Ocean acidification

Discussion in 'Environment' started by Old Rocks, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    An increasingly evident effect of the excess CO2 that we have put into the atmosphere.

    An Ominous Warning on the Effects of Ocean Acidification by Carl Zimmer: Yale Environment 360

    Effects of Ocean Acidification
    A new study says the seas are acidifying ten times faster today than 55 million years ago when a mass extinction of marine species occurred. And, the study concludes, current changes in ocean chemistry due to the burning of fossil fuels may portend a new wave of die-offs.
    by carl zimmer

    The JOIDES Resolution looks like a bizarre hybrid of an oil rig and a cargo ship. It is, in fact, a research vessel that ocean scientists use to dig up sediment from the sea floor. In 2003, on a voyage to the southeastern Atlantic, scientists aboard the JOIDES Resolution brought up a particularly striking haul.

    They had drilled down into sediment that had formed on the sea floor over the course of millions of years. The oldest sediment in the drill was white. It had been formed by the calcium carbonate shells of single-celled organisms — the same kind of material that makes up the White Cliffs of Dover. But when the scientists examined the sediment that had formed 55 million years ago, the color changed in a geological blink of an eye.

    “In the middle of this white sediment, there’s this big plug of red clay,” says Andy Ridgwell, an earth scientist at the University of Bristol.

    In other words, the vast clouds of shelled creatures in the deep oceans had virtually disappeared. Many scientists now agree that this change was caused by a drastic drop of the ocean’s pH level. The seawater became so corrosive that it ate away at the shells, along with other species with calcium carbonate in their bodies. It took hundreds of thousands of years for the oceans to recover from this crisis, and for the sea floor to turn from red back to white.

    The clay that the crew of the JOIDES Resolution dredged up may be an ominous warning of what the future has in store. By spewing carbon dioxide into the air, we are now once again making the oceans more acidic.

    Today, Ridgwell and Daniela Schmidt, also of the University of Bristol, are publishing a study in the journal Natural Geoscience, comparing what happened in the oceans 55 million years ago to what the oceans are Storing CO2 in the oceans comes at a steep cost: It changes the chemistry of seawater.experiencing today. Their research supports what other researchers have long suspected: The acidification of the ocean today is bigger and faster than anything geologists can find in the fossil record over the past 65 million years. Indeed, its speed and strength — Ridgwell estimate that current ocean acidification is taking place at ten times the rate that preceded the mass extinction 55 million years ago — may spell doom for many marine species, particularly ones that live in the deep ocean.
     
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  2. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    When the base of the food chain is adversely affected, what happens to the rest of the chain?

    Ecosystems under threat from ocean acidification

    ScienceDaily (Mar. 31, 2010) — Acidification of the oceans as a result of increasing levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide could have significant effects on marine ecosystems, according to Michael Maguire presenting at the Society for General Microbiology's spring meeting in Edinburgh.

    Postgraduate researcher Mr Maguire, together with colleagues at Newcastle University, performed experiments in which they simulated ocean acidification as predicted by current trends of carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. The group found that the decrease in ocean pH (increased acidity) resulted in a sharp decline of a biogeochemically important group of bacteria known as the Marine Roseobacter clade. "This is the first time that a highly important bacterial group has been observed to decline in significant numbers with only a modest decrease in pH," said Mr Maguire.
     
  3. gslack
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    gslack Senior Member

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    Old socks, you post crap like this and you know I am going to call you on it....

    First its nonsense.... And here is the real science on it....

    Real science bit #1: 550 million years ago in the Cambrian era there was 20 times as much CO2 in the atmosphere as there is today. And the Cambrian era is the time in which calcite corals and similar lifeforms first achieved algal symbiosis.

    Real science bit #2: 175 million years ago in the Jurassic era there was also 20 times the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and at this time the Aragonite corals came into being. So we have two points in history which had greater CO2 in the atmosphere and at both points we find coral life forms developing rather than dying off...... So either the oceans didn't turn acidic and kill them with 20 times the amount of CO2 in the air, or CO2 has no real measurable impact on PH to the extent if effecting the oceans like they claim. Either way its insane....

    Real science bit #3: The oceans already have 70 times the amount of CO2 that is in the atmosphere. Even if by some freak occurrence all of the CO2 we emit unnaturally were to go straight into the ocean (an impossibility) it would only raise the CO2 concentrations by 1%. Not exactly the scary horror stories you are telling now is it...

    Real science bit #4: CO2 is the 7th largest particle in the oceans by volume that could in theory effect the PH balance. Meaning there are 6 other elements before CO2 which could in theory do the same to the PH. In practice this means the likelihood of CO2 actually causing oceans acidification is minuscule at best even IF the theory is correct. If you want to be real technical on it CO2 would not alter the PH at all but rather buffer other elements which could possibly make some impact on the PH balance. Those impacts are minuscule given the depth and scope of the entire thing.

    Real science bit #5: The ocean rides over vast amounts of alkali. We are talking vast amounts of alkali stone, rock and soil which the oceans stir up and roll over 24/7... Alkali is the acid stopper in case you weren't aware.

    All of this garbage is theoretical crap all designed to scare you... Its about as much to do with real science as the Pope has to do with Las Vegas nightlife...

    oh please ask me for my evidence again..... LOL, I love it when you try and play climatologist to save your azz....
     
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  4. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    Old Rocks, doesn't the dramatic change in ocean ph 55 million years ago throw the whole notion of Henry Ford "inventing" mass production of the internal combustion engine into question?

    Doesn't this mean the SUV is really 55 million years old?
     
  5. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    "It took hundreds of thousands of years for the oceans to recover from this crisis, and for the sea floor to turn from red back to white."

    I laughed so hard I hurt myself...look at they hysterical words they use "recover" "crisis" LOL

    "The clay that the crew of the JOIDES Resolution dredged up may be an ominous warning of what the future has in store. By spewing carbon dioxide into the air, we are now once again making the oceans more acidic."

    Ohhhhh, I'm so a-scared!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  6. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    They crapped out on the "Hockey Stick Tree Rings of Death" so now changes from 55MYA are harbingers of doom.
     
  7. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    So are the Wamers now saying that the reason there is no demonstrable Global Warming is because the ocean is eating the Deadly Glacier Eating CO2 Spaghetti Monster?

    So is there really more that 380PPM CO2, but the ocean eats it or are we pumping CO2 directly into the oceans?

    So hard to keep all the stories straight
     
  8. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    "To see how ocean acidification is going to affect life in the ocean, scientists have run laboratory experiments in which they rear organisms at different pH levels."

    Hey! I've got a great idea! Maybe they can do laboratory experiments in which they compare atmospheric "changes" with varying amounts of CO2 from 280PPM up to 600PPM!
     
  9. konradv
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    konradv Gold Member

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    So either the oceans didn't turn acidic and kill them with 20 times the amount of CO2 in the air, or CO2 has no real measurable impact on PH to the extent if effecting the oceans like they claim. Either way its insane....
    ------------------------------------

    This is an example of "false choice" and a reason why taking examples from millions of years ago, isn't always the logical thing to do. The corals of the past evolved during a time of high CO2 and therefore would be able to tolerate lower pH levels. Modern corals evolved during a time of lower CO2 and don't seem to tolerate an acidic environment as well. You can't use the past as a template for the future, if underlying conditions have changed.
     
  10. gslack
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    gslack Senior Member

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    LOL and this is an example of dancing even after the music has stopped.....

    Well if I can't use the past as a a template than neither can your side if we use your own logic....

    Perhaps our modern planet has evolved and adapted to absorb more CO2? Perhaps the entire theory of GHG's and their effects are overstated? Perhaps the CO2 millions of years ago was actually a bunch of magic beans which grew into killer spores that killed all the dinosaurs?

    Freaking asinine argument man... Seriously, the very word calcite should have been a clue... Clacite and aragonite are both forms of calcium carbonite. Ca CO3 ...

    Here is some info on them...

    LOL I love that last part especially..... lets repeat that oh so embarrassing bit of science shall we? LOL

    Dam that was a severe smackdown now wasn't it.......:lol:

    SOOOOO, calcite is especially susceptible to acidity and PH factors? LOL so the whole claim you just made about them evolving in such conditions and resistant to CO2 induced acidification is one more example of BS posing as science..... Wow what an embarrassment... :lol::lol:
     
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