Obama's Defense of Religion

catzmeow

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Aug 14, 2008
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Obama's Defense of Religion - Reason Magazine

Obama may be accused of ignoring the establishment clause of the First Amendment, which forbids government support of religion. But if so, it's because he has given too much deference to religious freedom rather than too little.

His commitment is also on display in defending churches against municipal governments that would prefer to do without them. Under federal law, houses of worship are assured equitable treatment in land use decisions. But mayors and community groups often tell churches to go to the devil.

When that happens, they often find themselves at odds with the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department. Last year, it forced the town of Schodack, N.Y., to retreat after it barred an evangelical church from renting space in a commercial area where nonreligious meetings were allowed.

It filed a brief in support of a Hasidic Jewish congregation's lawsuit against the city of Los Angeles, which had forbidden it to hold services in a private home. A federal court ordered the city to back off.

The administration has also intervened in cases where prisoners are denied religious literature. After a South Carolina sheriff prohibited inmates from getting devotional materials and other publications in the mail, the Justice Department sued. In the end, the county agreed to let inmates receive Bibles, Torahs, Korans and related fare.

...University of Virginia law professor Douglas Laycock criticized the contraceptive mandate and opposed the administration in a Supreme Court case involving a teacher fired by a religious school. But on the faith-based hiring issue, he says, Obama has actually been "kind of heroic."

The president's detractors may continue to portray him as a secular fanatic with, as Rick Santorum claims, an "overt hostility to faith in America." Before they do, though, they might want to remember the Ten Commandments -- especially the one about bearing false witness.

Food for thought. I generally find the truth to be far more complex and nuanced than the average partisan soundbyte.
 
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Support religion on a minor issue and oppose it on major issues.

I think you meant: Oppose religion on a minor issue and support it on major issues.

After all, Obama's support of religious organizations being forced to pay for contraception, in the scheme of things, is a relatively minor issue...

IN what major ways do you believe Obama has opposed religious freedom in the U.S.?
 
Support religion on a minor issue and oppose it on major issues.

I think you meant: Oppose religion on a minor issue and support it on major issues.


After all, Obama's support of religious organizations being forced to pay for contraception, in the scheme of things, is a relatively minor issue...

IN what major ways do you believe Obama has opposed religious freedom in the U.S.?

No. It's oppose religion on large issues.
Religion should NOT be involved with politics nor should it influence laws.

It's not infringing on religious rights. You have the right to practice your religion, but you don't have the right to change the laws in accordance to your religion, bring religion into politics for any influence or to gain religious supporters for religious motives, or to make any governmental decisions to be in accordance with your religion or use religious motives with governmental decisions.




By doing that, you will end up infringing on the rights of other religions and then that would become unconstitutional and may be punished bu the court of law or through a lawsuit. For example: Prop. 8 was ruled unconstitutional because religion influenced the law to be in accordance with their religion/motives, which infringed on the rights of those who are rightfully protected under the constitution.


Another Example:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBBiKkYqljw&list=LLt-GlQHg97QwZoz7T3FIiWQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video]Americans Are Pro-Birth Control: Poll - YouTube[/ame]


Religious folks have kicked, screamed, and cried over this and said it "violates their religious rights". Over 60% (and in other cases, over 75%, which is considered an absolute ass-kicking) disagreed because religion should NOT influence laws!
Their "Religious rights" tried to push for laws in Iowa/Virginia to require ultrasound procedures be done for abortions since their "religious rights" also pushed for the contraception to be ended. How barbaric can you get!? Why would you make someone suffer for their choices if they can NOT care for the child!? And lets not forget how their "religious rights" also pushed for a transvaginal ultrasound procedure to be done for abortions! The procedure would be unconsentual (basically rape), to cause even more pain.

NOW FUCK OFF BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT!
 
Support religion on a minor issue and oppose it on major issues.

I think you meant: Oppose religion on a minor issue and support it on major issues.


After all, Obama's support of religious organizations being forced to pay for contraception, in the scheme of things, is a relatively minor issue...

IN what major ways do you believe Obama has opposed religious freedom in the U.S.?

No. It's oppose religion on large issues.
Religion should NOT be involved with politics nor should it influence laws.

It's not infringing on religious rights. You have the right to practice your religion, but you don't have the right to change the laws in accordance to your religion, bring religion into politics for any influence or to gain religious supporters for religious motives, or to make any governmental decisions to be in accordance with your religion or use religious motives with governmental decisions.




By doing that, you will end up infringing on the rights of other religions and then that would become unconstitutional and may be punished bu the court of law or through a lawsuit. For example: Prop. 8 was ruled unconstitutional because religion influenced the law to be in accordance with their religion/motives, which infringed on the rights of those who are rightfully protected under the constitution.


Another Example:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBBiKkYqljw&list=LLt-GlQHg97QwZoz7T3FIiWQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video]Americans Are Pro-Birth Control: Poll - YouTube[/ame]


Religious folks have kicked, screamed, and cried over this and said it "violates their religious rights". Over 60% (and in other cases, over 75%, which is considered an absolute ass-kicking) disagreed because religion should NOT influence laws!
Their "Religious rights" tried to push for laws in Iowa/Virginia to require ultrasound procedures be done for abortions since their "religious rights" also pushed for the contraception to be ended. How barbaric can you get!? Why would you make someone suffer for their choices if they can NOT care for the child!? And lets not forget how their "religious rights" also pushed for a transvaginal ultrasound procedure to be done for abortions! The procedure would be unconsentual (basically rape), to cause even more pain.

NOW FUCK OFF BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syV2LkGpQB0]lighten up, Francis - YouTube[/ame]
 

I think you meant: Oppose religion on a minor issue and support it on major issues.


After all, Obama's support of religious organizations being forced to pay for contraception, in the scheme of things, is a relatively minor issue...

IN what major ways do you believe Obama has opposed religious freedom in the U.S.?

No. It's oppose religion on large issues.
Religion should NOT be involved with politics nor should it influence laws.

It's not infringing on religious rights. You have the right to practice your religion, but you don't have the right to change the laws in accordance to your religion, bring religion into politics for any influence or to gain religious supporters for religious motives, or to make any governmental decisions to be in accordance with your religion or use religious motives with governmental decisions.




By doing that, you will end up infringing on the rights of other religions and then that would become unconstitutional and may be punished bu the court of law or through a lawsuit. For example: Prop. 8 was ruled unconstitutional because religion influenced the law to be in accordance with their religion/motives, which infringed on the rights of those who are rightfully protected under the constitution.


Another Example:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBBiKkYqljw&list=LLt-GlQHg97QwZoz7T3FIiWQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video]Americans Are Pro-Birth Control: Poll - YouTube[/ame]


Religious folks have kicked, screamed, and cried over this and said it "violates their religious rights". Over 60% (and in other cases, over 75%, which is considered an absolute ass-kicking) disagreed because religion should NOT influence laws!
Their "Religious rights" tried to push for laws in Iowa/Virginia to require ultrasound procedures be done for abortions since their "religious rights" also pushed for the contraception to be ended. How barbaric can you get!? Why would you make someone suffer for their choices if they can NOT care for the child!? And lets not forget how their "religious rights" also pushed for a transvaginal ultrasound procedure to be done for abortions! The procedure would be unconsentual (basically rape), to cause even more pain.

NOW FUCK OFF BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syV2LkGpQB0]lighten up, Francis - YouTube[/ame]

ok....

but it felt good to get that out.
 
Obama may be accused of ignoring the establishment clause of the First Amendment, which forbids government support of religion. But if so, it's because he has given too much deference to religious freedom rather than too little.

His commitment is also on display in defending churches against municipal governments that would prefer to do without them. Under federal law, houses of worship are assured equitable treatment in land use decisions. But mayors and community groups often tell churches to go to the devil.

When that happens, they often find themselves at odds with the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department. Last year, it forced the town of Schodack, N.Y., to retreat after it barred an evangelical church from renting space in a commercial area where nonreligious meetings were allowed.

It filed a brief in support of a Hasidic Jewish congregation's lawsuit against the city of Los Angeles, which had forbidden it to hold services in a private home. A federal court ordered the city to back off.

The administration has also intervened in cases where prisoners are denied religious literature. After a South Carolina sheriff prohibited inmates from getting devotional materials and other publications in the mail, the Justice Department sued. In the end, the county agreed to let inmates receive Bibles, Torahs, Korans and related fare.

...University of Virginia law professor Douglas Laycock criticized the contraceptive mandate and opposed the administration in a Supreme Court case involving a teacher fired by a religious school. But on the faith-based hiring issue, he says, Obama has actually been "kind of heroic."

The president's detractors may continue to portray him as a secular fanatic with, as Rick Santorum claims, an "overt hostility to faith in America." Before they do, though, they might want to remember the Ten Commandments -- especially the one about bearing false witness.

As is often the case, it’s state and local jurisdictions exhibiting a propensity to violate citizens’ rights, in this situation the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment.

The DOJ is simply following Constitutional case law on the issue as established by the Supreme Court. Where a given issue falls between the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause can usually be determined by applying this case law. In some cases, depending on the circumstances, the government will support religious expression stifled by government excess; in other cases it will uphold the Constitutional mandate that church and State remain separate.

As the OP and cited article correctly note, the notion that the current administration is ‘anti-religion’ is idiocy.
 
NOW FUCK OFF BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT!

How about you "fuck off" because your government has no place in religion.

You liberals are such hypocrits, you claim to believe in "separation of church and state" yet don't hesitate to pass laws that force religious instutions to do things that are against their beliefs.
 
Support religion on a minor issue and oppose it on major issues.

I think you meant: Oppose religion on a minor issue and support it on major issues.


After all, Obama's support of religious organizations being forced to pay for contraception, in the scheme of things, is a relatively minor issue...

IN what major ways do you believe Obama has opposed religious freedom in the U.S.?

No. It's oppose religion on large issues.
Religion should NOT be involved with politics nor should it influence laws.

It's not infringing on religious rights. You have the right to practice your religion, but you don't have the right to change the laws in accordance to your religion, bring religion into politics for any influence or to gain religious supporters for religious motives, or to make any governmental decisions to be in accordance with your religion or use religious motives with governmental decisions.




By doing that, you will end up infringing on the rights of other religions and then that would become unconstitutional and may be punished bu the court of law or through a lawsuit. For example: Prop. 8 was ruled unconstitutional because religion influenced the law to be in accordance with their religion/motives, which infringed on the rights of those who are rightfully protected under the constitution.


Another Example:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBBiKkYqljw&list=LLt-GlQHg97QwZoz7T3FIiWQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video"]Americans Are Pro-Birth Control: Poll - YouTube[/ame]


Religious folks have kicked, screamed, and cried over this and said it "violates their religious rights". Over 60% (and in other cases, over 75%, which is considered an absolute ass-kicking) disagreed because religion should NOT influence laws!
Their "Religious rights" tried to push for laws in Iowa/Virginia to require ultrasound procedures be done for abortions since their "religious rights" also pushed for the contraception to be ended. How barbaric can you get!? Why would you make someone suffer for their choices if they can NOT care for the child!? And lets not forget how their "religious rights" also pushed for a transvaginal ultrasound procedure to be done for abortions! The procedure would be unconsentual (basically rape), to cause even more pain.

NOW FUCK OFF BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT!

Only idiots think religion does not influence laws, and only morons actually object to it. What intelligent people object to is idiots who want to make the laws about religion instead of about living together. In order for that to work the law can neither establish a religion, nor can it prevent a people from freely exercising religion. Either of those turns the law from what it is supposed to be into the first step on the road to theocracy.

If you really want to keep religion out of government you should work extra hard to keep government out of religion.
 
NOW FUCK OFF BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT!

How about you "fuck off" because your government has no place in religion.

You liberals are such hypocrits, you claim to believe in "separation of church and state" yet don't hesitate to pass laws that force religious instutions to do things that are against their beliefs.

Religion has the privilege to be here. And since there can be such diversity, we have to establish a neutral set a laws for the country that don't adhere to any religion.

For example, if this was a muslim country, then any follower of any other religion can be murdered and the murdered can get away with that.

Here, the muslim murderer will be held for their crimes and vice versa for any other religious person who murders the muslim.

Now for laws such as marriage, Christianity is what influenced to make gay marriage illegal. That takes the rights away from others.

There should be NO law on marriage and it should be up to any religious group to perform those. If it's a christian church performing gay weddings, it should NOT be illegal because they are willing to do so. People should not take other's rights away.



You can follow your religion all you want , but you HAVE to follow OUR RULES. Otherwise, go somewhere else if you don't want to.

Like Mitt Romney/Rick Santorum: They want to have Christianity lead the country and have it influence OUR WARS! GTFO OUT OF HERE! Like we need another worldwide holy war that only serves the purpose to take lives over a fairytale.

Equal rights for all.
 
NOW FUCK OFF BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT!

How about you "fuck off" because your government has no place in religion.

You liberals are such hypocrits, you claim to believe in "separation of church and state" yet don't hesitate to pass laws that force religious instutions to do things that are against their beliefs.

Religion has the privilege to be here. And since there can be such diversity, we have to establish a neutral set a laws for the country that don't adhere to any religion.

For example, if this was a muslim country, then any follower of any other religion can be murdered and the murdered can get away with that.

Here, the muslim murderer will be held for their crimes and vice versa for any other religious person who murders the muslim.

Now for laws such as marriage, Christianity is what influenced to make gay marriage illegal. That takes the rights away from others.

There should be NO law on marriage and it should be up to any religious group to perform those. If it's a christian church performing gay weddings, it should NOT be illegal because they are willing to do so. People should not take other's rights away.



You can follow your religion all you want , but you HAVE to follow OUR RULES. Otherwise, go somewhere else if you don't want to.

Like Mitt Romney/Rick Santorum: They want to have Christianity lead the country and have it influence OUR WARS! GTFO OUT OF HERE! Like we need another worldwide holy war that only serves the purpose to take lives over a fairytale.

Equal rights for all.

It is NOT illegal for a church to marry gays if they want. Can you point out one instance where someone was arrested for performing a gay marriage or being in a gay marriage? No, you can't. So stop believing in the lie that gay marriage is "banned" or "illegal" anywhere in the US because it simply isn't true.

Big difference between gay marriage being "illegal" and a state or federal government simply choosing to not recognize it as a marriage.
 
How about you "fuck off" because your government has no place in religion.

You liberals are such hypocrits, you claim to believe in "separation of church and state" yet don't hesitate to pass laws that force religious instutions to do things that are against their beliefs.

Religion has the privilege to be here. And since there can be such diversity, we have to establish a neutral set a laws for the country that don't adhere to any religion.

For example, if this was a muslim country, then any follower of any other religion can be murdered and the murdered can get away with that.

Here, the muslim murderer will be held for their crimes and vice versa for any other religious person who murders the muslim.

Now for laws such as marriage, Christianity is what influenced to make gay marriage illegal. That takes the rights away from others.

There should be NO law on marriage and it should be up to any religious group to perform those. If it's a christian church performing gay weddings, it should NOT be illegal because they are willing to do so. People should not take other's rights away.



You can follow your religion all you want , but you HAVE to follow OUR RULES. Otherwise, go somewhere else if you don't want to.

Like Mitt Romney/Rick Santorum: They want to have Christianity lead the country and have it influence OUR WARS! GTFO OUT OF HERE! Like we need another worldwide holy war that only serves the purpose to take lives over a fairytale.

Equal rights for all.

It is NOT illegal for a church to marry gays if they want. Can you point out one instance where someone was arrested for performing a gay marriage or being in a gay marriage? No, you can't. So stop believing in the lie that gay marriage is "banned" or "illegal" anywhere in the US because it simply isn't true.

Big difference between gay marriage being "illegal" and a state or federal government simply choosing to not recognize it as a marriage.

Then why aren't gays getting married in states that don't allow it and there is a huge effort to have those laws overturned?
 
How about you "fuck off" because your government has no place in religion.

You liberals are such hypocrits, you claim to believe in "separation of church and state" yet don't hesitate to pass laws that force religious instutions to do things that are against their beliefs.

Religion has the privilege to be here. And since there can be such diversity, we have to establish a neutral set a laws for the country that don't adhere to any religion.

For example, if this was a muslim country, then any follower of any other religion can be murdered and the murdered can get away with that.

Here, the muslim murderer will be held for their crimes and vice versa for any other religious person who murders the muslim.

Now for laws such as marriage, Christianity is what influenced to make gay marriage illegal. That takes the rights away from others.

There should be NO law on marriage and it should be up to any religious group to perform those. If it's a christian church performing gay weddings, it should NOT be illegal because they are willing to do so. People should not take other's rights away.



You can follow your religion all you want , but you HAVE to follow OUR RULES. Otherwise, go somewhere else if you don't want to.

Like Mitt Romney/Rick Santorum: They want to have Christianity lead the country and have it influence OUR WARS! GTFO OUT OF HERE! Like we need another worldwide holy war that only serves the purpose to take lives over a fairytale.

Equal rights for all.

It is NOT illegal for a church to marry gays if they want. Can you point out one instance where someone was arrested for performing a gay marriage or being in a gay marriage? No, you can't. So stop believing in the lie that gay marriage is "banned" or "illegal" anywhere in the US because it simply isn't true.

Big difference between gay marriage being "illegal" and a state or federal government simply choosing to not recognize it as a marriage.

And another item to note is that churches have always had the right to marry homosexuals while it is the state that does not recognize homosexual unions, yet the homosexual community and the left wing fanatics attack the church and demand that the church sanction these unions. Ironic how on the one hand they want the church to sanction their unions and on the other they want to tear it down.

Most churches are not willing to offer homosexual marriages although some are coming to the point where they will, but it is the state that does not recognize those marriages at all or didn't until recently when some states began to allow them. Yet the homosexual community attacks the church as if the church had a say in politics and kisses the asses of the very people who are holding them back... the government.

Immie
 
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Religion has the privilege to be here. And since there can be such diversity, we have to establish a neutral set a laws for the country that don't adhere to any religion.

For example, if this was a muslim country, then any follower of any other religion can be murdered and the murdered can get away with that.

Here, the muslim murderer will be held for their crimes and vice versa for any other religious person who murders the muslim.

Now for laws such as marriage, Christianity is what influenced to make gay marriage illegal. That takes the rights away from others.

There should be NO law on marriage and it should be up to any religious group to perform those. If it's a christian church performing gay weddings, it should NOT be illegal because they are willing to do so. People should not take other's rights away.



You can follow your religion all you want , but you HAVE to follow OUR RULES. Otherwise, go somewhere else if you don't want to.

Like Mitt Romney/Rick Santorum: They want to have Christianity lead the country and have it influence OUR WARS! GTFO OUT OF HERE! Like we need another worldwide holy war that only serves the purpose to take lives over a fairytale.

Equal rights for all.

It is NOT illegal for a church to marry gays if they want. Can you point out one instance where someone was arrested for performing a gay marriage or being in a gay marriage? No, you can't. So stop believing in the lie that gay marriage is "banned" or "illegal" anywhere in the US because it simply isn't true.

Big difference between gay marriage being "illegal" and a state or federal government simply choosing to not recognize it as a marriage.

Then why aren't gays getting married in states that don't allow it and there is a huge effort to have those laws overturned?

Get what laws overturned? The so called "gay marriage bans" as the media labels them? If you actually READ those laws, you would see that ALL they ever do is say that the state will only recognize marriages between a man and woman.

For example, California's Prop 8: "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

Thats a far cry from declaring being a part of a gay marriage a felony.
 
Religion has the privilege to be here. And since there can be such diversity, we have to establish a neutral set a laws for the country that don't adhere to any religion.

For example, if this was a muslim country, then any follower of any other religion can be murdered and the murdered can get away with that.

Here, the muslim murderer will be held for their crimes and vice versa for any other religious person who murders the muslim.

Now for laws such as marriage, Christianity is what influenced to make gay marriage illegal. That takes the rights away from others.

There should be NO law on marriage and it should be up to any religious group to perform those. If it's a christian church performing gay weddings, it should NOT be illegal because they are willing to do so. People should not take other's rights away.



You can follow your religion all you want , but you HAVE to follow OUR RULES. Otherwise, go somewhere else if you don't want to.

Like Mitt Romney/Rick Santorum: They want to have Christianity lead the country and have it influence OUR WARS! GTFO OUT OF HERE! Like we need another worldwide holy war that only serves the purpose to take lives over a fairytale.

Equal rights for all.

It is NOT illegal for a church to marry gays if they want. Can you point out one instance where someone was arrested for performing a gay marriage or being in a gay marriage? No, you can't. So stop believing in the lie that gay marriage is "banned" or "illegal" anywhere in the US because it simply isn't true.

Big difference between gay marriage being "illegal" and a state or federal government simply choosing to not recognize it as a marriage.

Then why aren't gays getting married in states that don't allow it and there is a huge effort to have those laws overturned?

Because they want the blessings of the all powerful government?
 

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