obamacare and the truth

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by bigrebnc1775, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. bigrebnc1775
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    bigrebnc1775 Diamond Member

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    It appears that the truth about obama care is finally coming out.


    » Obamacare won't decrease health care costs for the government. According to Medicare's actuary, it will increase costs. The same is likely to happen for privately funded health care.

    » As written, Obamacare covers elective abortions, contrary to Obama's promise that it wouldn't. This means that tax dollars will be used to pay for a procedure millions of Americans across the political spectrum view as immoral. Supposedly, the Department of Health and Human Services will bar abortion coverage with new regulations but these will likely be tied up for years in litigation, and in the end may not survive the court challenge.

    » Obamacare won't allow employees or most small businesses to keep the coverage they have and like. By Obama's estimates, as many as 69 percent of employees, 80 percent of small businesses, and 64 percent of large businesses will be forced to change coverage, probably to more expensive plans.

    » Obamacare will increase insurance premiums -- in some places, it already has. Insurers, suddenly forced to cover clients' children until age 26, have little choice but to raise premiums, and they attribute to Obamacare's mandates a 1 to 9 percent increase. Obama's only method of preventing massive rate increases so far has been to threaten insurers.



    Read more at the Washington Examiner: Examiner Editorial: Obamacare is even worse than critics thought | Washington Examiner
     
  2. Cuyo
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    Cuyo Training a Guineapig army

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    You're right. Obamacare's a mess. We should just cut the foreplay and go single payer, like we should've done from the start.
     
  3. bigrebnc1775
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    bigrebnc1775 Diamond Member

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    and you think it's messed up now wait until that happens. Free is not free. When people no longer have a job who will pay for your free single payer healthcare coverage?
     
  4. Charles_Main
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    Charles_Main AR15 Owner

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    It is a train wreck
     
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  5. Charles_Main
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    Charles_Main AR15 Owner

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    As soon as you can explain in rational terms how single payer will lower the cost of health care, and not cost so much as to bankrupt us, And be kept from ending up rampant with corruption waste and abuse, Ill start listening.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  6. Cuyo
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    Cuyo Training a Guineapig army

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    Interestingly, "Rampant waste and abuse" are common in private health care too; Except they're legal and simply called "Profits."

    Consumers (like yourself) always give me a chuckle when they indicate that they think private health insurance is in their best interests. All the negatives you claim would happen with public insurance already happen in private insurance; Both clandestine, and right out in the open.

    - You argue that your choice of doctors will be limited under a public insurance program; That's already true under your HMO.

    - You argue that bureaucrats will abuse the system for their own personal gain; That's already true under your HMO.

    - You argue that any such system will be fundamentally inefficient; That's already true under your HMO. (Interestingly, Medicare operates at about 3% overhead, vs. something like 20% in the private market)

    Around this point, you become frustrated and blurt out something like "It's... It's... It's SOCIALISM!"

    So here's your "Rational terms" on how single payer will reduce the cost of healthcare. What costs more, for a guy working at, say, GE? To use the group plan in a company of some 300,000? Or for that person to walk into an insurance agent by himself and purchase a single plan?

    Of course it's cheaper to use the group plan, because insurance agencies broadcast their exposure over a much larger body of people. That way, when a guy breaks his leg, the entire group plan does not become unprofitable.

    And that's all single payer is - A big fuckin group plan. I'll say it again - Single payer is nothing more than a BIG FUCKIN' GROUP PLAN. Nothing more, I don't care what all the dittohead ne'er-do-wells have told you. It's not a takeover of healthcare, it's not "Socialized Medicine," it's nothing more than a group plan that encompasses all the people of a country.

    If it was just you, the fact that you believe private healthcare is in your best interests would be laughable. The fact that there are actually millions of people like you that have been manipulated; Been tricked by the very people that make money on your illness, and swallowed all the lies down like a flaming Dr. Pepper shot; is actually very sad.
     
  7. Charles_Main
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    Charles_Main AR15 Owner

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    Who ever said that. Thinking a government run system will cost to much, and not be effective is not the same as thinking private insurance is perfect. You are falling into the trap of Believing the Dems who say anyone who is opposed to their plan. just wants to do nothing at all. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have offered many practical approaches to increasing access and lowering costs. We are simply ignored and dismissed and then lied about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
  8. Cuyo
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    Cuyo Training a Guineapig army

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    Sorry, the republicans did NOTHING in some 30 years they've been in power, and they brought out ALL the big guns to prevent reform this time around. They have nothing, because the truth is they DID NOT, and DO NOT, want any healthcare reform. The way we've been doing business up to this point has been working out JUST SWIMMINGLY for their true constituency.

    The Republicans advocate for the very wealthy. 99% of you are just tricked into following them with sloganeering. But in the words of George Carlin, It's all bullshit, and it's bad for ya.

    The only things they Republicans brought to the table in the healthcare debate were 1 of 2 categories: 1. Eliminate consumer protections to further benefit the insurance companies, with the hope that maybe they'll pass some of that down to their customers (TORT REFORM), or 2. Eliminate state-based standards so insurance companies could flee to safe-haven states which would permit them to further screw consumers, again with the imagined hopes that they'd pass some of the additional profits on to the customer (Selling across State lines).

    Other than that, they did nothing but lie, obfuscate, and obstruct. If they played nice there was ample, even an absurd amount of opportunity for the minority party to come to a very favorable compromise. They chose their own path in this mess.

    Frankly, the HCR that ultimately passed is dead middle-of-the-road. It's hardly a leftist endeavor, as no government plan, either optional or otherwise, was included.
     
  9. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    A 1 to 9 percent increase? Isn't this less than the yearly increases we have seen over the last decade? :wtf:
     
  10. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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