Rocks or do you actually agree with me that much this time?

Now don't go and get mushy, Kitten. I neither agree nor disagree with you. Sometimes our thoughts are congruent, sometimes polar opposites.

 

[KittenKoder]

Did you mess up Old Rocks or do you actually agree with me that much this time?

Now don't go and get mushy, Kitten. I neither agree nor disagree with you. Sometimes our thoughts are congruent, sometimes polar opposites.

Me ... mushy ... now that's a stretch ...

Okay, just confused me seeing my post twice without the quote box I didn't notice what you added. The problem with the tech used now, it's still not yet nano, it's micro. Biotech fusing with micro/nanotech could have some very dire effects, it's the same holy grail of technology cybernetics wishes to achieve, luckily still in the realm of sci-fi, more simply, as a species we are not ready yet. Biotech advances though are faster and moving at a much more stable pace, and may be the answer to our survival ultimately.

 

[Old Rocks]

Did you mess up Old Rocks or do you actually agree with me that much this time?

Now don't go and get mushy, Kitten. I neither agree nor disagree with you. Sometimes our thoughts are congruent, sometimes polar opposites.

Me ... mushy ... now that's a stretch ...

Okay, just confused me seeing my post twice without the quote box I didn't notice what you added. The problem with the tech used now, it's still not yet nano, it's micro. Biotech fusing with micro/nanotech could have some very dire effects, it's the same holy grail of technology cybernetics wishes to achieve, luckily still in the realm of sci-fi, more simply, as a species we are not ready yet. Biotech advances though are faster and moving at a much more stable pace, and may be the answer to our survival ultimately.

By the actions of many of our compatriots, there are many of us not capable of acting responsibly with the simple tech of guns and automobiles.

Both Nano and Bio offer many dangers and promises. It is up to us to use the technology wisely. As for your point of technology moving at a more stable pace, it is a good one.

And you are correct about bio tech being possibly the key to our survival. We may have to create something to remove CH4 and CO2 from the atmosphere if the clathrates outgas. A combination of bio-engineering and geo-engineering that I find every bit as frightning as the though of the clathrates outgassing.

 

[KittenKoder]

Now don't go and get mushy, Kitten. I neither agree nor disagree with you. Sometimes our thoughts are congruent, sometimes polar opposites.

Me ... mushy ... now that's a stretch ...

Okay, just confused me seeing my post twice without the quote box I didn't notice what you added. The problem with the tech used now, it's still not yet nano, it's micro. Biotech fusing with micro/nanotech could have some very dire effects, it's the same holy grail of technology cybernetics wishes to achieve, luckily still in the realm of sci-fi, more simply, as a species we are not ready yet. Biotech advances though are faster and moving at a much more stable pace, and may be the answer to our survival ultimately.

By the actions of many of our compatriots, there are many of us not capable of acting responsibly with the simple tech of guns and automobiles.

Both Nano and Bio offer many dangers and promises. It is up to us to use the technology wisely. As for your point of technology moving at a more stable pace, it is a good one.

And you are correct about bio tech being possibly the key to our survival. We may have to create something to remove CH4 and CO2 from the atmosphere if the clathrates outgas. A combination of bio-engineering and geo-engineering that I find every bit as frightning as the though of the clathrates outgassing.

*smile* Now I got you outside the box, must applaud

There are such organisms, those thriving right now, but they are being "attacked" by the green movement, considering them a threat instead of the solution they are. Instead of spending so much effort trying to save species which are going extinct (a law of evolution) and allowing nature to evolve more durable species in their place, instead of trying to push what we "think" nature is suppose to do, perhaps, just perhaps, letting nature take care of itself is likely the best solution. It rights itself no matter what is thrown at it, and life goes on.

 

[Old Rocks]

Catastrophe is not evolution. Evolution is what happens when survivors fill the vacant niches.

Speaking of out of the box thinking, here is a fururist site with many free, and interesting, books.

Anders Transhuman Page