Obomny Care

[WatertheTree]

Im not to positive on the situation, but word on the street is Obama care is virtually the same things as Romney care.

But all this guy does is complain and bitch about it.

Flip floppers are so confusing, you never know what they mean, or what they think, or anything about them. Except ofcourse what they look like.

Hannity and Santoroum discuss Obamny care. Also endorses Ron Paul.

http://www.hannity.com/videos/?uri=channels/400391/1515773

 

[Greenbeard]

It wasn't all that long ago that Obama's approach was the conservative Republican approach to expanding health insurance coverage: more competitive individual marketplaces, changes to the tax code to help low income people buy coverage, an individual mandate to make the marketplaces work. Indeed, it was developed by the rightwing Heritage Foundation.

Romney isn't some anomaly; the right hadn't turned on these ideas back when Massachusetts passed its law. The "Tea Party Senator" Jim DeMint endorsed Romney last go around and said of his health reform law: "That’s something that I think we should do for the whole country."

That said, it seems pretty clear Romney is more of a technocrat who will do what it takes to solve problems than an ideologue.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, let me break this stuff down for you.

The thing was, when it was first proposed, RomneyCare was considered a great alternative to single payer health care, which is pretty much what the rest of the industrialized world does. (They also pay a lot less as a share of GDP and live longer, have a lower infant mortality rate, etc.)

RomneyCare is essentially what Big insurance wants- a government subsidy/mandate to increase the size of the donor pool. Insurance only really works if a lot of people who never file claims pay in. So they were all for it when he proposed it.

If left to their own druthers, ObamaCare wouldn't have looked like RomneyCare. It would look a lot more like the Canadian model, or perhaps the German model. The House version was a lot closer to that then the Senate Version was.

But when Scott Walker got Ted Kennedy's seat, that made it impossible for any conferance version to get approved. So the only option they had was for the House to accept the Senate Version, which looked like RomneyCare because of all the comprimises Senate Democrats made to big insurance.

All of this is lost on your average Tea Partier, who just hates all government.

The thing is, in the long run, private health insurance is unsustainable. With medical inflation running four times regular inflation, and more and more younger people opting out of health insurance, they simply can't make any money at it.

The "individual mandate" probably buys private insurance some time, but it's almost without a doubt unconstitutional. ObamaCare (or RomneyCare) without an individual mandate will just increase the decline, because you can't deny "pre-existing conditions" anymore. People won't have a need to buy insurance unless they actually get sick. It's like letting people buy auto insurance AFTER they've had an accident.

The failure of Obama/RomneyCare is that it doesn't address the real problems- an aging population, medical inflation at 4 times the regular rate, procedures being ordered defensively to prevent lawsuits, and so on.

 

[JoeB131]

It wasn't all that long ago that Obama's approach was the conservative Republican approach to expanding health insurance coverage: more competitive individual marketplaces, changes to the tax code to help low income people buy coverage, an individual mandate to make the marketplaces work. Indeed, it was developed by the rightwing Heritage Foundation.

Romney isn't some anomaly; the right hadn't turned on these ideas back when Massachusetts passed its law. The "Tea Party Senator" Jim DeMint endorsed Romney last go around and said of his health reform law: "That’s something that I think we should do for the whole country."

That said, it seems pretty clear Romney is more of a technocrat who will do what it takes to solve problems than an ideologue.

I think the word for that is "weasal who will say whatever he has to in order to get votes".

If Romney thinks that his approach was the best way, he shouldn't be running away from it the way his cult ran away from it's polygamist past.

He should be out there defending it and commending Obama for adopting it nationally.

Instead, his position is, "My plan was awesome, but I wont inflict my awesome plan on the country. Really. I promise. I'll even edit my book where I said we should do that."

The problem with ObamaCare/RomneyCare is that it was seeing the number of uninsured as the problem, which it really isn't. The problem is that for the insured, prices are skyrocketing while the quality of care given is decreasing.

 

[California Girl]

When did Romney bring in a FEDERAL healthcare system?

Never.

States have the right to do it, the federal government does not. That this is over the intellectual paygrade of many - on both sides - is shameful.

 

[Greenbeard]

The problem with ObamaCare/RomneyCare is that it was seeing the number of uninsured as the problem, which it really isn't. The problem is that for the insured, prices are skyrocketing while the quality of care given is decreasing.

That's where the Massachusetts reforms deviate from the Affordable Care Act. The Massachusetts reforms correspond to part of Title I of the ACA's ten titles ("Quality, Affordable Health Care for All Americans," i.e. insurance market reform). The rest of the federal law is focused on quality improvement and cost control.

When did Romney bring in a FEDERAL healthcare system?

Is this a trick question? Right on his current campaign issues page. For example:

Focus federal regulation of health care on making markets work
Mitt Romney believes that the federal regulation of health care should be limited and focused. Obamacare takes an opposite approach and uses federal regulation in an all-encompassing manner. Mitt will use limited federal regulation to correct common failures in insurance markets, while eliminating counterproductive federal rules. For example, individuals who are continuously covered for a specified period of time may not be denied access to insurance because of pre-existing conditions. Mitt also believes that individuals should be allowed to purchase insurance across state lines, free from costly state benefit requirements. Finally, individuals and small businesses should be allowed to form purchasing pools to lower insurance costs and improve choice.

Reform the broken medical liability system [read: federalization of tort law]
The current medical liability system encourages defensive medicine and drives up health care costs. To address these problems, Mitt Romney will cap non-economic damages in medical malpractice litigation. He also believes in providing innovation grants to states for additional medical liability reforms, such as alternative dispute resolution or health care courts.

 

[JoeB131]

When did Romney bring in a FEDERAL healthcare system?

Never.

States have the right to do it, the federal government does not. That this is over the intellectual paygrade of many - on both sides - is shameful.

Mitt Romney- "My Plan is TOTALLY AWESOME and I won't inflict it on the country! Did I mention I'm wearing magic underpants!"

 

[JoeB131]

The problem with ObamaCare/RomneyCare is that it was seeing the number of uninsured as the problem, which it really isn't. The problem is that for the insured, prices are skyrocketing while the quality of care given is decreasing.

That's where the Massachusetts reforms deviate from the Affordable Care Act. The Massachusetts reforms correspond to part of Title I of the ACA's ten titles ("Quality, Affordable Health Care for All Americans," i.e. insurance market reform). The rest of the federal law is focused on quality improvement and cost control.

But it won't work, that's the problem.

Yes, it gets rid of redaction and disallowing for pre-existing conditions, but it really does nothing to decrease medical inflation. Again, company I work for is going to increase its health care payments by 14% next year. Where are those cost savings again?

The thing is, we have a model that is half private and half public, and it doesn't work. It should be all one way or the other.

A complete private system where market forces drive prices down, but some people will die because they aren't considered economically valuable enough to keep alive.

Or a completely public system that covers everyone, but draws lines at how far it will go.

We have one that does both, that runs up huge costs in the gaps like people using emergency rooms as their primary care giver when they could get treated at clinics much cheaper.

 

[California Girl]

When did Romney bring in a FEDERAL healthcare system?

Never.

States have the right to do it, the federal government does not. That this is over the intellectual paygrade of many - on both sides - is shameful.

Mitt Romney- "My Plan is TOTALLY AWESOME and I won't inflict it on the country! Did I mention I'm wearing magic underpants!"

Got a link to that quote or is it yet more bullshit from you?

 

[JoeB131]

When did Romney bring in a FEDERAL healthcare system?

Never.

States have the right to do it, the federal government does not. That this is over the intellectual paygrade of many - on both sides - is shameful.

Mitt Romney- "My Plan is TOTALLY AWESOME and I won't inflict it on the country! Did I mention I'm wearing magic underpants!"

Got a link to that quote or is it yet more bullshit from you?

Sure I do. And that's a real picture, too. get a clue, will ya?

Fact is, Romney did call his plan a model for the country. Until Obama actually hired his guys to actually implement it as the model for the country.

Fact Checking Tonight's GOP Debate | Democrats.org

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...-to-remove-line-about-national-health-reform/

After the Republican presidential debate Thursday night, a senior adviser to Mitt Romney acknowledged that a line about spreading health care reform throughout the country was changed in the paperback version of Romney’s book “No Apology.”

Texas Gov. Rick Perry said during the Florida debate that Romney took out the single line that suggested the Massachusetts health reform law could be applied to the country. The line that is removed in the paperback version reads, “We can accomplish the same thing for everyone in the country.”

 

[Navy1960]

Eisenhower:

MEETING THE COSTS OF MEDICAL CARE

For most Americans, insurance--private, voluntary insurance-provides a sound and effective method of meeting unexpected hazards which may be beyond the capacity of the individual to bear. Risk sharing through group action is in the best tradition of vigorous and imaginative American enterprise.

The Government should cooperate with, and encourage, private carriers in the improvement of health insurance. Moreover, a great many people who are not now covered can be given its protection, particularly in rural areas where group enrollment is at present difficult.

Existing health insurance can also be improved by expanding the scope of the benefits provided. Not all private expenditures for medical care can or should be covered by insurance; nevertheless, many policies offered today are too limited in scope. They are principally for hospitalized illness and for relatively short periods of time.

I recommend, consequently, the establishment of a Federal health reinsurance service to encourage private health insurance organizations in offering broader benefits to insured individuals and families and coverage to more people.
Dwight D. Eisenhower: Special Message to the Congress Recommending a Health Program.

Nixon;

Without adequate health care, no one can make full use of his or her talents and opportunities. It is thus just as important that economic, racial and social barriers not stand in the way of good health care as it is to eliminate those barriers to a good education and a good job.

Three years ago, I proposed a major health insurance program to the Congress, seeking to guarantee adequate financing of health care on a nationwide basis. That proposal generated widespread discussion and useful debate. But no legislation reached my desk.
Nixon's Plan For Health Reform, In His Own Words - Kaiser Health News

Ford;

Today I am proposing to the Congress legislation that addresses these problems. I am asking Congress to enact the Financial Assistance for Health Care Act which will consolidate Medicaid and 15 categorical Federal health programs into a $10 billion block grant to the States. t am proposing that future Federal funding for this new program

Gerald R. Ford: Special Message to the Congress Proposing Health Care Reform Legislation


It's pretty clear that Mitt Romney's proposal for Mass. is not a new idea, and one that has been supported by more than a few Republicans in the past. One thing worth mentioning here is the fact that Mass. is well within it's rights to devise ANY program for it's citizens they wish as long as the citizens approve of it, and I rather suspect that the model of a state crafting it's own solution is more inline with the constitution than perhaps a one size fits all one.