Obamacare vs. Economic Principles

[Wyatt earp]

From the WSJ.......

Daniel Kessler: The Coming ObamaCare Shock - WSJ.com

the issue in the January issue of Contingencies, the magazine of the American Academy of Actuaries), around six million of the 19 million people with individual health policies are going to have to pay more—and this even after accounting for the government subsidies offered under the law. For example, single adults age 21-29 earning 300% to 400% of the federal poverty level will be hit with an increase of 46% even after premium assistance from tax credits.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Originally meant to expand coverage, Obamacare will do exactly the opposite. Consumers act rationally under economic principles. Here is what will happen:

The American Action Forum sponsored a national poll of Americans aged 18 to 40 in March and April of this year. They were specifically interested in what effects various premium increased would have on a consumer's willingness to purchase healthcare coverage. Respondents were those who already purchase insurance and were supplied with specific information regarding the various scenarios covered in the poll.

Scenario 2:

Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchanger



Regardless, young people have options to buy catastrophic "young invincibles" policies if they don't want the more generous policies that most others in the exchange will buy (if they're not under 26 and instead exercising the option to remain on a family plan, that is).

I.e.:


The Affordable Care Act: Implications for Adolescents and Young Adults

In 2014, young adults under age 30 will have the option to purchase a limited “catastrophic” benefit package to satisfy the requirement that all individuals and families must have insurance coverage for themselves and their dependents, or pay penalties, beginning Jan. 1, 2014. This catastrophic option includes high deductibles but still covers preventive services and three primary care visits. It may appeal to the so-called “young invincibles” who are healthy and unwilling to pay high prices for health insurance, but who will benefit from preventive screenings and primary care services.

Under 30 health insurance through the reform - Apr. 28, 2010

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Healthy twentysomethings may not worry much about insurance, but reform aims to change that -- by creating a low-cost plan just for them.

Legislators crafted a specific provision for the under-30 set because they'll play a critical role in the reform's success -- or failure. About 60 million Americans are uninsured, and about one-third of them are twentysomethings.

I dnk, greenbeard, Obama care dont even really start till October of this year and peole only has two months to sign up or pay the penalty. like they say this is going to be a frickin train wreck if some folks can not even now how to vote in one day...going to be fun to watch....

HHS releases form to apply for Obamacare coverage - May. 1, 2013

The forms are the latest step in the race to have the state- based health insurance exchanges ready for open enrollment starting October 1. At that time, consumers can submit their information through the paper forms, by phone or online. Those filing the paper form will receive a response within one to two weeks on whether they are eligible for expanded Medicaid coverage -- which insures adults with incomes up to 138% of the poverty line in states that agreed to widen their programs -- or for coverage in the exchanges

 

[Wyatt earp]

double post I really have to get a smart phone

 

[Greenbeard]

I dnk, greenbeard, Obama care dont even really start till October of this year and peole only has two months to sign up or pay the penalty. like they say this is going to be a frickin train wreck if some folks can not even now how to vote in one day...going to be fun to watch....

The initial open enrollment period is going to be six months long:

The first open enrollment period will be October 1, 2013 through March 31, 2014 (a 6-month period). Consumers must select a plan by the 15th of the month for coverage to start on the 1st of the following month (but no earlier than January 1, 2014). If health plans are chosen after the 15th, coverage will start on the 1st day of the next following month. For example, if a consumer picks a plan on February 18, coverage will not start until April 1.

While it is a responsibility of the marketplaces themselves to help raise awareness and get people to start shopping in them, it's very much in the interest of insurers (who'll be selling in the exchanges) and providers (who need these people to be insured in order to be properly compensated for their services) to get people into the marketplaces so you're going to hear quite a chorus starting later in the summer and continuing into next spring.

 

[g5000]

The right has tried to make the argument that Obamacare will bankrupt everyone from businesses to the state and federal governments. No one seems to be listening to that claim, so it is reasonable to pursue others until something gains footing that makes people realize, "Hey, maybe this wasn't such a good idea."

I am not agreeing that these claims are bogus. I am just saying that Repubs are now having to think outside of the box for ways to teach Americans what is going to happen.

They were never in the box. Because they are too retarded to comprehend ObamaCare, they decided to just make shit up about it.

And that is why we have ObamaCare today.

You are absolutely delusional. I can't tell whether you are defending ObamaCare or attacking it. The legislators who PASSED Obamacare don't even comprehend it.

Remember Pelosi? "We have to pass it to see what's in it."

There are plenty of people who comprehend the ACA. I am one of them. If you actually read the fucking thing instead of taking your cues from some asshole partisan shitbird, you'd understand it, too.

Consider all the time you idiots spend listening to your masters in the hack press and then parroting what they feed you, and you would discover you have PLENTY of time to read legislation for yourself. Plenty of time. Stop being a playback machine and start reading and thinking for yourselves.

The United States of America is in a historically unique situation.

Our nation is being controlled by the most incompetent President and Democratic party you could possibly ask for. It would be an easy task to steamroll right over their lunacy and stop them at every turn.

And yet they are succeeding in destroying our Republic. Why? Because they have the unprecedented good fortune to be opposed by the biggest collection of psychos, hypocrites, liars, and retards since the founding of the Republican Party.

You can't tell how I feel about ObamaCare? Well, stay tuned. I will be putting together a topic about it within the next 24 hours which will leave no doubt about my feelings.

ObamaCare passed because the asswipes these days who allege themselves to be "conservatives" are retards, psychos, hypocrites, and liars. Nancy Pelosi didn't know what was in the A.C.A.? Fuck me...the GOP can't even spell A.C.A. They made up a bunch of bullshit about the ACA on the fly. They constructed straw men which they then proceeded to tear down, and then they high five each other for destroying their own fantasy!

It does not get more retarded than that.

And now we have a guy who invents another fantasy scenario which is nowhere near based on reality. "Hey, fellas. If ObamaCare required you to set your ass on fire every 30 days, would you like that?"

Duhhhhh, I would hate that."

"Results: Four out of five people polled said they hate ObamaCare..."

You want to get ObamaCare repealed? Then come back to reality, shitbirds. These assholes pouring piss and manufacturing bullshit for your consumption are just as responsible for the destruction of our Republic as the assholes who wrote the legislation which is making it happen. You really have to wonder sometimes if they aren't all in cahoots with each other.

But what sickens me more than anything else is watching the infinitely gullible partisan minions I see here on this forum and around the country who drink their masters' piss and gobble their masters' manufactured bullshit as if they were at a banquet. The credulousness of these people gobsmacks me. It just gobsmacks me. The total lack of critical thinking and willful blindness of these pieces of trash are completely undermining the conservative cause. I am astonished at the bottomless depth of their stupidity.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I dnk, greenbeard, Obama care dont even really start till October of this year and peole only has two months to sign up or pay the penalty. like they say this is going to be a frickin train wreck if some folks can not even now how to vote in one day...going to be fun to watch....

The initial open enrollment period is going to be six months long:

The first open enrollment period will be October 1, 2013 through March 31, 2014 (a 6-month period). Consumers must select a plan by the 15th of the month for coverage to start on the 1st of the following month (but no earlier than January 1, 2014). If health plans are chosen after the 15th, coverage will start on the 1st day of the next following month. For example, if a consumer picks a plan on February 18, coverage will not start until April 1.

While it is a responsibility of the marketplaces themselves to help raise awareness and get people to start shopping in them, it's very much in the interest of insurers (who'll be selling in the exchanges) and providers (who need these people to be insured in order to be properly compensated for their services) to get people into the marketplaces so you're going to hear quite a chorus starting later in the summer and continuing into next spring.

thanks for the fyi... but this is what I dont get. When I went to H.R block in April.... because right now I refuse to get health insurance.. they showed me my penalty in April 2014.. it was only like $257 bucks and climbs to like $400 and something in 2015. So even if it the enrollment period is open as I believe you say to next spring... people will get tax returns short in April of 2014. if they dont get Obama care by 1/1/2013.........

 

[Greenbeard]

thanks for the fyi... but this is what I dont get. When I went to H.R block in April.... because right now I refuse to get health insurance.. they showed me my penalty in April 2014.. it was only like $257 bucks and climbs to like $400 and something in 2015. So even if it the enrollment period is open as I believe you say to next spring... people will get tax returns short in April of 2014. if they dont get Obama care by 1/1/2013.........

The penalty goes into effect for next year, meaning it's reflected in the taxes you file by April 2015.

Anyway, the mandate penalty is for gaps in coverage exceeding three months, so people whose coverage starts on April 1 of next year are fine.

 

[Wyatt earp]

thanks for the fyi... but this is what I dont get. When I went to H.R block in April.... because right now I refuse to get health insurance.. they showed me my penalty in April 2014.. it was only like $257 bucks and climbs to like $400 and something in 2015. So even if it the enrollment period is open as I believe you say to next spring... people will get tax returns short in April of 2014. if they dont get Obama care by 1/1/2013.........

The penalty goes into effect for next year, meaning it's reflected in the taxes you file by April 2015.

Anyway, the mandate penalty is for gaps in coverage exceeding three months, so people whose coverage starts on April 1 of next year are fine.

I really think your wrong about that unless you could provide a link. The HR Block lady turned the computer screen around and showed me the penalty I have to pay in April of 2014 if I dont get health care by 1/1!2013 I would really appreciate it if you can find the law.Because when I asked her about it. She told me they are as confused at that company as we are.

 

[Wyatt earp]

They were never in the box. Because they are too retarded to comprehend ObamaCare, they decided to just make shit up about it.

And that is why we have ObamaCare today.

You are absolutely delusional. I can't tell whether you are defending ObamaCare or attacking it. The legislators who PASSED Obamacare don't even comprehend it.

Remember Pelosi? "We have to pass it to see what's in it."

There are plenty of people who comprehend the ACA. I am one of them. If you actually read the fucking thing instead of taking your cues from some asshole partisan shitbird, you'd understand it, too.

Consider all the time you idiots spend listening to your masters in the hack press and then parroting what they feed you, and you would discover you have PLENTY of time to read legislation for yourself. Plenty of time. Stop being a playback machine and start reading and thinking for yourselves.

The United States of America is in a historically unique situation.

Our nation is being controlled by the most incompetent President and Democratic party you could possibly ask for. It would be an easy task to steamroll right over their lunacy and stop them at every turn.

And yet they are succeeding in destroying our Republic. Why? Because they have the unprecedented good fortune to be opposed by the biggest collection of psychos, hypocrites, liars, and retards since the founding of the Republican Party.

You can't tell how I feel about ObamaCare? Well, stay tuned. I will be putting together a topic about it within the next 24 hours which will leave no doubt about my feelings.

ObamaCare passed because the asswipes these days who allege themselves to be "conservatives" are retards, psychos, hypocrites, and liars. Nancy Pelosi didn't know what was in the A.C.A.? Fuck me...the GOP can't even spell A.C.A. They made up a bunch of bullshit about the ACA on the fly. They constructed straw men which they then proceeded to tear down, and then they high five each other for destroying their own fantasy!

It does not get more retarded than that.

And now we have a guy who invents another fantasy scenario which is nowhere near based on reality. "Hey, fellas. If ObamaCare required you to set your ass on fire every 30 days, would you like that?"

Duhhhhh, I would hate that."

"Results: Four out of five people polled said they hate ObamaCare..."

You want to get ObamaCare repealed? Then come back to reality, shitbirds. These assholes pouring piss and manufacturing bullshit for your consumption are just as responsible for the destruction of our Republic as the assholes who wrote the legislation which is making it happen. You really have to wonder sometimes if they aren't all in cahoots with each other.

But what sickens me more than anything else is watching the infinitely gullible partisan minions I see here on this forum and around the country who drink their masters' piss and gobble their masters' manufactured bullshit as if they were at a banquet. The credulousness of these people gobsmacks me. It just gobsmacks me. The total lack of critical thinking and willful blindness of these pieces of trash are completely undermining the conservative cause. I am astonished at the bottomless depth of their stupidity.

I know your tired and would like to hear a op from you about this, minus the swear words of course......

 

[Greenbeard]

I really think your wrong about that unless you could provide a link. The HR Block lady turned the computer screen around and showed me the penalty I have to pay in April of 2014 if I dont get health care by 1/1!2013 I would really appreciate it if you can find the law.Because when I asked her about it. She told me they are as confused at that company as we are.

The requirement to carry insurance is not in effect this year, it begins next year. Here's the actual law: 26 USC § 5000A - Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage

(a) Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage
An applicable individual shall for each month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.

You'll notice if you follow the link that the first penalties begin for "taxable years beginning in 2014."

That means you don't actually pay anything until 2015. See this handy IRS Questions and Answers on the Individual Shared Responsibility Provision:

23. Will I have to do something on my federal income tax return to show that I had coverage or an exemption?

The individual shared responsibility provision goes into effect in 2014. You will not have to account for coverage or exemptions or to make any payments until you file your 2014 federal income tax return in 2015. Information will be made available later about how the income tax return will take account of coverage and exemptions. Insurers will be required to provide everyone that they cover each year with information that will help them demonstrate they had coverage.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I really think your wrong about that unless you could provide a link. The HR Block lady turned the computer screen around and showed me the penalty I have to pay in April of 2014 if I dont get health care by 1/1!2013 I would really appreciate it if you can find the law.Because when I asked her about it. She told me they are as confused at that company as we are.

The requirement to carry insurance is not in effect this year, it begins next year. Here's the actual law: 26 USC § 5000A - Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage

(a) Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage
An applicable individual shall for each month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.

You'll notice if you follow the link that the first penalties begin for "taxable years beginning in 2014."

That means you don't actually pay anything until 2015. See this handy IRS Questions and Answers on the Individual Shared Responsibility Provision:

23. Will I have to do something on my federal income tax return to show that I had coverage or an exemption?

The individual shared responsibility provision goes into effect in 2014. You will not have to account for coverage or exemptions or to make any payments until you file your 2014 federal income tax return in 2015. Information will be made available later about how the income tax return will take account of coverage and exemptions. Insurers will be required to provide everyone that they cover each year with information that will help them demonstrate they had coverage.

thank you will book mark this thread. and show them next year. we still have another year to deal with this. I thought it was going to happen to fast.

 

[eagle1462010]

Young Adults? Insurance Decisions Dependent on Cost | American Action Forum

Notice the gigantic assumptions American Action Forum made:

Among currently insured respondents, if out-of-pocket premium costs increase even 10 percent, 17 percent of respondents would discontinue coverage and pay the penalty indefinitely, or until an illness prompted them to sign up for coverage. If premiums increase by 30 percent, only 55 percent would continue purchasing coverage, and 45 percent would go without.

The article is completely silent about the fact that people whose incomes are up to 400% above poverty level will see their insurance premiums subsidized by the federal government. Many of these young people will get insurance for FREE!

Let's see THAT polling chart! "How likely will you be to get health insurance if it is free?" "How likely will you be to keep your health insurance if your out of pocket costs DROP by 30 percent?"

Nothing is FREE in this world. Someone has to pay for it. Where is that in Liberal Logic? It isn't.

Those above the 400% range are gonna have to pay for it. Those in the middle class who aren't rich will have to pay more to MAKE IT FREE FOR OTHERS. Yippie, HOORAH FOR THE LIBERAL DRONES. IT'S FREE................................ These people, including myself will pay for this Free Stuff. Obamacare taxes your INSURANCE policy like your buying a Pizza.

This is one of the LARGEST TAX INCREASES IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES. Well to Obama, it's a fine, no it's a TAX, not it isn't, BTW which day is it. But in the Supreme Court it was argued as a Tax.

Riddle me this.........The law and payments are overseen by the IRS, those nice guys, and the payments to those who don't comply go to the Gov't, but Obama kept saying it's ONLY A FINE. To the Liberal boot licking Brigade was he LYING ARE JUST PLAIN STUPID? There's no middle ground there.

Businesses are already preparing for Obamacare. Many are going to part time employees to keep from being punished by the new law. 29 hours a week. Employing those in the lower wage brackets in many cases. So now these FREE AND SUBSIDY PEOPLE, YIPPIE, have to WORK 2 JOBS JUST TO GET 40 HOURS.

There's much more..............but do you really think the big boys in business aren't going to find a way to PASS THESE INCREASES ON TO THE CONSUMER? They will and it will get paid by the very people the Libtards claim to protect.

And the FREE people will go WEEE WEEE WEEEE, kinda like that pig commercial.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Young Adults? Insurance Decisions Dependent on Cost | American Action Forum

Notice the gigantic assumptions American Action Forum made:

Among currently insured respondents, if out-of-pocket premium costs increase even 10 percent, 17 percent of respondents would discontinue coverage and pay the penalty indefinitely, or until an illness prompted them to sign up for coverage. If premiums increase by 30 percent, only 55 percent would continue purchasing coverage, and 45 percent would go without.

The article is completely silent about the fact that people whose incomes are up to 400% above poverty level will see their insurance premiums subsidized by the federal government. Many of these young people will get insurance for FREE!

Let's see THAT polling chart! "How likely will you be to get health insurance if it is free?" "How likely will you be to keep your health insurance if your out of pocket costs DROP by 30 percent?"

Nothing is FREE in this world. Someone has to pay for it. Where is that in Liberal Logic? It isn't.

Those above the 400% range are gonna have to pay for it. Those in the middle class who aren't rich will have to pay more to MAKE IT FREE FOR OTHERS. Yippie, HOORAH FOR THE LIBERAL DRONES. IT'S FREE................................ These people, including myself will pay for this Free Stuff. Obamacare taxes your INSURANCE policy like your buying a Pizza.

This is one of the LARGEST TAX INCREASES IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES. Well to Obama, it's a fine, no it's a TAX, not it isn't, BTW which day is it. But in the Supreme Court it was argued as a Tax.

Riddle me this.........The law and payments are overseen by the IRS, those nice guys, and the payments to those who don't comply go to the Gov't, but Obama kept saying it's ONLY A FINE. To the Liberal boot licking Brigade was he LYING ARE JUST PLAIN STUPID? There's no middle ground there.

Businesses are already preparing for Obamacare. Many are going to part time employees to keep from being punished by the new law. 29 hours a week. Employing those in the lower wage brackets in many cases. So now these FREE AND SUBSIDY PEOPLE, YIPPIE, have to WORK 2 JOBS JUST TO GET 40 HOURS.

There's much more..............but do you really think the big boys in business aren't going to find a way to PASS THESE INCREASES ON TO THE CONSUMER? They will and it will get paid by the very people the Libtards claim to protect.

And the FREE people will go WEEE WEEE WEEEE, kinda like that pig commercial.

And what the hell you going to do about it? the tea party failed dude.....All it did was make unworkable government. you have to deal with it and be more clever about it. then just pouting on forums... What the indivisuals now have to do is find loop holes for now..... plan and attack. think about the loop holes ..... I am........

 

[eagle1462010]

Young Adults? Insurance Decisions Dependent on Cost | American Action Forum

Notice the gigantic assumptions American Action Forum made:


The article is completely silent about the fact that people whose incomes are up to 400% above poverty level will see their insurance premiums subsidized by the federal government. Many of these young people will get insurance for FREE!

Let's see THAT polling chart! "How likely will you be to get health insurance if it is free?" "How likely will you be to keep your health insurance if your out of pocket costs DROP by 30 percent?"

Nothing is FREE in this world. Someone has to pay for it. Where is that in Liberal Logic? It isn't.

Those above the 400% range are gonna have to pay for it. Those in the middle class who aren't rich will have to pay more to MAKE IT FREE FOR OTHERS. Yippie, HOORAH FOR THE LIBERAL DRONES. IT'S FREE................................ These people, including myself will pay for this Free Stuff. Obamacare taxes your INSURANCE policy like your buying a Pizza.

This is one of the LARGEST TAX INCREASES IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES. Well to Obama, it's a fine, no it's a TAX, not it isn't, BTW which day is it. But in the Supreme Court it was argued as a Tax.

Riddle me this.........The law and payments are overseen by the IRS, those nice guys, and the payments to those who don't comply go to the Gov't, but Obama kept saying it's ONLY A FINE. To the Liberal boot licking Brigade was he LYING ARE JUST PLAIN STUPID? There's no middle ground there.

Businesses are already preparing for Obamacare. Many are going to part time employees to keep from being punished by the new law. 29 hours a week. Employing those in the lower wage brackets in many cases. So now these FREE AND SUBSIDY PEOPLE, YIPPIE, have to WORK 2 JOBS JUST TO GET 40 HOURS.

There's much more..............but do you really think the big boys in business aren't going to find a way to PASS THESE INCREASES ON TO THE CONSUMER? They will and it will get paid by the very people the Libtards claim to protect.

And the FREE people will go WEEE WEEE WEEEE, kinda like that pig commercial.

And what the hell you going to do about it? the tea party failed dude.....All it did was make unworkable government. you have to deal with it and be more clever about it. then just pouting on forums... What the indivisuals now have to do is find loop holes for now..... plan and attack. think about the loop holes ..... I am........

i.E. To hell with those who don't like it DUDE............... This is a public forum, and I'll speak my mind. It's a BS law, and even after it takes effect I will say the same.

It's a Trainwreck and is already going to cost over 800 Billion more than originally estimated as the Libs did BS math. Not even counting into the sum the years Obamacare wouldn't be law yet.

Everyone is going to pay the price for this BS law. And as more get hit by it, more will COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. So get used to it. After it starts stinging the public you are gonna hear ALOT MORE COMPLAINTS.