Obamacare continues to kill jobs across the country. Thanks, liberals.

[Oldstyle]

One party was invited to "rubber stamp" what the other party "crafted" (can you REALLY even use that word for such a bad piece of legislation?) behind closed doors. Am I surprised that it's a bad bill? Of course not...it was primarily drafted by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid...two dyed in the wool progressives who are not very bright when it comes to economics or health care.

So we've got a law that is going to destroy jobs at a time when we desperately NEED them. Who's fault is that? Why do we need to completely overhaul something that was just passed?

Oh, please. The bipartisan panel to discuss healthcare reform was carried on live TV. I watched it. The President solicited ideas from the GOP representatives and only Dr. Tom Coburn (R-OK) was willing to engage in substantive discussion. He paid the price for that later.

Ah, yes...President Obama "soliciting" ideas from the GOP! Like when he told Eric Cantor that "elections have consequences...I won." Yeah, he was a regular compromise MACHINE, Old!

Come on...the progressives rolled into power in 2009 with super majorities in the House and Senate and as Rahm Emanuel put it so succinctly when asked about working with the GOP..."Fuck 'em...we've got the votes!" That was the attitude of the Obama White House when they dealt with the GOP. Yeah, we'll meet with you...we'll even let you talk from time to time but as far as adopting anything that you propose? That isn't happening because we don't NEED your votes.

 

[Greenbeard]

Ah, yes...President Obama "soliciting" ideas from the GOP! Like when he told Eric Cantor that "elections have consequences...I won." Yeah, he was a regular compromise MACHINE, Old!

Come on...the progressives rolled into power in 2009 with super majorities in the House and Senate and as Rahm Emanuel put it so succinctly when asked about working with the GOP..."Fuck 'em...we've got the votes!" That was the attitude of the Obama White House when they dealt with the GOP. Yeah, we'll meet with you...we'll even let you talk from time to time but as far as adopting anything that you propose? That isn't happening because we don't NEED your votes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5AmhI9g7o]Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Oldstyle]

For your information, insurance costs have been going up faster since obamacare was passed.

September 11, 2012

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The cost of employer-sponsored family health insurance premiums jumped again this year, but the rate at which they rose slowed to historic lows, according to a new survey Tuesday.

How much did they go up the year before? You know...when the insurance companies were increasing their rates BEFORE they were precluded from doing so? I know my rates jumped 20% and I know that I'm not alone in that.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ah, yes...President Obama "soliciting" ideas from the GOP! Like when he told Eric Cantor that "elections have consequences...I won." Yeah, he was a regular compromise MACHINE, Old!

Come on...the progressives rolled into power in 2009 with super majorities in the House and Senate and as Rahm Emanuel put it so succinctly when asked about working with the GOP..."Fuck 'em...we've got the votes!" That was the attitude of the Obama White House when they dealt with the GOP. Yeah, we'll meet with you...we'll even let you talk from time to time but as far as adopting anything that you propose? That isn't happening because we don't NEED your votes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5AmhI9g7o]Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill - YouTube[/ame]

Are you saying that WASN'T the attitude of the Obama White House back in 2009, Greenie? Come on...we both know that it was. They came in holding all the cards and they made sure that the Republicans knew it.

 

[Greenbeard]

Are you saying that WASN'T the attitude of the Obama White House back in 2009, Greenie? Come on...we both know that it was. They came in holding all the cards and they made sure that the Republicans knew it.

That video from the markup sums up everything about that legislative process. Republicans had every opportunity to participate in a meaningful way but at every turn they ignored the Democrats' olive branch and opted for political theater instead. Their conduct and lack of good faith was shameful and if the final legislation doesn't look more like what they wanted, they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[bripat9643]

For your information, insurance costs have been going up faster since obamacare was passed.

September 11, 2012

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The cost of employer-sponsored family health insurance premiums jumped again this year, but the rate at which they rose slowed to historic lows, according to a new survey Tuesday.

In Ohio, Obamacare to Increase Individual Insurance Premiums by 55-85% - Forbes

In Ohio, Obamacare to Increase Individual Insurance Premiums by 55-85%

In Nevada, Obamacare to Increase Individual Insurance Premiums by 11-30% - Forbes

In Nevada, Obamacare to Increase Individual Insurance Premiums by 11-30%

Fact check: 'Obamacare' hasn't yet reduced health insurance costs - Los Angeles Times

Fact check: 'Obamacare' hasn't yet reduced health insurance costs

Health Care Costs Still Going Up Under Obamacare? Unthinkable! - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online

Health Care Costs Still Going Up Under Obamacare? Unthinkable!

Insurance industry warns of higher rates, as ObamaCare supporters see long-term fix | Fox News

Insurance industry warns of higher rates, as ObamaCare supporters see long-term fix

 

[Greenbeard]

Ah, so by "have been" you meant "maybe will someday."

 

[Oddball]

Are you saying that WASN'T the attitude of the Obama White House back in 2009, Greenie? Come on...we both know that it was. They came in holding all the cards and they made sure that the Republicans knew it.

That video from the markup sums up everything about that legislative process. Republicans had every opportunity to participate in a meaningful way but at every turn they ignored the Democrats' olive branch and opted for political theater instead. Their conduct and lack of good faith was shameful and if the final legislation doesn't look more like what they wanted, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Nice re-write of history, Cass.

I don't suppose this counts as political theater, does it?

 

[bripat9643]

Ah, so by "have been" you meant "maybe will someday."

I don't see any dramatic improvement in the rate of increase:

 

[Greenbeard]

I don't see any dramatic improvement in the rate of increase:

That graph is why your statement that "insurance costs have been going up faster since obamacare was passed" is false.

Nice job. You've got a real future in fack-checking yourself.

 

[PoliticalChic]

These people are full of it, medical and insurance costs were on a ruinous rise before anyone did a thing and were a leading cause of layoffs and terminations, if special interests had not insisted we stick to the employer provided group coverage scam we have always had then perhaps so many employers would not find themselves still in a position of being on the hook for insurance costs.

Just another lie that you were too docile to research for yourself.


Increases in healthcare expenditures:
2003 8.6%
2004 6.9%
2005 6.5%
2006 6.7%
2007 6.1%
Compare to 10.5% in 1970 and 13% in 1980

For purposes of comparison, education:
Tuition at private colleges and universities has increased anywhere from 5% to 13% every year since 1980. "
The Cost of a College Education

And for primary and secondary school:
"Based on statistics from the US Department of Education, the average cost of educating a student in elementary and secondary schools has risen from $6,200 in 1991 to $11,000 in 2005 an increase of 85%. "
The Cost of a College Education

 

[bripat9643]

I don't see any dramatic improvement in the rate of increase:

That graph is why your statement that "insurance costs have been going up faster since obamacare was passed" is false.

Nice job. You've got a real future in fack-checking yourself.

The rate of increase hasn't declined, as you claimed, and very little of the law has gone into effect so far. Insurance companies are projecting big increases, contrary to the claims of Obama and his army of fluffers.

 

[kiwiman127]

These people are full of it, medical and insurance costs were on a ruinous rise before anyone did a thing and were a leading cause of layoffs and terminations,

Really? I suppose you have some actual evidence to back this claim up. For your information, insurance costs have been going up faster since obamacare was passed.

FAIL

if special interests had not insisted we stick to the employer provided group coverage scam we have always had then perhaps so many employers would not find themselves still in a position of being on the hook for insurance costs.

You can blame Obama and the Dims for that. No Republicans voted for this monstrosity.

The cost of healthcare insurance rose 131% between 1999-2009 and before Obamacare. How much has healthcare insurance gone up since Obamacare was enacted?

 

[bripat9643]

The cost of healthcare insurance rose 131% between 2000-2009 and before Obamacare. How much has healthcare insurance gone up since Obamacare was enacted?

Look at the chart, turd. It shows the rate of increase hasn't changed since Obamacare was passed.

 

[Greenbeard]

The rate of increase hasn't declined, as you claimed, and very little of the law has gone into effect so far. Insurance companies are projecting big increases, contrary to the claims of Obama and his army of fluffers.

I said premium growth in the group market this year was 4%, which is low by historical standards. That's based on the KFF/HRET survey, which just happens to be the source of the data on which your graph was based.

“Premium growth is at historic lows, which greatly benefits workers. Continuing to ensure that Americans have coverage options that are affordable is vitally important for our nation’s health,” said Maulik Joshi, Dr.P.H., president of HRET and senior vice president for research at the American Hospital Association.

 

[kiwiman127]

The cost of healthcare insurance rose 131% between 2000-2009 and before Obamacare. How much has healthcare insurance gone up since Obamacare was enacted?

Look at the chart, turd. It shows the rate of increase hasn't changed since Obamacare was passed.

But earlier you said,,,"Really? I suppose you have some actual evidence to back this claim up. For your information, insurance costs have been going up faster since obamacare was passed"
You walked right into that one, didn't you?

 

[bripat9643]

The rate of increase hasn't declined, as you claimed, and very little of the law has gone into effect so far. Insurance companies are projecting big increases, contrary to the claims of Obama and his army of fluffers.

I said premium growth in the group market this year was 4%, which is low by historical standards. That's based on the KFF/HRET survey, which just happens to be the source of the data on which your graph was based.

Kaiser has been in the tank for Obamacare from day one. Their information isn't credible.

Furthermore, that graph doesn't have numbers on it for each year. Here's one that does:

(5429 - 5049)/5049 = 7.5% increase.

That doesn't support your claim.

 

[Greenbeard]

If you're looking at employee-only coverage (which you now seem to be doing), the rate of increase is even smaller. Across group plans, the employee-only premium this year is $5,615 ($951 for the employee's contribution, $4,664 for the employer's contribution). That's Exhibit B on page 2 of KFF's survey report from this year.

Compare to last year's numbers: (5615 - 5429) / 5429 = 3.4% increase.

 

[Oldstyle]

Are you saying that WASN'T the attitude of the Obama White House back in 2009, Greenie? Come on...we both know that it was. They came in holding all the cards and they made sure that the Republicans knew it.

That video from the markup sums up everything about that legislative process. Republicans had every opportunity to participate in a meaningful way but at every turn they ignored the Democrats' olive branch and opted for political theater instead. Their conduct and lack of good faith was shameful and if the final legislation doesn't look more like what they wanted, they have no one to blame but themselves.

What "olive branch" was that, Greenie? Oh, sure...deals were being made with reluctant Democrats like Ben Nelson to buy his vote for what he knew was terrible legislation but Republicans by and large were excluded from the process. That legislation was written by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid behind closed doors. It's awful law..doesn't do what the American people wanted it to do...namely lower health care costs...never even touched on tort reform as a payback to the trial lawyers who ponied up major bucks to get Democrats elected in 2008...and it's costs were deliberately misstated by progressives to hide what the American people would ultimately have to pay for this monstrosity.

Why would Republicans be to blame for ObamaCare? Because they wouldn't vote for it? That makes sense to you in what way?

 

[Oldstyle]

I noticed you declined to answer my question to you about insurance premiums going up substantially before ObamaCare locked in. So there was only a small increase this year but the big bump came prior to that. So remind me again how it is that ObamaCare is supposed to have lowered my health care costs?