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I lived in Istanbul between 2000-2004, in Kagithane Nurtepe. I traveled to Iraq, Iran, and Syria to see my Muslim wfe's family.If I could cite Egyptian, Yemeni, and Libyan newspapers that dispute this notion that America's invasion of Iraq in no way inspired the latest revolutions....would it be worth my time?....or would you just rather believe what the American right thinks about it?
And you know? You are probably not going to find it. Not many pro-arab commentators that want to keep working in the Middle East are going to print anything like that.
And it's a very complicated culture. Anyone who's spend any time there would know that. I've been to Turkey..and have had several friends that went to Iran and Egypt. I experienced the same things they did..even though they are all very different countries. The people were warm and welcoming. They secretly praised America.
Have you done any traveling in the region?
Heck..did you read any of the emails leaked by Manning? They confirm this stuff.
I've read many Yemeni and Egyptian newspapers on line, and they are filled with editorials that DO not give any credit to the US for the uprisings.
I can try to track them down again...if you'reinterested.
I am sure the diplomacy is in the "give them enough rope" phase.
Like I said before..it's not going to be pretty. But I am reasonably optimistic about Egypt.
Libya? Hmmm..
I don't know I think the Egyptians are letting their hate for Israel effect their judgement, they need to get their act together and clamp down on that border.
I am scared for Isreal as well.
Like I said before..it's not going to be pretty. But I am reasonably optimistic about Egypt.
Libya? Hmmm..
I don't know I think the Egyptians are letting their hate for Israel effect their judgement, they need to get their act together and clamp down on that border.
Egypt actually has a good deal of bureaucracy set up..and a big military machine..which gets it's funding from the US.
I am sure the diplomacy is in the "give them enough rope" phase.
I don't know I think the Egyptians are letting their hate for Israel effect their judgement, they need to get their act together and clamp down on that border.
I am scared for Isreal as well.
At this point if all hell breaks loose in Israel it will have reprecussions for us as well.
I am scared for Isreal as well.
At this point if all hell breaks loose in Israel it will have reprecussions for us as well.
Thats my biggest concern
Bottom line, I am concerned about us, The U.S.
Well merheba...nassilsin! to you!.......I lived in Istanbul between 2000-2004, in Kagithane Nurtepe. I traveled to Iraq, Iran, and Syria to see my Muslim wfe's family.And you know? You are probably not going to find it. Not many pro-arab commentators that want to keep working in the Middle East are going to print anything like that.
And it's a very complicated culture. Anyone who's spend any time there would know that. I've been to Turkey..and have had several friends that went to Iran and Egypt. I experienced the same things they did..even though they are all very different countries. The people were warm and welcoming. They secretly praised America.
Have you done any traveling in the region?
Heck..did you read any of the emails leaked by Manning? They confirm this stuff.
I've read many Yemeni and Egyptian newspapers on line, and they are filled with editorials that DO not give any credit to the US for the uprisings.
I can try to track them down again...if you'reinterested.
Really?
I'm surprised. I spend a couple of weeks in Istanbul and sussed this stuff out on my own.
And I don't think anyone was giving me the "tourist shine" because a carpet merchant let me know how much he hated George W. Bush. But he still loved Americans.
Man....I almost forgot what it was like reading Hurriyet.....they are still going on and on about the PKK.
That's because the PKK keeps going on and on.Man....I almost forgot what it was like reading Hurriyet.....they are still going on and on about the PKK.
Well merheba...nassilsin! to you!.......I lived in Istanbul between 2000-2004, in Kagithane Nurtepe. I traveled to Iraq, Iran, and Syria to see my Muslim wfe's family.
I've read many Yemeni and Egyptian newspapers on line, and they are filled with editorials that DO not give any credit to the US for the uprisings.
I can try to track them down again...if you'reinterested.
Really?
I'm surprised. I spend a couple of weeks in Istanbul and sussed this stuff out on my own.
And I don't think anyone was giving me the "tourist shine" because a carpet merchant let me know how much he hated George W. Bush. But he still loved Americans.
Was that carpet merchant at the grand bizarre or down by the Blue Mosque? those guys are sharp sharks as I used to call them.
...it depends on when you were in Istanbul concerning how they feel.
The thing I know, and you must have learned, is that hospitality is king in Turkey. If they hate you, you won't know it. I used to look at the pictures I brought back of family gatherings, and I was all lit up on Raki, and maybe dancing with my Dede (grandpa in law), but I'd notice people in the background giving me suspicious and furtive looks. I always remember nothing but smiles.
From 2000-2004....Turks I knew loved Clinton still, and liked Baba Bush, but thought W was an idiot. I might have had something to do with that too. But the big eye opener was Iran and Syria. Same politeness...but they were more upfront, and had some pretty cray ideas...like 911 never happened, etc.. At any rate...while everyone everywhere was apologetic for 911, they all thought Iraq to be excessive.
I'm divorced now...and my middle eastern former in laws send me hatefull emails still,so I can't just email one to find out. Take a look at some of the online newspapers from the region...I'll share any I find, and I promise I won't only look for ones that only support my assertions.
Well at least if Libya goes to hell it won't be for US Soldiers fighting for their lives on the streets of Tripoli.
Well at least if Libya goes to hell it won't be for US Soldiers fighting for their lives on the streets of Tripoli.
True, but I think it's too early to scream victory when we don't know who or what is to follow!
We tried that at first to make traveling to Iran and Syria easier...but her Imam said that converting just to get married was an unsound reason to convert. She isn't Sunni, she's an Alevi. They're like the Presbyterians of the Muslim world. But Turkey is secular from a marriage standpoint so legally I din't have to.Well merheba...nassilsin! to you!.......Really?
I'm surprised. I spend a couple of weeks in Istanbul and sussed this stuff out on my own.
And I don't think anyone was giving me the "tourist shine" because a carpet merchant let me know how much he hated George W. Bush. But he still loved Americans.
Was that carpet merchant at the grand bizarre or down by the Blue Mosque? those guys are sharp sharks as I used to call them.
...it depends on when you were in Istanbul concerning how they feel.
The thing I know, and you must have learned, is that hospitality is king in Turkey. If they hate you, you won't know it. I used to look at the pictures I brought back of family gatherings, and I was all lit up on Raki, and maybe dancing with my Dede (grandpa in law), but I'd notice people in the background giving me suspicious and furtive looks. I always remember nothing but smiles.
From 2000-2004....Turks I knew loved Clinton still, and liked Baba Bush, but thought W was an idiot. I might have had something to do with that too. But the big eye opener was Iran and Syria. Same politeness...but they were more upfront, and had some pretty cray ideas...like 911 never happened, etc.. At any rate...while everyone everywhere was apologetic for 911, they all thought Iraq to be excessive.
I'm divorced now...and my middle eastern former in laws send me hatefull emails still,so I can't just email one to find out. Take a look at some of the online newspapers from the region...I'll share any I find, and I promise I won't only look for ones that only support my assertions.
Cool story, did you have to convert to Islam to marry your ex?
My ex wife's family was always being accused of being associated with the PKK because they lived around Lake Van, and had relatives over the Iraqi border. From my point of view...the PKK and the Turks are implacable enemies, and both sides have acted both shamelessly and justly. It's really complicated.That's because the PKK keeps going on and on.Man....I almost forgot what it was like reading Hurriyet.....they are still going on and on about the PKK.
We tried that at first to make traveling to Iran and Syria easier...but her Imam said that converting just to get married was an unsound reason to convert. She isn't Sunni, she's an Alevi. They're like the Presbyterians of the Muslim world. But Turkey is secular from a marriage standpoint so legally I din't have to.Well merheba...nassilsin! to you!.......
Was that carpet merchant at the grand bizarre or down by the Blue Mosque? those guys are sharp sharks as I used to call them.
...it depends on when you were in Istanbul concerning how they feel.
The thing I know, and you must have learned, is that hospitality is king in Turkey. If they hate you, you won't know it. I used to look at the pictures I brought back of family gatherings, and I was all lit up on Raki, and maybe dancing with my Dede (grandpa in law), but I'd notice people in the background giving me suspicious and furtive looks. I always remember nothing but smiles.
From 2000-2004....Turks I knew loved Clinton still, and liked Baba Bush, but thought W was an idiot. I might have had something to do with that too. But the big eye opener was Iran and Syria. Same politeness...but they were more upfront, and had some pretty cray ideas...like 911 never happened, etc.. At any rate...while everyone everywhere was apologetic for 911, they all thought Iraq to be excessive.
I'm divorced now...and my middle eastern former in laws send me hatefull emails still,so I can't just email one to find out. Take a look at some of the online newspapers from the region...I'll share any I find, and I promise I won't only look for ones that only support my assertions.
Cool story, did you have to convert to Islam to marry your ex?
Oh absolutely....the Turks, Lebanese, and some Damascus Syrians are pretty moderate. It's the Arab penninsula folks and Afgani/Pakis that the moderates in the region want nothing to do with. It's very similar to how a New Yorker would view a southern Baptist KKK member.We tried that at first to make traveling to Iran and Syria easier...but her Imam said that converting just to get married was an unsound reason to convert. She isn't Sunni, she's an Alevi. They're like the Presbyterians of the Muslim world. But Turkey is secular from a marriage standpoint so legally I din't have to.Cool story, did you have to convert to Islam to marry your ex?
Ah so thats a little different from the Arab world, if you had married a Kuwaiti woman or Bahraini for example it would have been damn near mandatory unless she wasn't a Muslim.
Oh absolutely....the Turks, Lebanese, and some Damascus Syrians are pretty moderate. It's the Arab penninsula folks and Afgani/Pakis that the moderates in the region want nothing to do with. It's very similar to how a New Yorker would view a southern Baptist KKK member.We tried that at first to make traveling to Iran and Syria easier...but her Imam said that converting just to get married was an unsound reason to convert. She isn't Sunni, she's an Alevi. They're like the Presbyterians of the Muslim world. But Turkey is secular from a marriage standpoint so legally I din't have to.
Ah so thats a little different from the Arab world, if you had married a Kuwaiti woman or Bahraini for example it would have been damn near mandatory unless she wasn't a Muslim.
Iran was the closest I came to being harmed for being an American. And if I didn't have my wife and marriage license with me at all times...I'd have wound up like those two hikers.
That was the story...but she had many Kurdish relatives, and they all came from eastern Turkey to live in Istanbul in the 1050's. Her maiden name was Tunc. When I would ask details, my Dede would say he didn't know.Was your ex-Wife an ethnic Turk?
