Obamacare vs Small Business

[Skull Pilot]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704113504575264802756326086.html

For decades small business owners have been telling anyone who would listen that they need health-care reforms that lower costs. But President Obama and his allies in Congress pushed through a law that will dramatically raise health-care costs and increase the overall cost of doing business. What's more, the federal mandate requiring that nearly all U.S. residents carry health insurance by 2014 seriously threatens our basic constitutional rights and individual freedoms.

This is why the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB), on behalf of small business owners nationwide, has joined the lawsuit with 20 states mounting a constitutional challenge to this devastating new health-care law.

This law is death by a thousand cuts for small business owners. According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the overhaul will cost about $115 billion more than first projected, bringing the total to more than $1 trillion. Small businesses will also now have to deal with an onslaught of new taxes and burdensome paperwork.

Looks like we're finding out what's in the bill a la Bella Pelosi

Supporters say the law will significantly help small businesses, focusing on the much-talked about small business tax credit. But the reality is that the tax credit is complex and very limited because firms qualify based on number of employees and average wages. The credit, which is only available for a maximum of six years, puts small business owners through a series of complicated "tests" to determine if they qualify and how much they will receive. Fewer than one-third of small businesses even pass the first three (of four) tests to qualify: have 25 employees or less, provide health insurance, and pay 50% of the cost of that insurance.

More importantly, the credit is temporary, but health-care cost increases are permanent. When the credit ends, small businesses will be left paying full price. They'll also be forced to deal with all sorts of new taxes, fees and mandates buried in this 2,000-page law.

So what will small businesses do? They will hire less people so as to keep costs down. Owners will weigh very carefully how or if they will expand or they might just decide that they will maintain only a small enough operation to secure their financial needs.

One of these new taxes is a so-called health insurance fee. It's a massive $8 billion tax (that escalates to $14.3 billion by 2018) on insurance companies based on their market share. This tax will be paid almost exclusively by small businesses and individuals because the law specifically excludes self-insured plans, the plans that most big businesses and labor unions offer, from having to pay the tax.

While the health insurance fee was designed to "go after" large health-insurance companies, the reality is that insurers aren't simply going to absorb this new tax; it will be passed on to customers. Specifically, it will be passed on to the plans that 87% of small businesses and individuals buy. A study by the Federal Policy Group published last October found that the amount of taxes passed on to the typical family of four could be $500 or more per year.

So once again labor and big business get a pass and small business is stuck with the tab. i seem to remember telling you idiots who support this abomination that very thing but you didn't believe me.

Adding insult to injury, the law also requires all businesses to issue IRS 1099 forms to document every business-to-business transaction of $600 or more. To someone who's never run a business, this may sound like nothing. But Congress hopes to raise $17 billion in added tax revenues and fees from this new mandate. That's hardly nothing.

The burden of raising that expected revenue falls again on the backs of small business owners who already suffer under unmanageable federal paperwork burdens. What's worse, this new reporting requirement has absolutely nothing to do with health-care reform. It was included to help pay for the nearly trillion-dollar price tag of the bill. Why should small business owners have to pay for a bill that causes them so much harm? They shouldn't, which is why NFIB is fighting against this law in court

So now every business has to send a 1099 not only to contractors paid over $600 a year but to the telephone company, the electric company, the oil company, any and all vendors, hell I'll even have to 1099 the US Post office.

We will be drowned in a morass of government paperwork. Wait until you people who don't own businesses have to start issuing 1099s to everyone you pay more then $600 a year to. And for what? To grow the government even more. The IRS will have to be expanded even more to handle the influx of paperwork. Just in my small business with 10 employees and the business we do will mean I have to generate 75-100 1099s a year instead of the 2 or 3 that I do now.

We also believe the health-care law is unconstitutional. The centerpiece of this law is an individual mandate requiring virtually all Americans to purchase health insurance or pay a fine. We strongly believe that the Commerce Clause of the Constitution does not give Congress the power to force individuals to purchase a private product or face a fine. Requiring individuals to purchase something simply because they are alive is unprecedented. The military draft is the only exception to this, and Congress's authority to enact the draft is provided for in the Constitution, unlike this mandate.

The individual mandate imposes unique burdens on those small business people, including many NFIB members, who are sole proprietors and the least able to afford it. These independent men and women rarely can afford to distinguish between their own "personal" resources and those of their business. The mandate will now force them to spend money on insurance they may not want, rather than using those funds to run and grow their businesses.

If this law is not overturned, then all citizens should be prepared for the long arm of the federal government to reach even further into how we choose to live our lives, spend our money and pursue our own definitions of happiness.

Health-care reform is too important to be based on an unconstitutional mandate. Small businesses need the judicial system—if necessary, the U.S. Supreme Court—to overturn this law to protect them from having to pay for a statute that causes them more harm than good and ultimately infringes on all Americans' personal freedoms.

Tell me what else will you allow the government to mandate because if this abomination is not overturned there will be more and more mandates placed on us for our own good , of course.

 

[RDD_1210]

Your right, this bill does suck...compared to what Obama and Dems originally wanted to do. The original plan would have better addressed keeping costs under control but since no republicans had any interest in helping anything Obama wanted to do, it had no shot of getting off the ground.

This bill however is still better then doing nothing, which is exactly what repubs would have done, nothing at all and continue to let healthcare costs spiral out of control at the mercy of insurance companies.

 

[Claudette]

BS.

The Dems had a majority and passed this bs bill without any help from the Reps. Nor did they want any. The only reason they courted the Reps was so the Reps could share in the blame when the actual cost in money and jobs comes out.

If I ran a small business, or any business, I sure wouldn't be looking to expand or hire anyone. Not with what h/c will cost.

Of course this is just a foot in the door to the Govt takeover of H/C. Barry Boys true agenda. He DOES want us to be just like Europe doncha know.







.

 

[hboats]

Your right, this bill does suck...compared to what Obama and Dems originally wanted to do. The original plan would have better addressed keeping costs under control but since no republicans had any interest in helping anything Obama wanted to do, it had no shot of getting off the ground.

This bill however is still better then doing nothing, which is exactly what repubs would have done, nothing at all and continue to let healthcare costs spiral out of control at the mercy of insurance companies.

Another untruth brought to you by Democrats and the media. The Republicans had health care reform plans of their own. They were brought to the floor and the Democrats shut them down without discussion.

The Republican plans were focused on health care costs, and getting them under control. The Democrats didn't want that.

Rick

 

[RDD_1210]

The Dems had a majority and passed this bs bill without any help from the Reps.

You're right, just like I already said. Republicans had no interest in reforming the healthcare industry.

Nor did they want any. The only reason they courted the Reps was so the Reps could share in the blame when the actual cost in money and jobs comes out

So you make contradicting statements here. First you say they didn't want any help, then you say they "courted" the republicans just so they can lay blame on them. I know it's hard but try and pick which actually happened.

Oh and I do remember watching the live healthcare open discussion that was broadcast on CSpan for something like 8+ hours. Definitely was both Dems and Repubs there. I can't seem to recall any amazing alternate plan for fixing healthcare to come from the republicans. (tort reform is nice but alone can't fix the system and that's the major idea I've heard consistently from Republicans)

 

[RDD_1210]

Your right, this bill does suck...compared to what Obama and Dems originally wanted to do. The original plan would have better addressed keeping costs under control but since no republicans had any interest in helping anything Obama wanted to do, it had no shot of getting off the ground.

This bill however is still better then doing nothing, which is exactly what repubs would have done, nothing at all and continue to let healthcare costs spiral out of control at the mercy of insurance companies.

The Republicans had health care reform plans of their own.

Such as? I'd like to see this plan, please show me.

 

[boedicca]

You're right, just like I already said. Republicans had no interest in reforming the healthcare industry.

That is an absolute crock. Throughout the process, the following items were promoted by the GOP:

1. Reform the tax code in order to decouple insurance from employment (i.e., move the tax deduction to the individual). This then makes the consumer the purchaser, and also addresses the portability issue.

2. Get rid of interstate barriers to competition. There are over 1,300 health insurance companies in the U.S. State regulators restrict competition (which is always the goal of government regulator-company partnerships - to favor a few firms who are close the the regulators). Example: in CA only 6 out of those 1,300 companies are allowed to sell insurance. Open the borders; allow open competition.

3. Tort Reform on the Texas model. Limit punitive and pain and suffering damages (the federal government does this already for suits against itself). Recovery for economic damages based on actual losses. This has been very successful in TX. Instead of emulating the MA fiasco, we should build on the success of the TX reforms.

To say that the GOP offered no alternatives to reform health care is an out and out lie.

 

[hboats]

Your right, this bill does suck...compared to what Obama and Dems originally wanted to do. The original plan would have better addressed keeping costs under control but since no republicans had any interest in helping anything Obama wanted to do, it had no shot of getting off the ground.

This bill however is still better then doing nothing, which is exactly what repubs would have done, nothing at all and continue to let healthcare costs spiral out of control at the mercy of insurance companies.

The Republicans had health care reform plans of their own.

Such as? I'd like to see this plan, please show me.

I've posted it here before. You know how I found it? It took me less than five minutes to get one plan. I googled it. Easy as that to prove the Democrats and media wrong. The Republicans had more than one plan that they presented, and the Democrats didn't even bother to look at them.

And for you to say that the Republicans didn't come to the "summit" with a health care reform plan is a bit of a red herring. At the point of the health care summit the administration had already told them to forget about getting a plan of their own passed. It was going to be Obama's plan or nothing. Don't you recall the Republicans asking Obama and the Democrats to scratch this current plan and work together across party lines to come up with something they could all agree on? I do, and Obama told them "NO!!!!"

Obama pretty much said, "If you don't want to play with my ball then I'm going to take my whole team and leave the playing field. Then I'm going to tell everyone that you forfeited and the press will run with that."

Obama wanted his plan passed and was not about to listen to anything the Republicans had to say. For most of the health care meetings the Republicans weren't invited, and in fact were locked out.

I don't think it suits you to try to re-write this to make the Republicans look like they didn't want to do anything to solve the problem. They were locked out of the process.

Rick

 

[Claudette]

The Dems had a majority and passed this bs bill without any help from the Reps.

You're right, just like I already said. Republicans had no interest in reforming the healthcare industry.

Nor did they want any. The only reason they courted the Reps was so the Reps could share in the blame when the actual cost in money and jobs comes out

So you make contradicting statements here. First you say they didn't want any help, then you say they "courted" the republicans just so they can lay blame on them. I know it's hard but try and pick which actually happened.

Oh and I do remember watching the live healthcare open discussion that was broadcast on CSpan for something like 8+ hours. Definitely was both Dems and Repubs there. I can't seem to recall any amazing alternate plan for fixing healthcare to come from the republicans. (tort reform is nice but alone can't fix the system and that's the major idea I've heard consistently from Republicans)

BS again

If all you heard was Tort reform than you obviously didn't go to the Rep site for anything else. You can go on the Rep site and look up just what they had to offer. They were shut down totally by the Dems who wanted this clusterfuck no reform bill that we got.

The only "help" the Dems wanted from the Reps was for cover for them when the real totals for this clusterfuck come out. Which they didn't get. This is their clusterfuck and theirs alone.

Hell. THey had to bribe their own Dems to support it.

This bill has nothing that addresses the real problem with H/C. The cost. Insurance companies will have to cover everyone. Costs will go up even more.

Oh yeah. Way to go Dems.

 

[syrenn]

Will the new health care plan cover proctology exams? This is the liberal idea of the trickle down theory.

 

[RDD_1210]

If the republicans had such a great plan, why didn't they do something about it during the 8 years Bush was in office?

 

[boedicca]

Non-sequitur. The dems decided to push reform in the middle of a recession without making it a bi-partisan effort. Blaming Bush is B'loney.

 

[Claudette]

Non-sequitur. The dems decided to push reform in the middle of a recession without making it a bi-partisan effort. Blaming Bush is B'loney.

Ahhh. But its all Buussshhhsss fault doncha know??? LOL

 

[hboats]

If the republicans had such a great plan, why didn't they do something about it during the 8 years Bush was in office?

Did the Republicans have control of the House and Senate for all 8 years of Bush? Why did the Democrats wait until Bush was out of office and then push this bill through using reconciliation?

Rick

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Your right, this bill does suck...compared to what Obama and Dems originally wanted to do. The original plan would have better addressed keeping costs under control but since no republicans had any interest in helping anything Obama wanted to do, it had no shot of getting off the ground.

This bill however is still better then doing nothing, which is exactly what repubs would have done, nothing at all and continue to let healthcare costs spiral out of control at the mercy of insurance companies.

Do you even use your brain? There were at least 5 plans to reform health care that had Republican co sponsors introduced over the last few years, and the Democrats in charge just tabled them. Then they get the idea to pass their own version of a plan this year, and promptly shut Republicans out of the discussion from the beginning. Obama claimed on the White House website that the Republicans had no ideas of their own, and then linked to the Republican proposal.

Yet this is all the Republicans fault. Newsflash. This is the reason the Tea Parties exist, because no one is listening to them. The Democrats dug this hole on their own, and the Republicans jumped into it with them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If the republicans had such a great plan, why didn't they do something about it during the 8 years Bush was in office?

Becasue the Democrats wouldn't get together with them and work on it? Pelosi and Reid took advantage of their majorities to reject everything the Republicans suggested, and then shoved something down your throat that is so bad no sane person would vote for it. And they got you to like it by blaming the Republicans. Just because you like the Kool-Aid don't expect everyone else to.

 

[boedicca]

If the republicans had such a great plan, why didn't they do something about it during the 8 years Bush was in office?

Did the Republicans have control of the House and Senate for all 8 years of Bush? Why did the Democrats wait until Bush was out of office and then push this bill through using reconciliation?

Rick

No. They didn't.

Why did the Dems use reconciliation? Because the majority of Americans are against ObamaCare and they were in a frenzy to pass it before they lose power.

It's not about health care - it's all about expanding the size of Government and it's control and power over our lives.

 

[hboats]

If the republicans had such a great plan, why didn't they do something about it during the 8 years Bush was in office?

Did the Republicans have control of the House and Senate for all 8 years of Bush? Why did the Democrats wait until Bush was out of office and then push this bill through using reconciliation?

Rick

No. They didn't.

Why did the Dems use reconciliation? Because the majority of Americans are against ObamaCare and they were in a frenzy to pass it before they lose power.

It's not about health care - it's all about expanding the size of Government and it's control and power over our lives.

Darn it boedicca, I was making a point. I wanted Rod to answer these questions for himself so that he'd think on his own about the point I was making.

Thanks for making the point for me though.

Rick

 

[Queecho Feecho]

For those of you that think allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines would be a solution of sorts in the US health care financing arena, would you mind explaining why?

 

[RDD_1210]

If the republicans had such a great plan, why didn't they do something about it during the 8 years Bush was in office?

Did the Republicans have control of the House and Senate for all 8 years of Bush? Why did the Democrats wait until Bush was out of office and then push this bill through using reconciliation?

Rick

The democrats have pushed for and wanted healthcare reform for years, Dating back to at least Clinton. It was Ted Kennedys major platform and what he worked for the majority of his career. It got shot down under clinton due to lack of republican support. If the republicans had a well rounded and concise plan it absolutely would have passed under Bush if it was ever actually proposed. They didn't need to control the house and senate to get healthcare through because its something the Dems wanted and would have supported. But the republicans didnt push the issue in the Bush years because to them, nothing was really wrong with the system.

Sorry it took so long to respond, I guess I missed this thread somehow and just saw it again when someone else responded.