Obamas Choose Elite Private School for Kids

[Red Dawn]

Please stop. Why is it that I am embarassed for you and you are not embarrassed for yourself?

You don't have a response. I'm not surprised.

Well, you were the one that was supposedly for "helping" poor with Newt Gingrich school vouchers.

Let's do some arithmetic. If Newt Gingrich gave some poor family in DC a voucher for 3 grand, and if private schools cost between 20 and 30 grand a year, is it your contention that those poor families have a spare 20 grand a year just lying around to make up the difference for the actual cost of the private school?

You know they don't.

Which means this wasn't about "helping" poor families at all. Its a rightwing gimmick to allow rich people to opt out of funding public education.

 

[xsited1]

I know what the voucher gimmick is dude. And you're not fooling anyone.

Do you think you're going to be able to afford a twenty or thirty thousand dollar a year private school, with a voucher from Newt Gingrich that only comes out to three thousand dollars?

Don't make me laugh. Vouchers are a gimmick to allow rich people to opt out of funding public education.

I seriously doubt you have 25 grand a year just lying around, to make up the difference between the voucher and the actual cost of private school.

Vouchers are a gimmick for 2 reasons:
1. They will allow losers from public schools to infiltrate private schools.
2. They will allow the government more control over private schools which will destroy the quality of private schools.

Obama is right. If you have the means to send your kids to a better school, you should be allowed to do it WITHOUT interference from the government.

 

[jillian]

Jillian, don't look now, but your intolerance for Christians is showing once again. Echo Z, whom I have spoken to privately, understands what I am looking for in school choice. You assume too much and come off looking quite bigoted in the process.

Bunch of garbage. I love how whenever people are told their religion can't be funded by the state or encouraged by the state, they pretend it's some type of intolerance.

I would defend to the death your right to practice your religion in your church, in your community, in your home.

I would fight you tooth and nail about imposing that religion on the rest of us or funding that religion with taxpayer money. I would also fight you because what you want is to take my son's good school and destroy it so you can destroy the separation between church and state.

The argument that this is somehow "intolerance" is the last bastion of someone who has absolutely no valid argument. The problem is you know I'm right about what you want and why you want to do it.

But if you think I would ever agree with allowing the money that makes my son's school great to be diverted to schools that teach religion, you're sadly mistaken. If you want to teach your kid religion, do what I do... PAY FOR IT.

 

[del]

Bunch of garbage. I love how whenever people are told their religion can't be funded by the state or encouraged by the state, they pretend it's some type of intolerance.

I would defend to the death your right to practice your religion in your church, in your community, in your home.

I would fight you tooth and nail about imposing that religion on the rest of us or funding that religion with taxpayer money. I would also fight you because what you want is to take my son's good school and destroy it so you can destroy the separation between church and state.

The argument that this is somehow "intolerance" is the last bastion of someone who has absolutely no valid argument. The problem is you know I'm right about what you want and why you want to do it.

But if you think I would ever agree with allowing the money that makes my son's school great to be diverted to schools that teach religion, you're sadly mistaken. If you want to teach your kid religion, do what I do... PAY FOR IT.

so you'd have no problems with school vouchers if there was no religious instruction involved?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Newsmax.com – Obamas Choose Elite Private School for Kids


A man for the people?

"Al Gore III, the son of former Vice President Al Gore, also attended Sidwell, where tuition is $28,442 at the lower school and $29,442 at the middle and upper schools."

I keep telling you guys to pick on Obama's problems. THIS is not one. Petty whining and bitching.

 

[jillian]

so you'd have no problems with school vouchers if there was no religious instruction involved?

My objections are twofold.

1. It's an intentional effort to destroy public schools. THAT is my major objection.

2. Government isn't in the religion business. That's secondary, but it is THE reason most people who want vouchers pursue that issue.

 

[xsited1]

My objections are twofold.

1. It's an intentional effort to destroy public schools. THAT is my major objection.

2. Government isn't in the religion business. That's secondary, but it is THE reason most people who want vouchers pursue that issue.

We are on the same side of this issue, but for a different reason. Public schools are already sub-standard, so I don't really see how they could get anymore 'destroyed'. I don't want to see the superior choice - private schools - destroyed by the government. That's exactly what will happen if vouchers are allowed.

 

[del]

My objections are twofold.

1. It's an intentional effort to destroy public schools. THAT is my major objection.

2. Government isn't in the religion business. That's secondary, but it is THE reason most people who want vouchers pursue that issue.

i think the reason most people want vouchers is to better educate their kids. i doubt very much that it is an intentional effort to destroy public schools; why do you think it is?

 

[Isolde]

Bunch of garbage. I love how whenever people are told their religion can't be funded by the state or encouraged by the state, they pretend it's some type of intolerance.

I would defend to the death your right to practice your religion in your church, in your community, in your home.

I would fight you tooth and nail about imposing that religion on the rest of us or funding that religion with taxpayer money. I would also fight you because what you want is to take my son's good school and destroy it so you can destroy the separation between church and state.

The argument that this is somehow "intolerance" is the last bastion of someone who has absolutely no valid argument. The problem is you know I'm right about what you want and why you want to do it.

But if you think I would ever agree with allowing the money that makes my son's school great to be diverted to schools that teach religion, you're sadly mistaken. If you want to teach your kid religion, do what I do... PAY FOR IT.

My situation has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with inappropriate placement and services for a child with special needs.

So get off your high fucking horse and debate the facts.

 

[Vel]

My objections are twofold.

1. It's an intentional effort to destroy public schools. THAT is my major objection.

2. Government isn't in the religion business. That's secondary, but it is THE reason most people who want vouchers pursue that issue.

It would appear that you're making unjustified assumptions. Unless you have data that you're not sharing with the board, then it can only be your OPINION, that most people want school vouchers in order to teach religion. People might also be concerned about security for their children, ( Obama isn't the only one concerned about child safety ) drugs and gangs in schools and in general poor quality teaching.
It is also simply your OPINION ( and may I say a paranoid one ) that people are looking for vouchers as a way to destroy public schools. We don't need vouchers for that. All we've needed to destroy the quality of public schools was to have the federal government get involved in them. (NCLB) Education should be left to the states.

 

[Vel]

LOL

And there's the big lie.

If you give poor whites, or poor blacks a voucher for 3 grand, they're still not going to be able to afford private school.

Hell, I make a good salary, and even I couldn't come up with the extra 15 or 25 thousand a year for the private school.

Like you said, its just a rightwing gimmick to defund public schools. It has nothing to do with "helping" poor people.

Your being deliberately obtuse does nothing to further discussion. If you don't realize that the voucher would equal the amount spent per student in a public district AND that not all private schools cost the fortune that the Obama's can afford, perhaps you should check into furthering your own education.

 

[Vel]

I keep telling you guys to pick on Obama's problems. THIS is not one. Petty whining and bitching.

I agree. It's the Obama's decision as parents to educate their children. The only thing about this that would make it worthy of discussion is that D.C spends more per student than any other school district in the nation and that it has some of the most abysmal schools. Maybe throwing money at public education is not the answer.

 

[jillian]

It would appear that you're making unjustified assumptions. Unless you have data that you're not sharing with the board, then it can only be your OPINION, that most people want school vouchers in order to teach religion. People might also be concerned about security for their children, ( Obama isn't the only one concerned about child safety ) drugs and gangs in schools and in general poor quality teaching.
It is also simply your OPINION ( and may I say a paranoid one ) that people are looking for vouchers as a way to destroy public schools. We don't need vouchers for that. All we've needed to destroy the quality of public schools was to have the federal government get involved in them. (NCLB) Education should be left to the states.

It is absolutely not my *opinion* that the people who support vouchers do so because they want a back door means of funding parochial school education. Look at WHO supports vouchers. Ask why. Plus, many, if not most, of the arguments surrounding school vouchers deal with the Constitutionality of funding parochial schools.

This article actually sets out all arguments in a fairly cogent manner.

CYD: School Vouchers

And of course vouchers would destroy public schools. All the funding that goes to make better schools would be diverted away from public education.

And given your last comment about it being "left to the states", I doubt we'd agree on the purpose of government in any event....which is why I left room for the "drown government in a bathtub" types in my argument.

As a final note, I am far from paranoid. I do, however, believe we must zealously protect against religion infringing on government and government infringing on religion.... particularly where it comes to education of easily-influenced children. And I really dislike disingenuous arguments about things not being what they clearly are. It's the old Willie Nelson line, "what are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

I appreciate your response though.

BTW, for what it is worth, I have to admit a bias toward public education. One, I have no desire to spend in excess of $20,000 a year for a private school education for a middle school student. Two, I got a great public school education through high school and then went to a State University. Three, and finally, my son gets an amazing middle school education where he is. Getting to the point where we knew what school accepted him was torturous (and that's a topic for a whole other discussion) but he would never get an education like he is, which is geared for G&T kids, but with a diversity we would never find in private school and the Federal Funding because of that diversity is what adds an incredible afterschool program and other benefits of the public school education he's getting.

So you'll forgive me if for the next six or so years, this is going to be a very big issue for me.

Then we'll start talking about student loans/grants/ and the cost of college.

 

[jillian]

We are on the same side of this issue, but for a different reason. Public schools are already sub-standard, so I don't really see how they could get anymore 'destroyed'. I don't want to see the superior choice - private schools - destroyed by the government. That's exactly what will happen if vouchers are allowed.

Well, as you saw, I really have no complaints about the education my son is getting. My only issue is with the process for admission in middle and high school now.

But if we're on the same side of the issue for whatever reason, that's fine. It's kind of like, "you got chocolate in my peanut butter" to "no. you got peanut better on my chocolate". Doesn't really matter how we approach it. The result is the same.

 

[Shogun]

There is no Hypocrisy unless he is busy out crying like a fucking martyr about paying property taxes that goes to public schools while paying for his daughter's private education. And I don't see him crying about paying taxes that go to public schools. Once again, you silly bastards show how petty you are when trying to witch hunt some drummed up drama sauce.

 

[jillian]

i think the reason most people want vouchers is to better educate their kids. i doubt very much that it is an intentional effort to destroy public schools; why do you think it is?

Some people. But the ones who really want a better education, IMO, tend to fight to make the public schools better or talk about the feasibility of charter schools as competition for public schools. When they talk about "vouchers", if you'll look at the people who want them, it comes down to the "government shouldn't be educating our kids" types and "what do you mean ID isn't science"? types.

It's just what I see among the people making those arguments.

 

[Isolde]

Some people. But the ones who really want a better education, IMO, tend to fight to make the public schools better or talk about the feasibility of charter schools as competition for public schools. When they talk about "vouchers", if you'll look at the people who want them, it comes down to the "government shouldn't be educating our kids" types and "what do you mean ID isn't science"? types.

It's just what I see among the people making those arguments.

Biased tripe and ad hominem attacks never did an argument win.

 

[Silence]

ya'll are fucking insane.

You're actually bitching that Obama is going to pay to send his daughter's to private school, even though they were in private school in Chicago too?

If I could afford to send my daughter to private school I damn sure would! The classes are smaller, the materials are better updated, the teachers are paid better too. I don't fault ANY parent for sending their child to private school.

 

[Isolde]

There is no Hypocrisy unless he is busy out crying like a fucking martyr about paying property taxes that goes to public schools while paying for his daughter's private education. And I don't see him crying about paying taxes that go to public schools. Once again, you silly bastards show how petty you are when trying to witch hunt some drummed up drama sauce.

Being critical of his policies is not a witch hunt.

 

[xsited1]

Well, as you saw, I really have no complaints about the education my son is getting. My only issue is with the process for admission in middle and high school now.

But if we're on the same side of the issue for whatever reason, that's fine. It's kind of like, "you got chocolate in my peanut butter" to "no. you got peanut better on my chocolate". Doesn't really matter how we approach it. The result is the same.

That's usually where the problems start. In my neck of the woods, private schools are vastly superior to public schools.