- Oct 12, 2009
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The really corrupt ones don't get convicted. Heck, they don't even get brought up on charges.
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Obama's Broken Promise Backlash
- Thread starter Sinatra
- Start date
The really corrupt ones don't get convicted. Heck, they don't even get brought up on charges.
- Thread starter
- #62
+
Someone already said this but I would like to reiterrate it...
The fact that he has gone back on his word about CSPAN is a slap in the face of the liberals and the left of centers...
Most centers and rights have already expressed their displeasure with the bill...seeing it on CSPAN will not anger us any further....we already know about the back room deals......
The left denies these deals exist....
So not being on CSPAN is a direct slap in the face of the left...as it is Obama saying to them that he does not wnat them to see that the right has been accurate all along.
Yet the left blindly supports his decision to NOT put it on CSPAN.
- Thread starter
- #63
Democrats want a public option, but no public access to the proceedings.
Just how does a televised proceeding INCREASE the time it takes to pass the bill?
The lack of action by Obama on his promise speaks volumes.
As I reflect, Obama didn't promise us a thing but hope and change.
Very well said!
- Thread starter
- #64
White House: We will NOT discuss broken C-Span promise
...QUESTION: Democrats ran against the very sort of process that is being employed in this health care --
GIBBS: We had this discussion yesterday. I answered this yesterday. Is there anything --
QUESTION: But the President met with members of Congress in the meantime --
GIBBS: And he'll do so today.
QUESTION: -- and pressed them to --
GIBBS: Do you have another question?
And that was the end of that. If the public wants to know why President Obama didn't keep his pledge to hold televised health-care negotations, they'll have to look for answers elsewhere. The White House isn't talking.
White House: We will NOT discuss broken C-Span promise | Washington Examiner
...QUESTION: Democrats ran against the very sort of process that is being employed in this health care --
GIBBS: We had this discussion yesterday. I answered this yesterday. Is there anything --
QUESTION: But the President met with members of Congress in the meantime --
GIBBS: And he'll do so today.
QUESTION: -- and pressed them to --
GIBBS: Do you have another question?
And that was the end of that. If the public wants to know why President Obama didn't keep his pledge to hold televised health-care negotations, they'll have to look for answers elsewhere. The White House isn't talking.
White House: We will NOT discuss broken C-Span promise | Washington Examiner
MaggieMae
Reality bits
- Apr 3, 2009
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I would say that Obama wants it done so that he can move on to the more pressing issue of the economy, especially unemployment. His Ace in the Hole, after all, is, as you say, to come before the American people and say "I tried..." Which will win him kudos from unexpected places.
Okay... I'm not gonna be an asshole about it and keep pressing the point. But I suspect you already understand that CSPAN putting cameras in the room doesn't affect the speed of the process. It's not like cameras make PEOPLE move in slow-motion.
Whatever. I've already said I don't care if it's televised or not. I'm simply making the point that, as usual, the screamers have intentionally made a big deal out of this to the point that it dominates the entire news cycles. They're very good at that.
All year long, they've been screaming that Obama "promised" to have the bill posted online within X-number of days. Then when they discovered that that it was long and complicated, they didn't read it and instead relied on their usual anti-left whatever blather from their favorite right wing source and treated that as the truth about the various draft bills. Trying to get it through their foggy brains that these were DRAFT BILLS and not policy that would take effect tomorrow was an exercise in futility. So I hope you can understand my over-the-top frustration(?) by now, when they're still at it!!
- Thread starter
- #66
Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN
To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."
Sources: Town hall meeting on Aug. 21, 2008, in Chester, Va.
PolitiFact | Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN - Obama promise No. 517:
To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."
Sources: Town hall meeting on Aug. 21, 2008, in Chester, Va.
PolitiFact | Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN - Obama promise No. 517:
MaggieMae
Reality bits
- Apr 3, 2009
- 24,043
- 1,635
- 48
I would say that Obama wants it done so that he can move on to the more pressing issue of the economy, especially unemployment. His Ace in the Hole, after all, is, as you say, to come before the American people and say "I tried..." Which will win him kudos from unexpected places.
Okay... I'm not gonna be an asshole about it and keep pressing the point. But I suspect you already understand that CSPAN putting cameras in the room doesn't affect the speed of the process. It's not like cameras make PEOPLE move in slow-motion.
Ah, you are forwarding the request for an open and honest coverage of one of the single most important legislative vehicles to come from DC decades - a request based upon the oft-repeated promises of candidate, and now President, Obama himself!
You can't expect the Obama apologists to support such a request can you? Oh no, now it is time for as much back-door government dealings as possible!
If you had any more information than what is already at your fingertips on this bill, it would bury you under its own weight.
- Thread starter
- #68
___I would say that Obama wants it done so that he can move on to the more pressing issue of the economy, especially unemployment. His Ace in the Hole, after all, is, as you say, to come before the American people and say "I tried..." Which will win him kudos from unexpected places.
Okay... I'm not gonna be an asshole about it and keep pressing the point. But I suspect you already understand that CSPAN putting cameras in the room doesn't affect the speed of the process. It's not like cameras make PEOPLE move in slow-motion.
Whatever. I've already said I don't care if it's televised or not.
___
Then move along.
This thread is for those who care...
- Thread starter
- #69
Obama promised repeatedly an end to closed-door negotiations and complete openness for the health care talks. But he hasn't delivered. Instead of open talks of C-SPAN, we've gotten more of the same talks behind closed doors at the White House and Congress. We might revisit this promise if there's a dramatic change, but we see nothing to indicate anything has changed. We rate this Promise Broken.
PolitiFact | Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN - Obama promise No. 517:
PolitiFact | Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN - Obama promise No. 517:
MaggieMae
Reality bits
- Apr 3, 2009
- 24,043
- 1,635
- 48
Yeah, like the average house frau in America is going to turn off her stories and watch C-span all afternoon.
More ado-doo about nothing.
They're not worried about hausfraus. They're worried about getting pasted to YouTube.
Oh something will find its way there anyway. It always does. You can bet whomever is chosen for the conference committees will all have their Blackberries ready top capture intriguing off-the-record comments.
- Thread starter
- #71
+
Obama promised repeatedly an end to closed-door negotiations and complete openness for the health care talks. But he hasn't delivered. Instead of open talks of C-SPAN, we've gotten more of the same talks behind closed doors at the White House and Congress. We might revisit this promise if there's a dramatic change, but we see nothing to indicate anything has changed. We rate this Promise Broken.
PolitiFact | Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN - Obama promise No. 517:
- Thread starter
- #72
More cracks in the Democrat's unity...
__
Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
By Ben Pershing
Worried House Democrats held a caucus-wide conference call Thursday to strategize about health-care reform before lawmakers return to Washington next week.
More than 100 members joined in on the call, Democratic aides said, to discuss the differences between the House's health bill and the one passed by the Senate. With Senate Democrats barely able to muster the 60 votes necessary to pass their own bill and President Obama leaning toward the Senate's position on some key issues, House Democrats are increasingly concerned they could be marginalized at the bargaining table.
44 - Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
And a 100 member conference call!!
That must have been interesting.
Oh these Dems are pissing themselves now...
__
Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
By Ben Pershing
Worried House Democrats held a caucus-wide conference call Thursday to strategize about health-care reform before lawmakers return to Washington next week.
More than 100 members joined in on the call, Democratic aides said, to discuss the differences between the House's health bill and the one passed by the Senate. With Senate Democrats barely able to muster the 60 votes necessary to pass their own bill and President Obama leaning toward the Senate's position on some key issues, House Democrats are increasingly concerned they could be marginalized at the bargaining table.
44 - Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
And a 100 member conference call!!
That must have been interesting.
Oh these Dems are pissing themselves now...
- Thread starter
- #73
More...
Liberals are particularly worried that Obama has indicated to negotiators that he wants to preserve the so-called "Cadillac tax" on high-cost health plans, a provision that is included in the Senate bill but not the House measure. Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), co-chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, said several members spoke out on the subject during Thursday's call.
"That position is going to be difficult in the House, and the White House needs to reconcile that," Grijalva said in an interview. On that tax and a host of other issues, he added, "merely to rubberstamp what the Senate does is not enough."
Rep. Joe Courtney (D-Conn.) has enlisted 190 House Democrats to sign a letter declaring their opposition to the tax, which has also been fiercely criticized by labor unions -- some of whose members would be exposed to the tax -- and by other skeptics who fear the tax could hurt the middle class. Defenders of the excise tax say it will put people who buy their own insurance on more equal footing with those who receive insurance through their employers, and that the tax will help reduce costs over time.
Full article here:
44 - Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
Liberals are particularly worried that Obama has indicated to negotiators that he wants to preserve the so-called "Cadillac tax" on high-cost health plans, a provision that is included in the Senate bill but not the House measure. Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), co-chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, said several members spoke out on the subject during Thursday's call.
"That position is going to be difficult in the House, and the White House needs to reconcile that," Grijalva said in an interview. On that tax and a host of other issues, he added, "merely to rubberstamp what the Senate does is not enough."
Rep. Joe Courtney (D-Conn.) has enlisted 190 House Democrats to sign a letter declaring their opposition to the tax, which has also been fiercely criticized by labor unions -- some of whose members would be exposed to the tax -- and by other skeptics who fear the tax could hurt the middle class. Defenders of the excise tax say it will put people who buy their own insurance on more equal footing with those who receive insurance through their employers, and that the tax will help reduce costs over time.
Full article here:
44 - Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
- Banned
- #74
OK, just to make sure I have this right...
We've been having an open national debate about every single tiny portion of the Health Care bill...
It's been being discussed for about 7 months now in both houses of congress, and discussed in VERY open town hall formats for months.
The national media has broadcast all the salient points of the legislation over and over again, and covered every new decision made as a top news story.
But apparently there's been no "transparency".
Sigh...
We've been having an open national debate about every single tiny portion of the Health Care bill...
It's been being discussed for about 7 months now in both houses of congress, and discussed in VERY open town hall formats for months.
The national media has broadcast all the salient points of the legislation over and over again, and covered every new decision made as a top news story.
But apparently there's been no "transparency".
Sigh...
- Oct 12, 2009
- 58,613
- 10,629
- 2,030
More cracks in the Democrat's unity...
__
Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
By Ben Pershing
Worried House Democrats held a caucus-wide conference call Thursday to strategize about health-care reform before lawmakers return to Washington next week.
More than 100 members joined in on the call, Democratic aides said, to discuss the differences between the House's health bill and the one passed by the Senate. With Senate Democrats barely able to muster the 60 votes necessary to pass their own bill and President Obama leaning toward the Senate's position on some key issues, House Democrats are increasingly concerned they could be marginalized at the bargaining table.
44 - Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
And a 100 member conference call!!
That must have been interesting.
Oh these Dems are pissing themselves now...
Step back! She's going to blow!
- Thread starter
- #77
Yeah, no back room deals negotiated behind closed doors then announced after the fact.
Nope, none at all.
If you are against open and accountable government, as promised by the current president many times over, then that is fine - just say it loud n proud...
Nope, none at all.
If you are against open and accountable government, as promised by the current president many times over, then that is fine - just say it loud n proud...
- Thread starter
- #78
More cracks in the Democrat's unity...
__
Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
By Ben Pershing
Worried House Democrats held a caucus-wide conference call Thursday to strategize about health-care reform before lawmakers return to Washington next week.
More than 100 members joined in on the call, Democratic aides said, to discuss the differences between the House's health bill and the one passed by the Senate. With Senate Democrats barely able to muster the 60 votes necessary to pass their own bill and President Obama leaning toward the Senate's position on some key issues, House Democrats are increasingly concerned they could be marginalized at the bargaining table.
44 - Worried House Democrats huddle on health care
And a 100 member conference call!!
That must have been interesting.
Oh these Dems are pissing themselves now...
Step back! She's going to blow!
MaggieMae
Reality bits
- Apr 3, 2009
- 24,043
- 1,635
- 48
Here are some questions and answers about the final effort to reconcile the Senate and House versions of the bill.
Q: What is a conference committee?
A: A conference committee is appointed by the House and the Senate to settle differences between the two bodies on legislation. Who serves on the committee is up to House and Senate leaders, but it usually comprises senior members of the committees that originated the legislation. Both parties are represented, but the committee makeup would reflect the majority control of each chamber. In this case, Democrats control both chambers and a healthcare conference committee would have been controlled by Democrats.
Q: What is the advantage of bypassing a formal conference?
A: The process of going to conference takes time and Democrats are anxious to deliver a healthcare overhaul bill to Obama as quickly as possible, perhaps before his annual State of the Union address to Congress that is expected to take place later in January or early February.
Republicans solidly oppose the Democratic legislation and would likely have used the process of naming a conference to slow down the measure and build more opposition to it before the November congressional elections.
Since no Republicans in the Senate voted for the bill, and only one in the House supported it, Democrats were always going to focus the negotiations on settling differences among themselves.
In theory, a conference committee is suppose to be open to the public, and the cable industry service channel C-Span was eager to broadcast deliberations on the healthcare bill.
The reality is that no matter which party controls Congress, bargaining over legislation takes place behind closed doors. Open conference committee sessions are used for little more than making statements about the bill.
Closed-door talks between the House and Senate are nothing new. Negotiations on President George W. Bush's tax cuts and legislation creating a Medicare prescription drug benefit for the elderly were held in closed-door sessions.
Q: What is the disadvantage?
A: Democrats are taking considerable political heat from Republicans over bypassing the conference process because Obama promised during his presidential campaign to keep deliberations over the healthcare bill open to public scrutiny.
Q: How will the two bills be merged.
A: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will lead negotiations between the two chambers and the White House. There are significant differences over abortion, taxes, insurance subsidies and regulatory control of proposed new insurance exchanges to be worked out. But the two bills are similar in their structure and many analysts believe a final bill will emerge within weeks.
The legislation will have to be submitted to the Congressional Budget Office, the nonpartisan office that analyzes legislation, for an official cost estimate. That process could take up to two weeks. Then the final bill must be passed by the House and Senate before going to Obama to be signed into law.
The legislation could be open to amendment in the Senate, but Reid has some procedural tools he could use to shut out Republican efforts to change the bill. [The same "tools" Republican majority used against the Democrats]
Q+A-Why are healthcare talks behind closed doors? | Reuters
Q: What is a conference committee?
A: A conference committee is appointed by the House and the Senate to settle differences between the two bodies on legislation. Who serves on the committee is up to House and Senate leaders, but it usually comprises senior members of the committees that originated the legislation. Both parties are represented, but the committee makeup would reflect the majority control of each chamber. In this case, Democrats control both chambers and a healthcare conference committee would have been controlled by Democrats.
Q: What is the advantage of bypassing a formal conference?
A: The process of going to conference takes time and Democrats are anxious to deliver a healthcare overhaul bill to Obama as quickly as possible, perhaps before his annual State of the Union address to Congress that is expected to take place later in January or early February.
Republicans solidly oppose the Democratic legislation and would likely have used the process of naming a conference to slow down the measure and build more opposition to it before the November congressional elections.
Since no Republicans in the Senate voted for the bill, and only one in the House supported it, Democrats were always going to focus the negotiations on settling differences among themselves.
In theory, a conference committee is suppose to be open to the public, and the cable industry service channel C-Span was eager to broadcast deliberations on the healthcare bill.
The reality is that no matter which party controls Congress, bargaining over legislation takes place behind closed doors. Open conference committee sessions are used for little more than making statements about the bill.
Closed-door talks between the House and Senate are nothing new. Negotiations on President George W. Bush's tax cuts and legislation creating a Medicare prescription drug benefit for the elderly were held in closed-door sessions.
Q: What is the disadvantage?
A: Democrats are taking considerable political heat from Republicans over bypassing the conference process because Obama promised during his presidential campaign to keep deliberations over the healthcare bill open to public scrutiny.
Q: How will the two bills be merged.
A: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will lead negotiations between the two chambers and the White House. There are significant differences over abortion, taxes, insurance subsidies and regulatory control of proposed new insurance exchanges to be worked out. But the two bills are similar in their structure and many analysts believe a final bill will emerge within weeks.
The legislation will have to be submitted to the Congressional Budget Office, the nonpartisan office that analyzes legislation, for an official cost estimate. That process could take up to two weeks. Then the final bill must be passed by the House and Senate before going to Obama to be signed into law.
The legislation could be open to amendment in the Senate, but Reid has some procedural tools he could use to shut out Republican efforts to change the bill. [The same "tools" Republican majority used against the Democrats]
Q+A-Why are healthcare talks behind closed doors? | Reuters
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