Obama's Dimestore 'Mein Kampf'

[jreeves]

Obama subscribes to a theology that Dr. Martin Luther King called decisive and denounced.

 

[jreeves]

Obama subscribes to a theology that Dr. Martin Luther King called decisive and denounced.

Opps....divisive

 

[ReillyT]

Explain why when Senator Trent Lott made a small comment about a retiring Senator that was a call to arms to strip from him his position of authority and to try and force him to resign for being " A Racist" but when Senator Obama OPENLY quotes and cites as his inspiration a man that wants all whites destroyed by ANY MEANS possible, that equates ALL whites as servants of Satan, you have no problem at all?

What is to explain? Due to the history of race relations in this country, there is less tolerance for white connections (or perceptions of connections) to racist sentiment than there is for blacks.

 

[jreeves]

What is to explain? Due to the history of race relations in this country, there is less tolerance for white connections (or perceptions of connections) to racist sentiment than there is for blacks.

So in your opinion all whites should be destroyed, oh ok, just so we're clear.

 

[ReillyT]

So in your opinion all whites should be destroyed, oh ok, just so we're clear.

I was making a descriptive point - not a normative one. Try to keep up sonny.

 

[ReillyT]

So in your opinion all whites should be destroyed, oh ok, just so we're clear.

I hope not, as I am white.

 

[jreeves]

I hope not, as I am white.

Well that's what the founder of black liberation theology has stated. You can defend someone, only to a certain point. I understand a sense of feeling disadvantaged, that's fine. But when you promote openly, divisive teachings and hate filled language that is definitely not defendable. Thousands of uneducated people heard his teachings, what effect do you think those teachings had on those people? Do you think Obama didn't realize what the views being conveyed were, when the church is based on the theology? This type of teachings are not what Dr. Martin Luther King had in mind. He was for uniting the two races not dividing them which is exactly what this theology does.

 

[ReillyT]

Well that's what the founder of black liberation theology has stated.

Really, you actually believe that the mission and message of this very large, very public church in Chicago is "kill whitey?"

You can defend someone, only to a certain point. I understand a sense of feeling disadvantaged, that's fine. But when you promote openly, divisive teachings and hate filled language that is definitely not defendable. Thousands of uneducated people heard his teachings, what effect do you think those teachings had on those people? Do you think Obama didn't realize what the views being conveyed were, when the church is based on the theology? This type of teachings are not what Dr. Martin Luther King had in mind. He was for uniting the two races not dividing them which is exactly what this theology does.

Liberation theologies actually originated with the Catholic Church (especially the Jesuits) who advanced the notion that Jesus was not only a redeemer, but a liberator.

As for what Trinity United espouses, let's hear it from Wright:

COLMES: But I want to ask you about your church that the public understands. I want the public to understand where your church is coming from, because you're being accused of being a black separatist church, and thus Obama is being accused by default of being a black separatist. Can you straighten that out for us, please?

WRIGHT: OK. The African-centered point of view does not assume superiority, nor does it assume separatism. It assumes Africans speaking for themselves as subjects in history, not objects in history.

It comes from the principles of Kawaida, the second principle being Kuji Salawi (ph), which is self-determination, us naming ourselves, and not saying we are superior to anybody. We have no hierarchical arrangement.

When you say an African-centered way of thinking, African-centered philosophy, African-centered theology, you're talking about one center. We're talking about something that's different. And different does not mean deficient...

COLMES: Aren't there black churches...

WRIGHT: ... nor does it mean superior or inferior. The whole notion of hierarchal, one's superior, we must be separate because we're better, that has absolutely nothing to do with...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256078,00.html

Or, let's look at the Trinity United mission on its website:

Trinity United Church of Christ has been called by God to be a congregation that is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that does not apologize for its African roots! As a congregation of baptized believers, we are called to be agents of liberation not only for the oppressed, but for all of God’s family. We, as a church family, acknowledge, that we will, building on this affirmation of "who we are" and "whose we are," call men, women, boys and girls to the liberating love of Jesus Christ, inviting them to become a part of the church universal, responding to Jesus’ command that we go into all the world and make disciples!

We are called out to be "a chosen people" that pays no attention to socio-economic or educational backgrounds. We are made up of the highly educated and the uneducated. Our congregation is a combination of the haves and the have-nots; the economically disadvantaged, the under-class, the unemployed and the employable.

The fortunate who are among us combine forces with the less fortunate to become agents of change for God who is not pleased with America’s economic mal-distribution!

W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.

http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

I don't know what Wright believes in his heart. I also don't know what any person believes in their heart. I do think one would have to be a buffoon to fall for the notion that racial genocide is at the heart of this theology - especially as the theology is commonly practiced in the US.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What is to explain? Due to the history of race relations in this country, there is less tolerance for white connections (or perceptions of connections) to racist sentiment than there is for blacks.

In other words, it is ok for a black man to be a racist and you just do not care. Why would you want a man that wants to destroy by any means possible a majority of the population of this country as your President?

A man that openly writes he wants to expunge the white blood from his veins, supports a racist religion that views ALL whites as evil. He is not a problem? He gets a pass for his hatred because he is black?

 

[jreeves]

Really, you actually believe that the mission and message of this very large, very public church in Chicago is "kill whitey?"



Liberation theologies actually originated with the Catholic Church (especially the Jesuits) who advanced the notion that Jesus was not only a redeemer, but a liberator.

As for what Trinity United espouses, let's hear it from Wright:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256078,00.html

Or, let's look at the Trinity United mission on its website:


http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

I don't know what Wright believes in his heart. I also don't know what any person believes in their heart. I do think one would have to be a buffoon to fall for the notion that racial genocide is at the heart of this theology - especially as the theology is commonly practiced in the US.

There have been large followings of hate filled messages all throughout history, so to say just because there is a large following is hardly a defense. I know it spun off a more secular religion, you don't think radicals can spin off of a secular religion, say like 'Jihadist' off of the Muslim religion?
So your telling me that Dr. Wright wouldn't try to portray a more comfortable image, when one of his members was running for President and was engulfed with questions about the racism portrayed by the church? What him being elected mean to the end goal of the black liberation movement?

 

[ReillyT]

In other words, it is ok for a black man to be a racist and you just do not care.

It is true that I care less when racist sentiment is expressed by a black person than a white person. After all the years of oppression, I can understand a certain amount of anger and resentment, especially in the older black generations.

Why would you want a man that wants to destroy by any means possible a majority of the population of this country as your President?

A man that openly writes he wants to expunge the white blood from his veins, supports a racist religion that views ALL whites as evil. He is not a problem? He gets a pass for his hatred because he is black?

Do you actually believe that Barack Obama wants to destroy white people? That is just stupid. You probably think he wants to start with Grandma.

His memoir was about a point in his life growing up when he was wrestling with his racial identity. I am sure that lots of mixed-race kids have problems with identity. I don't find that surprising.

I think you are over-simplifying both his church and the theology (and we don't even know to what extent his church actually espouses the theology, or what elements of it that are espoused). I put a quote from James Cone on the neighboring thread. I encourage you to take a look at it.

Finally, Barack Obama is not J. Wright or J. Cone. He is his own person. Judge him on his actions and words, not those of another.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It is true that I care less when racist sentiment is expressed by a black person than a white person. After all the years of oppression, I can understand a certain amount of anger and resentment, especially in the older black generations.



Do you actually believe that Barack Obama wants to destroy white people? That is just stupid. You probably think he wants to start with Grandma.

His memoir was about a point in his life growing up when he was wrestling with his racial identity. I am sure that lots of mixed-race kids have problems with identity. I don't find that surprising.

I think you are over-simplifying both his church and the theology (and we don't even know to what extent his church actually espouses the theology, or what elements of it that are espoused). I put a quote from James Cone on the neighboring thread. I encourage you to take a look at it.

Finally, Barack Obama is not J. Wright or J. Cone. He is his own person. Judge him on his actions and words, not those of another.

So remind me of YOUR opinion of the Trent Lott affair.

 

[ReillyT]

So remind me of YOUR opinion of the Trent Lott affair.

A little off-topic, but I actually don't remember.

 

[jreeves]

A little off-topic, but I actually don't remember.

How do you justify his statement that if Jesus we're white he would have to kill him?

 

[ReillyT]

How do you justify his statement that if Jesus we're white he would have to kill him?

I don't know. What is the quote? What is the context? Specific statements in isolation don't mean much.

How about this quote?

"I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today-my own government."

MLK, "Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence," delivered April 4, 1967.
(www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm)

How about this quote?

"Is AIDS a judgment of God? I could not say for sure, but I think so."

Billy Graham.

www.aegis.com/news/ads/1993/AD931840.html

Or this one?

"If you're here without a church home and you know that the lord has set you free, you want a church home, come on! Red, white, black, yellow, Asian, Hispanic, come on!"

Jeremiah Wright
www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=4808fe74-023d-417b-8537-33763c33e399

None of these quotes mean anything in and of themselves. They are each just a glimpse into a person and a belief system greatly more complex.

 

[jreeves]

I don't know. What is the quote? What is the context? Specific statements in isolation don't mean much.

How about this quote?



MLK, "Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence," delivered April 4, 1967.
(www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm)

How about this quote?



Billy Graham.

www.aegis.com/news/ads/1993/AD931840.html

Or this one?



Jeremiah Wright
www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=4808fe74-023d-417b-8537-33763c33e399

None of these quotes mean anything in and of themselves. They are each just a glimpse into a person and a belief system greatly more complex.

You still are not addressing the divisive statements, if they were taken out of context then tell how?

 

[ReillyT]

You still are not addressing the divisive statements, if they were taken out of context then tell how?

I don't even know what quote you are referring to, so I can't give you context.

However, context means both the statement in context of the whole interview or passage, and statement in context of the whole belief system.

I will be perfectly happy if I can just get you to agree that you know very little about Cone and what he believes and what he is written. I have given you many quotes where Cone speaks about people of the different races coming together. Your view of Cone is a caricature based upon isolated statements that may not reflect the ideology he espouses. If you can agree with that, then you have the foundation to look deeper and more critically into his work.

 

[The_Hammer]

I don't know. What is the quote? What is the context? Specific statements in isolation don't mean much.

How about this quote?



MLK, "Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence," delivered April 4, 1967.
(www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm)

Yeah buddy, that quote is true though.

 

[KungFusion]

Sorry for the delayed response, this argument is far to insipid for me to pursue it when i'm not at work. Here you go:

I don't see any proof of hysteria.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFusion
Well, she opens with "Obama is about to be our next president" (already revealing her hysterical penchant for jumping to conclusions),

Isn't Obama almost or about to be our next president? Most Democrats seem to think so…does that mean they are hysterical to think so?

Most Democrats? You mean except for the near HALF of them that are Hillary supporters? Or the realistic ones that realize that the prolonged primary is increasing McCain's chances by the day? Don't be thick - you know that the statement that "most dems think Obama is about to be our next president" is totally spurious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFusion
and then goes on to compare him with Hitler (a sure sign of hysteria in any "political analyst"),

Don't Democrats compare Bush to Hitler all the time? Are they all hysterical? Remember, like Obama, Hitler was also a great speaker who could sway the masses. However, she was specifically referring to Mein Kampf - which also alludes to a tortured past and problems with race. Does that mean she is hysterical...I think not.

sorry- any attempt to make Obama out to look like Hitler is hysterical. And yes, i'm not defending comparisons of Bush to Hitler - they are equally hysterical, and Ann Coulter has said as much herself - the fact that she would go on then to compare Obama to Hitler only proves that she is a flaming hypocrite as well as being hysterical (or perhaps she's hypocritical because she's hysterical, but the exact chain of causation isn't necessarily important here)


Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFusion
and the rest is hyperbolic invective aimed at hastily castrated fragments of lines which she makes no attempt to place back in their original context.

And this is nothing but your biased personal opinion...which I myself could call hysterical...

Prove it. First prove that it's nothing but my biased personal opinion - then prove that that opinion is hysterical (this is, after all, what you asked me to do).

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A little off-topic, but I actually don't remember.

BULLSHIT. What you mean is you chose not to answer because it will conflict with what your saying now.

It is not off topic AT ALL. Trent Lott was hounded from his leadership position for the affront of saying some kind words to an old man retiring. All in the name of racism.