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Haha theres an old testament too Shogun. But my statement is based on the popularity of the bible at that time and the amount of Christians regardless of denomination in the country at the time. In order to make it easily sold it was in part based on biblical principals But was not founded on the religion itself only common principals that would coincide with a government.
yah...it's not like the foundiing fathers were actually deists or anything.
The Founding Fathers HATED Christianity so much so that Jefferson himself wrote his own Bible.
Care to provide a source for that? Otherwise, WTF are you talking about?
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson[10][11] (who created the "Jefferson Bible"), and Benjamin Franklin[12]. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists.[13]
Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Founding Fathers HATED Christianity so much so that Jefferson himself wrote his own Bible.
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Oh brother. You know the Founding Fathers didn't hate Christianity. Why the spin?
We were established on Biblical Principals
Actually, it was established on philosophical principles that were established during the Enlightenment...which specifically rejected Church as government. You might want to look at the writings of John Locke which had far more influence than the Bible.
We worship Mammon.
The Baby Jesus just gets a lot of lip service, but everyone on the inside knows that's strictly propaganda to beguile the terminally stupid.
I have to say, I am just marveling - utterly speechless - at Obama's consummate skill as a diplomat.
Doesn't this yutz have any advisers to clue him in to which subjects he really doesn't need to address publicly?
I never once said that when they reference God they were speaking of the trinity. I said the basis of our government was in part founded on biblical principles. These principles may be shared by multiple religions and indeed many of them are. However when I describe them as biblical the mere idea is attacked. However, one idea may be shared by multiple groups therefore it would satisfy fact to be called an idea from any of the aformentioned groups.
yah...it's not like the foundiing fathers were actually deists or anything.
Like you would know a deist if he crawled up your pants leg and bit you on the ass.
The Founding Fathers HATED Christianity so much so that Jefferson himself wrote his own Bible.
Care to provide a source for that? Otherwise, WTF are you talking about?
Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson[10][11] (who created the "Jefferson Bible"), and Benjamin Franklin[12]. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists.[13]
Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The book known as the "Jefferson Bible" - which David has obviously heard mentioned but never had explained, much less shown to him - was a compilation Thomas Jefferson made of his favorite quotes and sections from the Bible.
Yeah, one expresses "hatred" for the Bible by compiling its quotes into a book.
I have to say, I am just marveling - utterly speechless - at Obama's consummate skill as a diplomat.
Doesn't this yutz have any advisers to clue him in to which subjects he really doesn't need to address publicly?
I have to say, I am just marveling - utterly speechless - at Obama's consummate skill as a diplomat.
Doesn't this yutz have any advisers to clue him in to which subjects he really doesn't need to address publicly?
They think they can get away with anything.
Adultery is grounds for a divorce which is the breaking of a legal contract.
Covet, the government isn't really concerned about that.
Love thy neighbor. You dont have to love them but you have to tolerate them to the extent you do not infringe on their constitutional rights.
but adultery isn't a criminal action as it would have to be if it correlated with stealing and murder under the ten commandments. Believe it or not, just because a society prohibits its people from killing and stealing from each other doesn't mean said culture is a product of christianity. Nether Jesus or Moses invented the concept of murder.
I LOVE this argument. you dogma junkie motherfuckers are wrong to think that America is a "christian nation". Hell, the very reason the new world was so enticing to many was because they were trying to escape the kind of pissed territory of european "[insert denomination here] cultural claim". And you people REALLY think that men who were the product of the fucking age of ENLIGHTENMENT were going to tack the jesus stamp onto this great experiment?
Shogun, my brotha from anotha motha. I said based on biblical principals. The same way movies are based on real events. They took what they liked and came up with the rest. The same way they used parts of many philosophical writings and teachings. It is not the only basis for the nation but it is one. Too deny that is rather foolish.
but adultery isn't a criminal action as it would have to be if it correlated with stealing and murder under the ten commandments. Believe it or not, just because a society prohibits its people from killing and stealing from each other doesn't mean said culture is a product of christianity. Nether Jesus or Moses invented the concept of murder.
I LOVE this argument. you dogma junkie motherfuckers are wrong to think that America is a "christian nation". Hell, the very reason the new world was so enticing to many was because they were trying to escape the kind of pissed territory of european "[insert denomination here] cultural claim". And you people REALLY think that men who were the product of the fucking age of ENLIGHTENMENT were going to tack the jesus stamp onto this great experiment?
Shogun, my brotha from anotha motha. I said based on biblical principals. The same way movies are based on real events. They took what they liked and came up with the rest. The same way they used parts of many philosophical writings and teachings. It is not the only basis for the nation but it is one. Too deny that is rather foolish.
???? As I remember the Bible promotes Monarchy, not Democracy. Did the Biblical God or Jesus gain power from some kind of election?
Actually, the United States of America is founded in direct opposition to biblical principles. Nowhere in the Bible is the power to govern drawn from the governed. Rather it is superimposed from above without consent of the governed, and without any rights accruing to them whatsoever.
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")
To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820
While he may have liked some of the teachings of Christ, he rejects, wholeheartedly the entire foundation that Christ was the "Son" of God given to Mary as a Virgin Birth. He rejects the laws of Christianity, he rejects the RELIGION of Christianity. Republicans like to wave the American flag around and throw it in our faces, but the very people who founded this country and our flag, would vomit at the idea of a Christian Nation.
i'll ask you the same thing i asked red dawn: how do they prove jefferson hated christianity as you claimed?
hint: they don't. rejection and hate aren't the same thing.
you really are a dope.
I never said Jefferson hated christianity.
He was a free-thinker, who believed in enlightenment and rationality, and he obviously believed in a higher power in the deist sense.
He was hostile to the clergy, to orthodoxy, and to the heirarchy and ignorance of organized religion.
And he didn't think this nation and its government owed an allegiance to Christianity.
I guess I have a problem understanding the right-wing uproar about this.
"Unbelievable!" says one conservative.
"We've always been a Judeo-Christian nation and this revisionist history is enough!"
Fortunately, this poster is incorrect. We are NOT a Judeo-Christian nation. The Founding Fathers HATED Christianity so much so that Jefferson himself wrote his own Bible.
The United States of America does not have an official religion. We are NOT a Christian nation. Why are the conservatives in an uproar about this?
"Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man." In correspondence, he sometimes expressed confidence that the whole country would be Unitarian, but he recognized the novelty of his own religious beliefs. On June 25, 1819, he wrote to Ezra Stiles, "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."
Monticello Report: Jefferson's Religious Beliefs[/url]
jefferson doesn't sound to me like he hated christianity, he just didn't accept all the dogma.
he seemed to think pretty highly of christ, though.
we'll add this to the list of things you know less than nothing about.
