Obamanomics

Discussion in 'Economy' started by ozzmdj, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. ozzmdj
    Offline

    ozzmdj Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,163
    Thanks Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Wolf Creek, Missouri
    Ratings:
    +69
  2. ozzmdj
    Offline

    ozzmdj Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,163
    Thanks Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Wolf Creek, Missouri
    Ratings:
    +69
  3. ozzmdj
    Offline

    ozzmdj Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,163
    Thanks Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Wolf Creek, Missouri
    Ratings:
    +69
  4. HUGGY
    Offline

    HUGGY I Post Because I Care Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    33,727
    Thanks Received:
    3,805
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    Seattle, in a run down motel
    Ratings:
    +6,285
  5. Mad Scientist
    Offline

    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    23,938
    Thanks Received:
    5,211
    Trophy Points:
    270
    Ratings:
    +7,678
    And unfortunately we have a President and Congress who know nothing about increasing economic activity so that the tax receipts will pick up. They only know confiscate and spend while calling it "investment".
    I've been going to Vegas since I was a kid. My wife and I eventually want to buy a home there, maybe a condo. Vegas is like any other city, it has it's good areas and bad. But you definitely have to have self discipline to live there otherwise you'll be broke in no time.
     
  6. Paulie
    Offline

    Paulie Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    31,523
    Thanks Received:
    4,848
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +15,351
    Am I the only one around here that notices that the media seems like it's intentionally fucking with us with economy news?

    One day, they give us an article that says we're almost out of recession, and then the next day we get one that says it's worse than expected. And then the cycle continues.

    Stop listenting to the MSM.
     
  7. ozzmdj
    Offline

    ozzmdj Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,163
    Thanks Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Wolf Creek, Missouri
    Ratings:
    +69
    What is $1.42 trillion? It's more than the total national debt for the first 200 years of the Republic, more than the entire economy of India, almost as much as Canada's, and more than $4,700 for every man, woman and child in the United States.
    My Way News - 2009 federal deficit surges to $1.42 trillion :cuckoo::cuckoo::evil:
     
  8. Neubarth
    Offline

    Neubarth At the Ballpark July 30th

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,751
    Thanks Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Pacific
    Ratings:
    +199
    Is it even possible to pay it off? :confused::eusa_pray::eek:
     
  9. Neubarth
    Offline

    Neubarth At the Ballpark July 30th

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,751
    Thanks Received:
    199
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Pacific
    Ratings:
    +199
    Even the MSM has optimists and pessimists. Look at the data and make up your own mind.:redface:
     
  10. Charles Stucker
    Offline

    Charles Stucker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,071
    Thanks Received:
    225
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +225
    Debt and Deficits

    A Brief History
    Jimmy Carter (D) held the office of president from1977 to 1980, at the end of which the debt stood ~$ 1 trillion. Ronald Reagan (R) and George Bush Sr. (R) inherited both the debt and a large suite of ‘sacred cow’ social programs, along with an economy which went up and down over the twelve years they spent breaking the Soviet Union. Like Carter their conditions were far from optimal. Carter faced an OPEC embargo which smashed the American economy, and Reagan and Bush labored in an attempt to defeat he Soviets without bloodshed by tempting them to bankruptcy with an arms race. Bill Clinton faced neither of these difficulties. He reaped a peace dividend, downsizing and economizing the military to an extent impossible for his two Republican predecessors. He also was blessed with the most vibrant economic boom ever seen anywhere in the globe. A boom caused, not by any policy, but by the internet revolution. George Bush Jr. (R) saw the economy crumble as he entered office; less than a year later the events of 9/11 pushed him into war and he carried the nation with him for seven more years. In his first year Barak Obama has seen the debt soar to ~$12 Trillion. The GDP for 2008 was, according to the IMF, slightly more than $14.4 trillion.

    A Word of Warning
    It does not matter if Clinton could have paid down the debt during the years of the internet boom. It does not matter if Reagan and Bush Senior’s bloodless victory over the Soviets was made Pyrrhic by the cost. It does not matter if Bush Jr. was an idiot or if Barak Obama is surrounding himself with ideologues hostile to the American way of life. The ONLY thing that matters at this juncture is reducing the debt before the IMF takes over and reduces the US to a second tier economy.

    The Budget, Debt and What Might Be Done
    Break the budget into several sections; Pork, Interest, General Operating Expenses, Social Security, Welfare and Other Entitlement Programs, Defense, NASA/Research, and the War on Drugs. Each section adds to the total budget and the current budget is too much, increasing the Debt faster than GDP growth, so each section must be examined for possible reduction. These divisions are not those typically used, but are chosen more for an eye to dividing how they might be reduced.
    Pork could, in principle, be completely eliminated. If Obama is truly serving the interests of the USA he can, and should, refuse to sign a budget with a single identifiable bit of pork. Each congressman and senator should be willing to do the same, but Obama can simply demand an open vote of any override should he use such a veto. He might try the catchy slogan “The Pork Stops Here.” The voters should firmly indicate that they will toss anyone out who overrides a “No Pork” veto.
    Interest on existing debt cannot be changed by any appreciable amount, it is what it is. Only by reducing the debt can future budgets have lower interest.
    General Operating Expenses is a catchall for those costs not covered elsewhere. Like any company in trouble, the employees might get a pay cut. This is doubly true for Senators and Congressmen who should be first in line to volunteer, as part of their love and concern for this great republic.
    Social Security is a tricky issue. The government has spent decades collecting a specific tax to fund Social Security; despite their raiding those funds to create the illusion of lower deficits, the money was supposed to be set aside for retirees. Retirees who are often too old or decrepit to easily get decent jobs. Leave it for a later examination. Phasing down Social Security may prove necessary, and reducing Medicare/Medicaid is vital.
    Welfare and Other Entitlement Programs should be informed the teat has run dry. Potentially more damning, they don’t work; cancel them entirely.
    Defense can be slashed to the bone. Mothball ships, demobilize troops, and pull all the remainder back to US territory.
    NASA/Research is another tricky portion. In general any society which falls behind technologically suffers serious effects. The US, despite deficiencies in primary education, still leads the world in research to an extent that with only ~5% of the global population we have ~25% of the GDP, and, at $47,000, one of the higher GDP per capita. Fortunately the total NASA/Research budget is moderately small relative to these others, so it might be possible to save our future while still making the budget work.
    War on Drugs expenditures represent another failed program and should be eliminated along with welfare.


    Now look at just how much there was to save in the 2008 budget
    Defense 613 Billion
    Social Security 612 Billion
    Medicare and Medicaid 682 Billion
    “Other Mandatory” 303 Billion
    Interest 249 Billion
    Other Discretionary 520 Billion
    Try cutting down to Saves
    Defense 100 Billion 513 Billion
    Social Security 612 Billion 0
    Medicare and Medicaid 500 Billion 182 Billion
    “Other Mandatory” 200 Billion 103 Billion
    Interest 249 Billion 0
    Other Discretionary 200 Billion 320 Billion
    Total Saved 1.118 Trillion
    Total Expenses 1.861 Trillion ~13% of GDP
    Tax 2.861 trillion ~ 20% of GDP and reduce the debt to 13.4 trillion.
    Failure to control the budget may also tempt some states into seceding in order to escape the onrushing economic meltdown. Attempting to defeat them would as surely bankrupt our nation as attempting to defeat the USA ruined the USSR. The above example was not meant as an outline, rather as an indication of how difficult paying the current best has become.

    On Phasing Down Social Security
    Stop all payments to Social Security, replace the current OASI with general tax (perhaps one which is not regressive). Freeze all benefits. Anyone who has not yet paid into Social Security will never receive benefits. Make the cost part of the general budget. This will prove a heavy burden on those retiring twenty years from now as they will receive severely curtailed benefits but will not have much chance to earn after the monkey of debt is off the public’s back, but that is the only option except;
    Cut off social security now. Completely. Do the same with Medicare/Medicaid. The people who are retired and living on OASI checks are the ones who routinely allowed the politicians to spend from that fund. None put their foot down to stop them. Do that and the above sample could save an extra 1.12 trillion allowing the debt to be eliminated that much faster and ending the specter of “under supported future expenses.”
    Before anyone cries “but what happens to all those old people?” let me remind everyone that long before there existed Social Security there were old people. They worked, lived with their children or lived off accumulated savings. Presumably that is what will happen to these old people. After all they asked for ti by reelecting politicians who routinely overspent.
     

Share This Page