Obama's ideal of racial relations

[midcan5]

Dear Lord, please make this thread end and while you're at it remove Reverend Wright from the white man's mind as he is so obsessed with the reverend he is forgetting all about important issues like jobs, healthcare, the war, the environment, and even taxes - Lord I never thought I'd see that day. Thank you Lord, and if you can fit it in can you help me with that lottery ticket I am buying tomorrow. Thanks and hope all is well with you, I'm doing OK by the way. Later, midcan5.

 

[AllieBaba]

Racism is a pretty important topic. The left should know, they're the ones who keep carping on how racist we are, and how we need to eradicate it.

Apparently, we only need to pay attention to racism if it's white folks being racist, or colored people claiming to be victims.

I guess it's not about racism. It's about who isn't ALLOWED to be racist. For some reason whites aren't allowed to be racist, but black preachers get to.

Makes perfect loony sense.

 

[Larkinn]

Racism is a pretty important topic. The left should know, they're the ones who keep carping on how racist we are, and how we need to eradicate it.

Apparently, we only need to pay attention to racism if it's white folks being racist, or colored people claiming to be victims.

I guess it's not about racism. It's about who isn't ALLOWED to be racist. For some reason whites aren't allowed to be racist, but black preachers get to.

Makes perfect loony sense.

Would you blame a Jew in 1945 for hating the Germans?

Is it ok? No. Is it understandable? Yes. Is it on the same level as anti-semitism? No.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Would you blame a Jew in 1945 for hating the Germans?

Is it ok? No. Is it understandable? Yes. Is it on the same level as anti-semitism? No.

Ahh so now us whiteys are the same as Nazi Germans, How many millions of blacks did we cart off to the camps again? And can you point out the ovens for me.

Why is it when we racist whites use Hitler or Nazis we are being evil and bad, but you good liberals can trot them out anytime you want?

 

[ReillyT]

Ahh so now us whiteys are the same as Nazi Germans, How many millions of blacks did we cart off to the camps again? And can you point out the ovens for me.

Why is it when we racist whites use Hitler or Nazis we are being evil and bad, but you good liberals can trot them out anytime you want?

How many did white people cart off to camps? Well, if you consider plantation "camp," then we carted off between 10 and 12 million.

Actually, the trans-atlantic slave trade may have been responsible for the deaths of up to 20 million Africans, although the number might be as low as 8 million. I guess we actually topped the Nazis and we haven't even discussed the 200 years of actual slavery, and subsequent lynchings and Jim Crow. Go White People!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#Human_toll

Of course, that wasn't really his point, was it you silly buffoon?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How many did white people cart off to camps? Well, if you consider plantation "camp," then we carted off between 10 and 12 million.

Actually, the trans-atlantic slave trade may have been responsible for the deaths of up to 20 million Africans, although the number might be as low as 8 million. I guess we actually topped the Nazis and we haven't even discussed the 200 years of actual slavery, and subsequent lynchings and Jim Crow. Go White People!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#Human_toll

Of course, that wasn't really his point, was it you silly buffoon?

Ya once again you idiot, the slave trade was legally over almost 200 years ago and US slavery ended over 143 years ago. I am not responsible for it, NO ONE ALIVE today is responsible for it. Using it as a reason to claim a black man gets a pass on racism is as STUPID as it comes. Claiming blacks should hate whites just like jews hated Germans after WW2 is also IGNORANT as hell.

Lynchings pretty much ended over 40 years ago as well. No one I now ever participated in one. Again not a reason to claim a black man can be given a pass for racism.

Look it is simple DUMB SHIT, either the laws and the policies and the rules and the rights apply to everyone, or they are meaningless. And yes, that means when those things went on even whites were not protected because the laws were not enforced. Or aren't you aware that the KKK also went after Irish, Catholic and poor white trash, to name a few.

And if we give black men a pass for racism because they were slaves over 143 years ago, then when did the Irish, the Jews and all the other races and individual groups that were once slaves reach the magic number of years since it happened that they do not count any more? JUST CURIOUS.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How many did white people cart off to camps? Well, if you consider plantation "camp," then we carted off between 10 and 12 million.

Actually, the trans-atlantic slave trade may have been responsible for the deaths of up to 20 million Africans, although the number might be as low as 8 million. I guess we actually topped the Nazis and we haven't even discussed the 200 years of actual slavery, and subsequent lynchings and Jim Crow. Go White People!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#Human_toll

Of course, that wasn't really his point, was it you silly buffoon?

And if you knew history you would know that Gypsy's and a whole laundry list of Europeans had the same fate in the Nazi death camps as the Jews. I believe I read somewhere that 10 to 12 million people died in the camps as well as over 20 MILLION Russian civilians. The Jews only claim 6 million of those.

 

[Larkinn]

Ahh so now us whiteys are the same as Nazi Germans, How many millions of blacks did we cart off to the camps again? And can you point out the ovens for me.

When did I say we were the same as Nazi Germans? I didn't. I asked a simple question which you refuse to answer.

Here goes again. Do try and be honest this time.

Would you blame a Jew in 1945 for hating the Germans?

Why is it when we racist whites use Hitler or Nazis we are being evil and bad, but you good liberals can trot them out anytime you want?

I'm not calling whites/Republicans/anyone Nazis, nor am I even making the comparison. I merely mentioned them in the context of a question I asked you, which you refused to answer.

So...yes or no RGS?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When did I say we were the same as Nazi Germans? I didn't. I asked a simple question which you refuse to answer.

Here goes again. Do try and be honest this time.

Would you blame a Jew in 1945 for hating the Germans?



I'm not calling whites/Republicans/anyone Nazis, nor am I even making the comparison. I merely mentioned them in the context of a question I asked you, which you refused to answer.

So...yes or no RGS?

The answer is obviously no. Once again for the retarded amongst us. Blacks living today were NEVER slaves. And most of them have no first hand knowledge of Lynchings either. They have grown up in a world where they are given preferential treatment at every turn and yet they still get arrested in large percent than any other racial group. WHY? Because Liberals have spent the last 40 years teaching them they are victims and are owed something for nothing.

Personally if I were black I would hate the Democratic party and all the supposed Liberal black leaders that are anything but.

 

[ReillyT]

Ya once again you idiot,

More name calling. I thought you were above all that.

the slave trade was legally over almost 200 years ago and US slavery ended over 143 years ago. I am not responsible for it, NO ONE ALIVE today is responsible for it. Using it as a reason to claim a black man gets a pass on racism is as STUPID as it comes. Claiming blacks should hate whites just like jews hated Germans after WW2 is also IGNORANT as hell.

Lynchings pretty much ended over 40 years ago as well. No one I now ever participated in one. Again not a reason to claim a black man can be given a pass for racism.

Look it is simple DUMB SHIT, either the laws and the policies and the rules and the rights apply to everyone, or they are meaningless. And yes, that means when those things went on even whites were not protected because the laws were not enforced. Or aren't you aware that the KKK also went after Irish, Catholic and poor white trash, to name a few.

And if we give black men a pass for racism because they were slaves over 143 years ago, then when did the Irish, the Jews and all the other races and individual groups that were once slaves reach the magic number of years since it happened that they do not count any more? JUST CURIOUS.

It is true that both the slave trade and slavery ended many years ago. Segregation ended not so long ago. Racism against blacks continues to this day. Do you think that slavery, Jim Crow and segregation might have something to do with why African Americans are still economically deprived as a class? Just maybe? You think they still might be a little bitter about that? Does that seem unreasonable to you?

It is amazing how much more quickly oppressors can "heal" from the wounds of oppression than the oppressed.

 

[ReillyT]

They have grown up in a world where they are given preferential treatment at every turn

Ahh... yes... if only we all could be so lucky to have been born black. They have it so good.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

More name calling. I thought you were above all that.



It is true that both the slave trade and slavery ended many years ago. Segregation ended not so long ago. Racism against blacks continues to this day. Do you think that slavery, Jim Crow and segregation might have something to do with why African Americans are still economically deprived as a class? Just maybe? You think they still might be a little bitter about that? Does that seem unreasonable to you?

It is amazing how much more quickly oppressors can "heal" from the wounds of oppression than the oppressed.

Sorry but unlike you liberal whiners, I do not live with guilt over being white. I came from a poor family and am barely middle class now. Is there some program I can sign on to so I can blame all my woes and troubles on someone else?

 

[Larkinn]

The answer is obviously no.

So, then you admit that a group that is marginalized, discriminated against, killed, etc, etc, can justifiably (not acceptably...justifiably) have strong feelings against those who persecuted them?

Once again for the retarded amongst us. Blacks living today were NEVER slaves.

Thanks for pointing that out. We all really thought that.

And most of them have no first hand knowledge of Lynchings either.

Wright grew up in the civil rights era. He grew up during Jim Crow. He grew up when dogs and firefighters and police were sicced on blacks because they sat in the wrong place. No, not the holocaust nor anything similar. But once you acknowledge that being treated like utter and complete shit by a race of people can cause you to have some dislike for that race, then you can realize how blacks, especially those who grew up during the civil rights era, can feel that way.

They have grown up in a world where they are given preferential treatment at every turn and yet they still get arrested in large percent than any other racial group.

You are a fucking idiot. Tell me where the blacks in Compton get preferential treatment? Tell me where the blacks in the Bronx get preferential treatment? Tell me how worrying that your kid will get shot every day, or growing up worrying that you will get shot, somehow gives you a chance for a so much better life?

Go to your local black neighborhood. Look at the conditions people live in, and grow up in. Sure if they can make it out of that hellhole they get preferential treatment in only a FEW areas . Cheers. Its like "well sure we'll give you more money than anyone else if you go to college...but first you have to move to Iraq and grow up there". Would you take that deal RGS? Would you want your kids to take that deal?

WHY? Because Liberals have spent the last 40 years teaching them they are victims and are owed something for nothing.

Right, because blacks are too stupid to learn anything on their own, right? They just rely on what the white massa teaches them.

Personally if I were black I would hate the Democratic party and all the supposed Liberal black leaders that are anything but.

If you were black you would have experienced racism and would have a profoundly different view of the world.

 

[ReillyT]

Sorry but unlike you liberal whiners, I do not live with guilt over being white.

I am so happy for you.

I came from a poor family and am barely middle class now.

I wonder why you haven't been more successful????

Is there some program I can sign on to so I can blame all my woes and troubles on someone else?

You can blame your woes and troubles on anyone you like.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So, then you admit that a group that is marginalized, discriminated against, killed, etc, etc, can justifiably (not acceptably...justifiably) have strong feelings against those who persecuted them?



Thanks for pointing that out. We all really thought that.



Wright grew up in the civil rights era. He grew up during Jim Crow. He grew up when dogs and firefighters and police were sicced on blacks because they sat in the wrong place. No, not the holocaust nor anything similar. But once you acknowledge that being treated like utter and complete shit by a race of people can cause you to have some dislike for that race, then you can realize how blacks, especially those who grew up during the civil rights era, can feel that way.



You are a fucking idiot. Tell me where the blacks in Compton get preferential treatment? Tell me where the blacks in the Bronx get preferential treatment? Tell me how worrying that your kid will get shot every day, or growing up worrying that you will get shot, somehow gives you a chance for a so much better life?

Go to your local black neighborhood. Look at the conditions people live in, and grow up in. Sure if they can make it out of that hellhole they get preferential treatment in only a FEW areas . Cheers. Its like "well sure we'll give you more money than anyone else if you go to college...but first you have to move to Iraq and grow up there". Would you take that deal RGS? Would you want your kids to take that deal?



Right, because blacks are too stupid to learn anything on their own, right? They just rely on what the white massa teaches them.



If you were black you would have experienced racism and would have a profoundly different view of the world.

Once again, sorry but I am not going to wallow in guilt cause I am white. You all do such a good job of it for the rest of us.

I lived in a 40 foot trailer with 3 bedrooms as a kid. 5 kids no money. I slept on the couch cause the older brothers shared the tiny bedroom and the sisters got the other, well and of course my uncaring parents took the third.

My mother worked all her life as waitress, go ahead tell me how rich one gets on tips and a dollar an hour in pay, while feeding clothing and taking care of 5 kids. Eventually my father , who worked mostly as a lineman for the railroad joined the National Guard then went regular army. Back in the day when a months pay was about 90 dollars a month. We moved all over the place, and believe me money comes out of your pocket on every move. We had to wait to move to what ever place my dad was stationed at till he got family housing cause we couldn't afford to move and pay rent.

Sorry if I don't cry like you over those poor welfare dependent blacks. My parents NEVER went on welfare. When we were broke, we were broke. That meant buying food and not paying bills and hoping the electric or water didn't get turned off before you made enough to pay them as well.

I wore cloths my mother made because it was cheaper than buying them. I wore hand me downs as well. Again pardon me if I don't cry for all those poor black folks.

Yup, those poor downtrodden blacks are the only ones discriminated against, the only poor people in this country, the only ones that just can't make it cause someone has their foot on the back of their neck keeping them down.

Spare me the sob story.

 

[BrianH]

So, then you admit that a group that is marginalized, discriminated against, killed, etc, etc, can justifiably (not acceptably...justifiably) have strong feelings against those who persecuted them?

So....what you're saying, is that young blacks, who have never experienced these things, can hate young whites who have never done these things to them, for that purpose??? Yeah, that's a good way to raise our youth. "If you ever have any problems in life, it's the white folks doin it cause they enslaved your ancestors 150 years ago. I see, this is how it works. I need to find someone from British descent to pay me for the time they enslaved my Irish and Scotish ancestors. And maybe find some people of latin descent, since it was the Romans whos enslaved some of my ancestors to.

 

[ReillyT]

So....what you're saying, is that young blacks, who have never experienced these things, can hate young whites who have never done these things to them, for that purpose??? Yeah, that's a good way to raise our youth. "If you ever have any problems in life, it's the white folks doin it cause they enslaved your ancestors 150 years ago. I see, this is how it works. I need to find someone from British descent to pay me for the time they enslaved my Irish and Scotish ancestors. And maybe find some people of latin descent, since it was the Romans whos enslaved some of my ancestors to.

You are confusing a descriptive comment with a normative one. He isn't saying it is okay for anybody to hate anyone for anything. What he is saying is that it is at least understable for African Americans to feel bitter that they have gotten a raw deal... pretty much from before the founding of the country. Even if you think that everyone is treated equally today, that wasn't true all that long ago, and it is understable that blacks who lived through the civil rights movement (and yes, even their children) might feel resentment today.

 

[BrianH]

You are confusing a descriptive comment with a normative one. He isn't saying it is okay for anybody to hate anyone for anything. What he is saying is that it is at least understable for African Americans to feel bitter that they have gotten a raw deal... pretty much from before the founding of the country. Even if you think that everyone is treated equally today, that wasn't true all that long ago, and it is understable that blacks who lived through the civil rights movement (and yes, even their children) might feel resentment today.

I agree, so that answers the question on who's causing racial tension.

I can understand the fact that they do feel resentment because of that treatment, but why they would still choose to fill this way is beyond me.
I am not racist, so don't think that I am. I have several black friends.

the majority of little white kids are brought up to "not judge people by the color of their skin." I can't prove it, but I garauntee alot of little black kids are brought up to blame all of their misfortunes on the whites and the government.

IMO, a black baby today is getting no lesser a deal than a white baby born into the same lifestyle. I'm not racists, but I don't believe that blacks are getting a raw deal today. They may have in the past, but the past is the past.

People are extremely quick to jump to the whole "racism" dog and pony show.
The fact is, people are more comfortable around people that are similar to them. You look at a school lunch room. They can sit where they like, but you'll notice the black kids sitting together, the white kids sitting together, and the hispanic kids sitting together (majority of them). Nobody's segregating them, but they do it because it's comfortable. Nobody' makes a black person move to the "black" side of town. Nobody makes a hispanic move to the "hispanic" side of town. Same with the whites. I've used this analogy before, but you drop someone in a circle, and they're going to choose their own race...not because they're racists, but because they're more comfortable with they're own race. And the lifestyles that people to choose to live (some don't) within their race, is the reason for their fortunes/misfortunes. There are very successful black people that have ended the cycle of poverty in their families because they got an education. Education (or lack thereof) is IMO, one of the main reasons why blacks "think" they're getting a raw deal. I believe that many blacks do not encourage their kids to get a higher education, or to value the one they're getting in school, thus keeping the cycle of poverty alive in their family.

 

[ReillyT]

I agree, so that answers the question on who's causing racial tension.

I can understand the fact that they do feel resentment because of that treatment, but why they would still choose to fill this way is beyond me.

I don't think black Americans choose to feel resentment. I mean, it isn't like they sit down at the kitchen table and weigh the pros and cons of feeling resentment. However, inner city ghettos are predominantly African American (not all cities, but most), and one would have to be blind to think that this doesn't have something to do with the history of treatment suffered by African Americans. Blacks see this. They know that they are equal, but they also see that their race is at the bottom of the ladder and has been for hundreds of years. In addition, segregation was still the law about 40 years ago, and the resentment that older African Americans felt them hasn't disappeared. It isn't like equality started immediately after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In fact, equality isn't really practiced fully even today.

the majority of little white kids are brought up to "not judge people by the color of their skin." I can't prove it, but I garauntee alot of little black kids are brought up to blame all of their misfortunes on the whites and the government.

It is easy to be magnanimous when you aren't the ones who have suffered. Assuming the state of Palestine were established tomorrow, how hard would it be for Palestinians to tell their kids that Isreal isn't to be blamed for their economic under-development. Same applies for Jews discussing Palestinians. This shit just takes time.

IMO, a black baby today is getting no lesser a deal than a white baby born into the same lifestyle. I'm not racists, but I don't believe that blacks are getting a raw deal today. They may have in the past, but the past is the past.

Maybe you are right, but when discussing the "same lifestyle," one must acknowledge that a child born today to a black family is much more likely to be born into poverty than a child born to a white family.

 

[BrianH]

I don't think black Americans choose to feel resentment. I mean, it isn't like they sit down at the kitchen table and weigh the pros and cons of feeling resentment. However, inner city ghettos are predominantly African American (not all cities, but most), and one would have to be blind to think that this doesn't have something to do with the history of treatment suffered by African Americans. Blacks see this. They know that they are equal, but they also see that their race is at the bottom of the ladder and has been for hundreds of years. In addition, segregation was still the law about 40 years ago, and the resentment that older African Americans felt them hasn't disappeared. It isn't like equality started immediately after the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In fact, equality isn't really practiced fully even today.



It is easy to be magnanimous when you aren't the ones who have suffered. Assuming the state of Palestine were established tomorrow, how hard would it be for Palestinians to tell their kids that Isreal isn't to be blamed for their economic under-development. Same applies for Jews discussing Palestinians. This shit just takes time.




Maybe you are right, but when discussing the "same lifestyle," one must acknowledge that a child born today to a black family is much more likely to be born into poverty than a child born to a white family.

You make good points, and I see how it can go either way. Unfortunately, we're both not able to get inside of every black persons mind and tell what they're thinking and why they're thinking it.

I don't think statistics really plays a role. As far as being more likely that a white baby will not be born in poverty. If my memory serves me correctly, the percentage of whites to blacks on welfare is significantly higher. Essentially, there are more whites on welfare.

What I meant by lifestyle was not that it was a more likely that a white or black child be born into that life style, but that a white baby born into poverty is getting no lesser a deal than a black baby being born into poverty.

Under the law, blacks and whites are treated equally. Aside from the double-standards that races set on thier own. Everyone has equal opportuntiy.

There are programs in place that pave the way for you blacks to go to college, given they commit. I spent my entire college life deleting e-mails for scholarships where the requirements were to be black, hispanic, or some other race. Never saw a "caucasian scholarship". Some would say that many general scholarships are geared towards whites, however, there are no requirements that the applicants be white. The help is out there for young blacks in poverty. It's an attitude of education. I don't feel like this is the only thing that causes it, race unfortunately does play a part to a degree...but it doesn't have to.

I do feel for AA. I understand that they may have gotten a raw deal in the past, and I understand that they may still be angry over it. But anyone can complain about the past and never build themselves for the future. Older blacks that lived through the segregation times need to teach their kids that this is no longer the case. It's kind of like teaching kids about guns, you don't teach them that guns are bad and that they're used to kill people. Otherwise, the kids going to grow up thinking that all guns are used strictly to kill people. If parents teach their kids that whites enslaved their ancestors and that they should still blame the whites, young blacks are going to grow up with this mentality and still think racial segregation is going on, and that they're still treated unfairly under the law. Maybe that's why this is such a problem, we're in a "between period." There are still blacks alive that were segregated, so their kids learn from a primary resource about it, and how the whites cruelly treated the blacks...generating hate.

There's many instances I could use in my past to drive me down the path of poverty or hate, but I look foreward. I'm not an expert on AA, but it seems like few blacks have the "pull yourself up by the boot-straps" mentality. I could be wrong.