Obama wants to keep Lieberman!

[rayboyusmc]

Gunny, is it your period, or is Obama's win pissing you off that much?

Tuff crap. We put up with Bush for eight years, now you get Obama for another eight. Get used to it.

If Obama fucks up that bad, I'll let you know.

I didn't start criticizing Bush until after 9-11 and he started using the terror card to push his NeoCon agenda.

Today, the right is already jumping all over him and he isn't even president yet.

Bad winners and bad losers.

 

[jillian]

I mention it a lot .. but hatred has nothing to do with it.

I take the position that many jewish people take on hardliner Israeli influence within our government .. and I think the questions are legitimate, serious, and worth discussing.

I try to carefully distinguish between the Israeli government, which I do have a problem with, and the jewish people, whom I do not have a problem with.

It would depend on what your problems are with the Israeli government and whether your criticisms reach, as well, to the multitude of Islamic countries that wouldn't even let me past their border. It would depend on whether you think, as I do, that certain things in Israel's past were bad policies and beneath it. But in analyzing the issue, one would have to be appropriately critical of kadusha's being fired into Israel from the territories and the aggressive terrorism of both Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[jillian]

Neither did the christians in the bush adminstration.

Let me get this straight: it is your contention that Paul Wolfowitz put a gun to Bush's head and forced him to invade iraq?

Or, is a more likely scenario, that all the christians in the Bush administration wanted to invade iraq no matter what, and simply populated their administration with like-minded fools?

The second option sounds more plausible to me.

Bingo. But don't try to confuse them with facts.

 

[DiveCon]

I disagree DC. I view Bush as the most partisan American leader in my lifetime. He may have compromised some with the democrats in congress, especially the last half of his administration, but I believe he will go down in history as the partisan president who was more interested in rewarding his friends and 'loyal Bushies' than employing competent people in the bureaucracy he was hired to manage. FEMA during Katrina is the most visible example.

Conservatives are PISSED at him because he mismanaged and used their party for personal gain as successfully as he mismanaged and used our government for personal gain.

-Joe

he compromised from the start
what the fuck are you talking about
shit, he had Kennedy WRITE the no child left behind legislation he practically gave in to most demands they asked for
he even had several Clinton admin holdovers stay in his administration(his biggest mistake was doing that)

 

[DiveCon]

And once again, your hatred makes you stupid.... Lieberman has never been a liberal. He's a conservative member of the religious right. Just because the religion is different, doesn't mean he's too far advanced over the christian right. He just has a bit of a more defined sense of social justice. But in every other area, whether the war on Iraq or school vouchers or any of the other religious right's agenda, he's not too far removed.

But keep spewing... you and the few others on this board who think every subject, and every comment has to mention jews... who are all of 1.5 percent of the population of this country.

Nutcase... but doesn't surprise me since you're a freak anyway.

are you fucking insane?????


Lieberman voted liberal 90% of the time, more so than even Lincoln Chafee(the most liberal of the GOP senators)

 

[jillian]

Might I add that I saw first hand jewish influence in the civil rights movement. African-Americans and this nation are indeed indebted to that influence.

I belong to a group of professional black men and every year we nominate and select a Person of the Year .. and every year I would nominate Barry Scheck for his extrodinary work with the Innocence Project. I was determined that he was going to win .. and two years ago, he did.

Admittedly, I'm real proud of myself for doing that, but I was even prouder of my organization and the brothers who acknowledged his work and importance.

My point is that "anti-semitism", "anti-jewish", and hate have nothing to do with the legitimate questions of Israeli hardliner influence present in both mainstream corporate political parties.

I have never gotten a sense of anti-semitism from you. But there is a sense in certain quarters that Israel should never defend itself and that, after attacking Israel repeatedly, the Palestinians are supposed to be entitled to a pass and be allowed a do-over. Israel is asked to tolerate things that absolutely no other country in history is asked to tolerate.

And one has to ask why that would be the case but for a deep seated resentment of the Jewish State.... something quite funny, incidentally, when one considers how many Islamic states exist in the region.

 

[CA95380]

editec .... do you have a link showing that Obama was on welfare? I would really like to read it, if there is. I must have missed that during and after his campaign.

editec: Consider that Obama is the first POTUS to have ever been on welfare.

 

[jillian]

uh, that is utter bullshit
Bush reached accross the aisle so many times

thats why so many conservatives were PISSED at him

When would those times be?

I seem to have missed them.

 

[Grismonda]

What happened to Obama's supposed ultra partisanship? I wonder what McRage would have done with his party's turncoats?

Obama Wants Lieberman To Remain In Democratic Caucus

"What does Barack Obama want?" Dodd rhetorically asked reporters Friday after speaking at a childhood nutrition forum at the state Capitol complex in Hartford. "He's talked about reconciliation, healing, bringing people together. I don't think he'd necessarily want to spend the first month of this president-elect period, this transition period, talking about a Senate seat, particularly if someone is willing to come forward and is willing to be a member of your family in the caucus in that sense."
Dodd: Obama Would Avoid Messy Fight on Lieberman - Capitol Watch

If I were in Obama's position, OR Reid's for that matter, I would very much want Leiberman to remain in the caucus, but with some stipulations attached. Leiberman would lose his cause position IF and when he decided to vote on the side of Republicans.

Basically, Democrats do not need Leiberman as much as they need his vote. Very pitful, but I understand the need to use the user.... I hope those in CONN. vote his arse out next vote around...

 

[Shogun]

I have never gotten a sense of anti-semitism from you. But there is a sense in certain quarters that Israel should never defend itself and that, after attacking Israel repeatedly, the Palestinians are supposed to be entitled to a pass and be allowed a do-over. Israel is asked to tolerate things that absolutely no other country in history is asked to tolerate.

And one has to ask why that would be the case but for a deep seated resentment of the Jewish State.... something quite funny, incidentally, when one considers how many Islamic states exist in the region.

The number of islamic states does not validate the nature in which israel was carved out of palestine.


Here, tell me how antisemetic Olmert is since you dind't choose to post on my thread commemorating Rabin's death yesterday.


Olmert: We must cede parts of Jerusalem

Ehud Olmert on Monday used a Jerusalem memorial ceremony for former prime minister Yitzhak Rabin to reiterate that Israel must be willing to cede parts of the capital.

"If we want to keep Israel Jewish and democratic, we need to give up parts of the homeland we have dreamed about for generations and [mentioned] in our prayers, even Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem, and to return to a 1967 Israel with certain amendments," he said, at the state ceremony on Mount Herzl, where Rabin is buried.

"The decision must be made now. The moment of truth has arrived. There is no escaping it, but [the opportunity] can be missed. If, God forbid, we dither, we will lose the support for the idea of two states. There is no need to expand on the alternative… Rabin will win," he continued.

"The moment of truth has arrived," he repeated. "We can push if off for many years in which blood will be spilled. But we must look at it honestly, proudly and responsibly. The bullets that killed Rabin could not stop the historic path that he led. Even after his death, Rabin will be victorious."

At the ceremony, President Shimon Peres emphasized that even today, there were those who were inciting and causing harm and he said that the state must "utilize the law to its fullest, without fear."

He said that like then, there was now a small minority of extremists that had "the audacity" to undermine the state's authority. "They hurt Palestinians, just because they are Palestinians, and challenge the law enforcement authorities, police and soldiers, who are protecting the country and also protecting them," he said. "The violent and dangerous minority must be condemned and isolated and we must silence their abusive and inciting words. Their damaging and destructive acts must not be tolerated as if they are a state within a state.

"Israel's honor, the power of democracy and rule of law, obligate this. The extremists have no future because they don't act justly. The majority of the electorate won't be frightened by this threatening minority. The people will defend their land, peace and democracy with all their might. They will overcome those struck by blindness, like just one candle can dissolve darkness."

"Yitzhak underwent a difficult metamorphosis," continued the president. "It didn't develop overnight and wasn't devoid of misgivings and deep concerns. As 'Mr. Security,' who for most of his years dealt with strengthening Israel military might and in ensuring its capability to win wars, and also as 'Mr. Peace,' Yitzhak suffered misgivings. But when Yitzhak made the moral and diplomatic decision, he never looked back. He reached forward with a determined and energetic heart."

"The bullets that were fired into Yitzhak's back didn't kill his way, because ideas and visions cannot be killed," stressed Peres. "But they were aimed at delaying, ruining and damaging a huge process, which had enormous regional and international support, for creating a new political and economic reality in this land and on its borders for the nations living here and the surrounding neighbors. The despicable murderer who showed contempt for Israel's democracy, and who assassinated its elected leader, hurt the nation's soul. It is not fitting for his voice to be heard.

"A killer is a killer and there is no need for his fictitious philosophy."

Most of the faces in the crowd had been there when Rabin was buried 13 years ago.

"It's the same autumn, it's the same place, it's the same people. Only time has passed," said his son Yuval, who warned that another political assassination was in the offing.

The gun is loaded, the bullets are in place, the weapon is cocked, the target is marked, "we're just waiting for the sound of the shot," he said, referring to a recent report by Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) head Yuval Diskin.

"If Yitzhak was with us today," said Peres, he would say: 'You have no right to despair. Stop your tears. Don't give way to emotion. Don't panic. Don't be afraid of extremists. Don't refrain from yearning.'"

Alluding to recently taped interviews with Rabin assassin Yigal Amir, Peres said: "He doesn't deserve to have his voice heard. Murder is murder and there is no need to philosophize about it."

Olmert also spoke later Tuesday at a Knesset memorial session for Rabin.

"I'm not trying to retroactively justify the Oslo accords that I opposed. But they defined a direction - a direction that was unavoidable," he told MKs. "After we learned to live with feelings of guilt and pain over the price of Oslo, a continuation of terror and disappointment over frozen processes, we returned to the heart of the conflict. But now, moments of reckoning are getting closer," he said.

"Every government must tell the truth and this truth will unfortunately make us divide many parts of the homeland, in Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem and the Golan Heights," he told the Knesset. "Whoever thinks that it's possible to duck out of a decision and also to continue to build ties with Arab and Muslim counties, like we are doing today, is living in a dream."

Olmert said that 13 years after Rabin's death, incitement and hate had still not subsided.

"Israeli citizens repeatedly hit with violent cruelty Palestinians who want to harvest olives, as they have done for hundreds of years, in places where their personal and family homes have stood," he said.

"Young Israelis, smitten by messianic dreams, which have no basis in the reality of our lives, hit our soldiers, break their bones and threaten their lives. There is no end to it."

Opposition leader Binyamin Netanyahu hailed Rabin at the Knesset session, saying that that he was a leader who had no ulterior motives.

Referring to plans that were withdrawn at the last minute two weeks ago to air the interviews with Amir on Channels 2 and 10, Netanyahu went on to say that said that children born in the last 13 years and who have lived in a world without Rabin "do not need to hear the thoughts and visions of a killer."


more.

Olmert: We must cede parts of Jerusalem | Israel | Jerusalem Post

 

[BlackAsCoal]

I have never gotten a sense of anti-semitism from you. But there is a sense in certain quarters that Israel should never defend itself and that, after attacking Israel repeatedly, the Palestinians are supposed to be entitled to a pass and be allowed a do-over. Israel is asked to tolerate things that absolutely no other country in history is asked to tolerate.

And one has to ask why that would be the case but for a deep seated resentment of the Jewish State.... something quite funny, incidentally, when one considers how many Islamic states exist in the region.

Thank you, I sincerly appreciate your recognition of where I'm coming from, and I recognize the sensitivity of the issue. I also recognize the depth of anti-jewish sentiment that comes from people who also harbor anti-black sentiments. Trust me, I don't want to sit in that boat. I come from a time when jews and blacks sat in the same boat .. the comradarie was natural.

In fact, many would be surprised to know that I use the jewish model all the time in admonition to African-American in what we must do to climb out of the boat we used to sit in with jews. How did they climb out?

They used their resources as a weapon and they coalesed and closed ranks. Do you know how many times a dollar turns over in the jewish community before it leaves .. about 150,000 times .. I'm exagerrating just a bit .. but it hardly turns over once in the black community. Good jobs aint the answer, owning business is the answer.

If you could only see the faces of some of the all black, nationalistic, and sometimes muslim audiences I've stood in front of as I started talking about let's be jews .. good thing stoning is illegal.

But regarding your valid concerns .. almost the entire world is against tha actions of Israel. You think that's because the entire world hates jews? It's not. I could post you a list of a hundred organiations of jews who are against the actions of Israel .. and I can assure you they don't hate jews either.

There are my good sister, legitimate questions that should be asked and those questions would be just as legitimate if blacks or asians or anyone else was in a similar situation.

They need be asked because our entire foreign policy and ourrelationship with the world is centered in our policy towards Israel. If Obama continues to play Isareli hardliner, it won't matter how smooth his words may be, his actions will signal the rest of the world that he's just another puppet, incapable of independent leadership.

 

[DiveCon]

When would those times be?

I seem to have missed them.

you miss a lot