Obama wants to wean us from oil and make us dependent on green

[flacaltenn]

I think you are confused. It is the Saudis that want us dependent on oil. Here's a quote:

"We don't want the West to go and find alternatives, because, clearly, the higher the price of oil goes, the more they have incentives to go and find alternatives," said Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, who is listed by Forbes as the 26th richest man in the world.

Saudi prince calls for lower oil prices to keep U.S. dependent

Yeah --- Tell me about it.. My crack dealer NEVER puts the crap on sale. It's always his price or I got to drive like 80 miles to score..

 

[flacaltenn]

Here in arizona..and i know this is totally local.....we need to look more into solar energy. This entire area should be run on solar energy and the cost should be much much cheaper for it.

I want to make my home solar powered but you need a lot of front money in order to get the rebates. It sucks.

This entire city should be run on solar power.

If you like paying for TWICE the power generation capability that you need. And TWICE the maintenance that you need. Then by all means -- do it. Phoenix in the summertime consumes at least 80% of it's mid-day peak at 10 PM. Meaning that you need a back-up generation to cover the evenings of that magnitude. So AT BEST - solar can reduce that by only 20% of peak load. (That's why you hear all these Green proclamations of 20% by 2020 crap). But the truth is that you are wasting the heat from the back-up plants and reducing their lifetimes every time you try to switch them off/on. That wasted energy should be subtracted from the solar generated load in an honest debate.

 

[Seawytch]

Here in arizona..and i know this is totally local.....we need to look more into solar energy. This entire area should be run on solar energy and the cost should be much much cheaper for it.

I want to make my home solar powered but you need a lot of front money in order to get the rebates. It sucks.

This entire city should be run on solar power.

If you like paying for TWICE the power generation capability that you need. And TWICE the maintenance that you need. Then by all means -- do it. Phoenix in the summertime consumes at least 80% of it's mid-day peak at 10 PM. Meaning that you need a back-up generation to cover the evenings of that magnitude. So AT BEST - solar can reduce that by only 20% of peak load. (That's why you hear all these Green proclamations of 20% by 2020 crap). But the truth is that you are wasting the heat from the back-up plants and reducing their lifetimes every time you try to switch them off/on. That wasted energy should be subtracted from the solar generated load in an honest debate.

Know what the great thing is? The source of the power is free...and won't run out anytime soon (like OIL)

 

[skookerasbil]

Here in arizona..and i know this is totally local.....we need to look more into solar energy. This entire area should be run on solar energy and the cost should be much much cheaper for it.

I want to make my home solar powered but you need a lot of front money in order to get the rebates. It sucks.

This entire city should be run on solar power.

If you like paying for TWICE the power generation capability that you need. And TWICE the maintenance that you need. Then by all means -- do it. Phoenix in the summertime consumes at least 80% of it's mid-day peak at 10 PM. Meaning that you need a back-up generation to cover the evenings of that magnitude. So AT BEST - solar can reduce that by only 20% of peak load. (That's why you hear all these Green proclamations of 20% by 2020 crap). But the truth is that you are wasting the heat from the back-up plants and reducing their lifetimes every time you try to switch them off/on. That wasted energy should be subtracted from the solar generated load in an honest debate.

Know what the great thing is? The source of the power is free...and won't run out anytime soon (like OIL)

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD

a pipe dream s0n.................

Lefty naive assholes never factor cost into their thinking..............Forecast for solar power: Sunny - USATODAY.com




Be my guest and buy one for the roof of your house for about $60,000.00. Happy now!!!!

 

[peach174]

Look at what happened to Spain who invested heavily in Green.
Their unemployment rate is 21.3
And our President wants to do the same thing?
Right now we need to invest in oil and gas while at the same time continue to look for cheaper alternative fuels.
Anytime Government tries to force anything it never works.

 

[skookerasbil]

Look at what happened to Spain who invested heavily in Green.
Their unemployment rate is 21.3
And our President wants to do the same thing?
Right now we need to invest in oil and gas while at the same time continue to look for cheaper alternative fuels.
Anytime Government tries to force anything it never works.

Indeed..........simply a scheme by the radical left to give away a few jobs in exchange for lots and lots of jobs. In 2011.........its a DEAD issue thank God.

 

[konradv]

Look at what happened to Spain who invested heavily in Green.
Their unemployment rate is 21.3
And our President wants to do the same thing?
Right now we need to invest in oil and gas while at the same time continue to look for cheaper alternative fuels.
Anytime Government tries to force anything it never works.

Indeed..........simply a scheme by the radical left to give away a few jobs in exchange for lots and lots of jobs. In 2011.........its a DEAD issue thank God.

Fess up. You don't know what you're talking about. You're one of those volcanic CO2 nuts that's having to backtrack now that you realize volcanic eruptions actually lower temps.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Price of rare earth elements, which Alaska has in abundance, are skyrocketing | Alaska Dispatch

GIRDWOOD -- Policymakers have been worrying for some time that China, which produces and supplies 97 percent of the world’s rare earth elements, has been artificially inflating the price of REEs by cutting back on production. According to the India-based Business Standard, China has “clamped on mining and cut export quotas, boosting prices and sparking concerns among overseas users like Japan.”

A recent report by Industrial Minerals, a Canada-based mining industry publication, confirms that prices of REEs have been skyrocketing. Some elements have risen a staggering 142 percent, according to the report.

The cost of dysprosium oxide, used in magnets, lasers and nuclear reactors, for example, has risen to about $1,470 a kilogram from $700 to $740 at the start of the month.

Enter Alaska. A prospective mine at Bokan Mountain near Ketchikan, to name just one, is thought to be one of the three largest sources of REEs in the U.S., probably the largest for dysprosium.

All told, Bokan Mountain is thought to hold about 3.8 million tons of REEs. As U.S. Sen. Lisa Murkowski put it, "more than enough to break China's stranglehold on the market and protect America's access to the rare earths that are vital to the production of cutting-edge technologies in this country."

Alaska Department of Natural Resources Commissioner Dan Sullivan recently delivered to a U.S. House subcommittee last week in testimony on a couple of pieces of legislation aimed at finding and developing REEs. Read Alaska Dispatch coverage of his testimony here. And more coverage on REEs here, and here.

There’s been some buzz about investing in Alaska’s REEs at the Arctic Imperative Conference, taking place now until June 21. Check back for updates.

Aren't most of those rare earths under the ANWR? If environmentalists won't let us drill for oil, what makes you think they will let us dig great big holes in the ground?

 

[waltky]

Thought he was s'posed to be the 'green' President...

Where Are Those White House Solar Panels?
Tuesday, June 21, 2011 WASHINGTON (AP) - Last October, the Obama administration announced plans to install solar panels on the roof of the White House by the spring of this year, returning the power of the sun to the pinnacle of prominence a quarter-century after Jimmy Carter's pioneering system was taken down.

Spring has come and gone, and the promised panels have yet to see the light of day. Administration officials blame the complexities of the contracting process, and say the solar project is still an active one. But they can't say when it'll be complete. Environmental groups say the symbolism is telling -- and disappointing. "On we'll go," sighed Bill McKibben, founder of the climate activist group 350.org. "One more summer of beautiful, strong sunlight going to waste, just bouncing off the White House roof." McKibben and other environmentalists say the failure to meet its own deadline reflects an administration that's been long on green rhetoric but sometimes disappointingly short on practical accomplishments.

In last fall's announcement, at a conference of government officials and environmental groups, Energy Secretary Steven Chu was specific. "I'm pleased to announce that, by the end of this spring, there will be solar panels and a solar hot water heater on the roof of the White House," he wrote that day on his departmental website. Nancy Sutley, chairwoman of the Council on Environmental Quality, added that by installing the system on the most famous roof in America, President Barack Obama was "underscoring (his) commitment to lead and the promise and importance of renewable energy in the United States."

McKibben, who along with other environmentalists had met with White House officials to urge such an installation, was surprised and gratified by the announcement a mere two weeks later. But the missed deadline has left him downcast. "Nine months is a pretty long time. You can have a baby in that time," he said. "On the list of things that get done, this isn't all that hard. It doesn't require SEAL Team 6. It just requires a good-faith effort. You can just open the Yellow Pages and get page after page of solar installers."

Solar power advocates note that rooftop arrays are no longer the expensive oddity they were in Carter's day. Depending on their locations, homeowners can install systems that will pay for themselves over time. Administration officials counter that the White House isn't just any old home.

MORE

 

[konradv]

Look at what happened to Spain who invested heavily in Green.
Their unemployment rate is 21.3
And our President wants to do the same thing?
Right now we need to invest in oil and gas while at the same time continue to look for cheaper alternative fuels.
Anytime Government tries to force anything it never works.

Indeed..........simply a scheme by the radical left to give away a few jobs in exchange for lots and lots of jobs. In 2011.........its a DEAD issue thank God.

Fess up. You don't know what you're talking about. You're one of those volcanic CO2 nuts that's having to backtrack now that you realize volcanic eruptions actually lower temps.

Why so silent skooks?!?!

 

[flacaltenn]

konradv:

I have no idea what a skook is. Not interested, even if I am one.. But the thread is dead because no one wants to defend your precious "alternatives".

Solar is a fair weather, geographically restricted, daytime only PEAKING source. AND

Wind is an overblown, oversold, bird mangling, noise polluting, SPORADIC source.

Thus --- there are NO major alternatives for 24/7/365 power systems being offered to the public by the eco-frauds.

GO AHEAD -- and use these interesting crutches. SPEND the nation's gold on them. The rest of us are gonna concentrate on the science and economics of getting energy to be PLENTIFUL and CHEAP. So that we can continue to move this country forward.

Now go put some pants on -- Emperor..

 

[konradv]

konradv:

I have no idea what a skook is. Not interested, even if I am one.. But the thread is dead because no one wants to defend your precious "alternatives".

Solar is a fair weather, geographically restricted, daytime only PEAKING source. AND

Wind is an overblown, oversold, bird mangling, noise polluting, SPORADIC source.

Thus --- there are NO major alternatives for 24/7/365 power systems being offered to the public by the eco-frauds.

GO AHEAD -- and use these interesting crutches. SPEND the nation's gold on them. The rest of us are gonna concentrate on the science and economics of getting energy to be PLENTIFUL and CHEAP. So that we can continue to move this country forward.

Now go put some pants on -- Emperor..

What alternatives would that be? Have you even bothered to read the thread? Tell me what alternatives I advocate. If you don't know who skooks is, you really don't know shit, so why would I have any inclination to do anything you say? I'd rather go naked than clothe myself in the philosophical RAGS of someone who describes people trying to solve the energy problem as "eco-frauds".

 

[flacaltenn]

Upon further review.... the reciever of my insulting response was ruled totally in bounds.. I apologize for hurling it at you konradv...

Several posters jumped to your defense and explained the "skooks" feud..

But as to the reason this thread is dead -- my theory stands for the eco-frauds to consider

 

[Old Rocks]

The combination of wind, solar, and geo-thermal could easily power our nation. Both geo-thermal and solar thermal is 24/7 power, pv solar is during the time of most use, and wind fills gaps for all.

You can go the the MIT study on geo-thermal for a good look at the potential there. Columbia University of Missouri has an engineer that is working on a pv solar that would be 95% efficient. There are two companies, just in Portland, Oregon, alone, working on EV batteries that will reduce the cost by a factor of three, with an increase by the same amount in power stored.

You are in the position of someone looking at a big screen TV ten years ago and doing the Neener-neener act because no one will pay $10,000 for one. Tech, especially solid state, moves fast now. I see no problem in having the ability to supply nearly 100% of our power within the coming decade from non-nuclear alternatives.

 

[flacaltenn]

The combination of wind, solar, and geo-thermal could easily power our nation. Both geo-thermal and solar thermal is 24/7 power, pv solar is during the time of most use, and wind fills gaps for all.

You can go the the MIT study on geo-thermal for a good look at the potential there. Columbia University of Missouri has an engineer that is working on a pv solar that would be 95% efficient. There are two companies, just in Portland, Oregon, alone, working on EV batteries that will reduce the cost by a factor of three, with an increase by the same amount in power stored.

You are in the position of someone looking at a big screen TV ten years ago and doing the Neener-neener act because no one will pay $10,000 for one. Tech, especially solid state, moves fast now. I see no problem in having the ability to supply nearly 100% of our power within the coming decade from non-nuclear alternatives.

Oh man... SOS... and so boldly stated.. Misconceptions.

1) Geo-thermal is a dirty mining operation that is SEVERELY geographically restricted. (for bulk electric generation). It is NOT clean. And it is NOT renewable as the wells actually rot and peter out over short periods of time.

2) Solar "thermal" is 24/7 dependent on weather and geolocation and replaces your hot water heater. NOT an alternative source of electrical grid power. Check your govt mandated label to see how much of your electric or gas bill this represents.

3) "and wind fills the gaps for all". So ENTIRELY sophomoric as to not deserve a response.
YOU -- are not gonna be hired to analyze MY energy needs.

4) there were ZERO technical details in that MIT 95% efficiency claim. The only way that can happen is by scavenging HEAT energy in the panels which will NEVER get you to 95% of incident flux energy. You FALL for these crumbs because of the desparation of your cause.

5)"""" I see no problem in having the ability to supply nearly 100% of our power within the coming decade from non-nuclear alternatives"""

You got NOTHING in your list that will do that. Or don't you see that? Or is it still to be discovered?

And for your TV analogy... Solar panel design has peaked in it's tech curve. The largest sold types haven't changed for a decade. And we've been HEAVILY subsidizing it for about as long. DOE TOLD you to increase efficiency -- you should go mine ARSENIC and change to Gallium Arsenide from Silicon. Got any financial or enviro issues with that?

 

[peach174]

Until we can find a source that is just as cheep as coal, natural gas and oil, we still need to use them.
Technology has not found something yet, but is still being explored.
Coal cost 4 cents per KWH and solar and other alternatives costs 22 cents and up for KWH.
The new EPA rules are shutting down coal plants because they can't afford to stay open.
You electric bills are going to go up by 33%.

 

[GHook93]

Like oil we have enough "rare" earth elements in America to cover ours and most of the world's needs, but like oil the envirnazis won't let us remove it from the ground!

 

[flacaltenn]

Actually -- to be thorough OldRocks -- there IS a version of solar thermal that CAN supply the grid with electricity. And that is the huge sophisticated "mirror farms" that you've seen in the Israeli desert and a few other places. But THAT type of solar thermal is subject to the same disclaimers as Solar PV panels.

I don't want to be sloppy in my criticism..

 

[flacaltenn]

Just to follow-up on GHook's comment about WHY we don't have domestic extraction of Rare Earths.

It IS largely because the eco-left made it more difficult AND that China lowered the world pricing structure to discourage competition BEFORE they restricted exports. And WE (the US) fell for both ploys..

US reserves of rare earth elements assessed for first time - physics-math - 19 November 2010 - New Scientist

Now, the US Geological Survey has looked at all known national reserves of the elements as part of a larger assessment of the threat posed to defence by limited rare earth supplies.

It found that the domestic pipeline is "rather thin". The US boasts the third largest reserves in the world after China and the Commonwealth of Independent States, made up of nations that were formerly part of the Soviet Union. But the only rare earths mine the US has ever operated, at Mountain Pass, California, is currently inactive. Mining may restart there within two years, but any other mines will be far behind.

AND THE REASON that the Mountain Pass, Ca mine was closed (from Wikipedia)

The mine closed in 2002, in response to both environmental restrictions and lower prices for REEs. The mine has been mostly inactive since 2002, though processing of previously mined ore continues at the site.

So now the eco-left (OldRocks) is concerned? It's a self-created problem MAN!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually -- to be thorough OldRocks -- there IS a version of solar thermal that CAN supply the grid with electricity. And that is the huge sophisticated "mirror farms" that you've seen in the Israeli desert and a few other places. But THAT type of solar thermal is subject to the same disclaimers as Solar PV panels.

I don't want to be sloppy in my criticism..

The major problem with those plants is it requires square miles to produce megawatts of power. Environmentalist will protest every time someone trie to build one.