Obama to Tax Rich for

but they arent
someone making $50k a year is not going to pay the same rate as someone making over $100k a year
if you are using "taxable income" as the basis

They will if they run an investment partnership.

I'll give you a real world example. A portfolio manager runs a $2.5 billion hedge fund. He charges a management fee of 2% and what is known as "carried interest" of 20%, meaning he gets 20% of the profits.

He bets that the housing market is going to collapse and sells swaps against an index of subprime mortgages. He is right and the housing market collapses. His partnership earns 100%, or $2.5 billion. By the terms of the partnership, the hedge fund manager earns 20% of that $2.5 billion, or $500 million.

Now, most reasonable people would view that $500 million as fee income. However, the IRS does not. If you or I were lucky enough to invest with this hedge fund manager, our 100% return would be taxed at a rate of 15%. No problem. Those are capital gains and taxed at the rate of capital gains. However, the hedge fund/private equity lobby was successful at convincing legislators to view that $500 million in carried interest as capital gains like you and I would pay, even though the hedge fund manager did not risk his own capital to earn that $500 million carried interest. (If the manager had his own money in the fund, that is taxed as capital gains, but that is not the issue.) Thus, the hedge fund manager pays a rate of 15% not 35%.

The hedge fund industry is roughly $1 trillion. It was $2 trillion a few years ago. On average, hedge funds return about 10% per year. Thus, at its height, hedge funds generated $200 billion in returns. The loss differential to the Treasury was $40 billion.

I think most Americans would find this patently unfair. This is what Obama wants to change, and is included in the tax package that people are railing against as evidence of class warfare.

For the record, I know people who run these funds. These people worked 100 hours a week when they were making $2 million a year. They worked the same when they were making $20 million a year. They will work just as hard when their after-tax income falls from $20 million to $16 million.
so your making it on the difference of what the IRS classifies as earned income and capital gains
still, you are comparing apples(earned income) to oranges(capital gains)
 
so your making it on the difference of what the IRS classifies as earned income and capital gains
still, you are comparing apples(earned income) to oranges(capital gains)

But that's the point. Capital gains are generated when you risk capital. Fees are paid when you perform a service. If you make commission on a sale, that is taxed as earned income. But if you make a "commission" on managing other people's money in a partnership, that is taxed not as earned income but instead as capital gains. The service being performed is not a capital gain but it is being taxed as one. It should be taxed as fee income, which is what it is. All Obama is doing is reclassifying capital gains for services rendered to fee income, as it should be. I shouldn't pay capital gains tax if I earn income on your capital.
 
Well we heard the dollar amount change as to who is considered RICH during the election. The goal post will just keep moving down until people who make 27k a year will be rich. LOL

If you lie, God doesn't like it.

Please stop lying.
 
so your making it on the difference of what the IRS classifies as earned income and capital gains
still, you are comparing apples(earned income) to oranges(capital gains)

But that's the point. Capital gains are generated when you risk capital. Fees are paid when you perform a service. If you make commission on a sale, that is taxed as earned income. But if you make a "commission" on managing other people's money in a partnership, that is taxed not as earned income but instead as capital gains. The service being performed is not a capital gain but it is being taxed as one. It should be taxed as fee income, which is what it is. All Obama is doing is reclassifying capital gains for services rendered to fee income, as it should be. I shouldn't pay capital gains tax if I earn income on your capital.
all the tax code needs to be simplified
 
Well we heard the dollar amount change as to who is considered RICH during the election. The goal post will just keep moving down until people who make 27k a year will be rich. LOL

If you lie, God doesn't like it.

Please stop lying.
if you werent so sarcasm challenged, you would have seen the humor in what she said and ignored it
 
Yes, I've heard all about the 'effective' tax rates, could you give me an example of a 'big, evil corporation' whose 'effective' tax rate actually ended up being significantly lower than what the corporate tax rates are actually listed to be? And another thing that puzzles me is why liberals are not currently holding your politician's collective feet to the fire over all of these lovely tax deduction and credits that these evil corporations are getting? I mean, after all, who is in charge of the tax code right now? Why that would be the majority democratic/liberal congress. Why do they stand up and bitch about the 'rich' not paying their fair share of taxes, creating class envy by pretending to stand up to the big evil corporations, yet at the same time they do nothing about all of these deductions and credits that the lobbyists are paying them to keep in the tax code? You people that think the liberal politicians are any less in bed with the 'rich' in this country or the corporations than any conservative politican are total fools in my opinion.

a tad too politically skewed post for me to bother answering....but maybe someone else will take a stab at it....i'm sorry.

and i have never said corporation are all evil....i worked for 3 different corporations over my career, and one blood bank and one hospital.

Your party is attempting to create class envy in this country in their endeavor to socialize us and it's in play in every news broadcast you see. Just look thru these threads and it is evident by most that have a 'liberal' point of view. I often wonder why the people who are excoriating the corporations and the rich in this country never ever seem to look at what the politicians in DC are doing and question any of that? What's happening right now in DC is a complete crime to every citizen in this country. Do you really believe that they are for the 'average' guy? If so, naive doesn't even begin to describe it. When people start to realize that there is no one in DC standing up for the 'average' guy, then we might actually start to make some progress in this country. There's nothing political about my post. I believe that they (politicians) are all in the same boat, but I especially think that the liberal Democrats are the worse because they are lying to the uneducated public in their quest for more power and more reliance on the state by the average citizen by creating class envy to push a socialist agenda.

You are being screwed by corporate lobbyists, and all you can say is...

Thank you sir, may I have another?

You can do better than that.
 
a tad too politically skewed post for me to bother answering....but maybe someone else will take a stab at it....i'm sorry.

and i have never said corporation are all evil....i worked for 3 different corporations over my career, and one blood bank and one hospital.

Your party is attempting to create class envy in this country in their endeavor to socialize us and it's in play in every news broadcast you see. Just look thru these threads and it is evident by most that have a 'liberal' point of view. I often wonder why the people who are excoriating the corporations and the rich in this country never ever seem to look at what the politicians in DC are doing and question any of that? What's happening right now in DC is a complete crime to every citizen in this country. Do you really believe that they are for the 'average' guy? If so, naive doesn't even begin to describe it. When people start to realize that there is no one in DC standing up for the 'average' guy, then we might actually start to make some progress in this country. There's nothing political about my post. I believe that they (politicians) are all in the same boat, but I especially think that the liberal Democrats are the worse because they are lying to the uneducated public in their quest for more power and more reliance on the state by the average citizen by creating class envy to push a socialist agenda.

You are being screwed by corporate lobbyists, and all you can say is...

Thank you sir, may I have another?

You can do better than that.

Really? And who is working with the corporate lobbyists? If politicians couldn't be bought, there wouldn't be any corporate lobbyists. It's always about money, and you're the one being screwed if you believe your lefty politicians aren't in bed with the 'corporate lobbyists'. Get a clue.
 
Yes, I've heard all about the 'effective' tax rates, could you give me an example of a 'big, evil corporation' whose 'effective' tax rate actually ended up being significantly lower than what the corporate tax rates are actually listed to be?

Virtually every single publicly listed corporation traded in the United States pays a lower effective tax rate than the stated rate. That is because virtually every single corporation uses some sort of loophole or write-off available to it, whether that is deferring offshore income or using double-declining rates of depreciation instead of using GAAP to calculate taxes.

None of this is illegal. Far from it. And for the record, I generally prefer lower corporate tax rates because corporations are the drivers of wealth creation. However, it is disingenuous to say the taxes corporations in aggregate pay are high when what they actually pay is much lower than advertised. If we are going to have a debate about how high corporate tax rates should be, we have to have an intellectually honest argument, not one that distorts facts.

And I still have no takers on why a private equity and hedge fund manager who makes $500,000,000 a year should be taxed at a lower rate than a person who makes $50,000 a year.

Who leaves the 'loop holes' in the tax code? Simple question.
 
so your making it on the difference of what the IRS classifies as earned income and capital gains
still, you are comparing apples(earned income) to oranges(capital gains)

But that's the point. Capital gains are generated when you risk capital. Fees are paid when you perform a service. If you make commission on a sale, that is taxed as earned income. But if you make a "commission" on managing other people's money in a partnership, that is taxed not as earned income but instead as capital gains. The service being performed is not a capital gain but it is being taxed as one. It should be taxed as fee income, which is what it is. All Obama is doing is reclassifying capital gains for services rendered to fee income, as it should be.

I shouldn't pay capital gains tax if I earn income on your capital
.


This is key!

And I agree...it is a loophole that 'justly' should be closed and we all should agree on this one imo.

care
 
so your making it on the difference of what the IRS classifies as earned income and capital gains
still, you are comparing apples(earned income) to oranges(capital gains)

But that's the point. Capital gains are generated when you risk capital. Fees are paid when you perform a service. If you make commission on a sale, that is taxed as earned income. But if you make a "commission" on managing other people's money in a partnership, that is taxed not as earned income but instead as capital gains. The service being performed is not a capital gain but it is being taxed as one. It should be taxed as fee income, which is what it is. All Obama is doing is reclassifying capital gains for services rendered to fee income, as it should be. I shouldn't pay capital gains tax if I earn income on your capital.
all the tax code needs to be simplified

Probably easier than attempting to make all simpletons smart enough to understand the difference between what they think is happening as it regards taxation, and what is really happening, I suppose.
 
I honestly don't know if 250k taxable income for a couple is the spot that taxes need to return to the glorious 90's... I tend to think that it should be closer to the million dollar or even 2 million dollar coupled income level....?

i still see those making $250k as having bills to pay, they have a bigger mortgage, a more expensive car, more expensive clothes and stuff like that to deal with, due to their work positions at that kind of salary...plus they tend to be city folk at corporations making that kind of dough, which means their cost of living is much higher than most in America...

I mean, $250k could be right on the edge of making it for some and in glorious heaven for others in a rural area making that kind of dough...i'd rather see it at high enough of a level where there is not a question of 50% of the people making the amount are living on the edge....
 
Come on now, those people living on $250,000 a year cannot be expected to squeek by on a mere $150,000 a year can they?

Do you know what that would do to the yacht industry?
 
Come on now, those people living on $250,000 a year cannot be expected to squeek by on a mere $150,000 a year can they?

Do you know what that would do to the yacht industry?
not if they already own that million dollar home and Beemer, with 3 kids on the edge of college, living in new york city as the administrative asst of a ceo, and fireman....

i'm telling ya, there really are places in the usa, where that income wouldn't go farther than a middle family income of $50k.

50k here would make matt and me ''wealthy'' at this point with us owning our home...

try that in nyc with $1000 a sq foot highrise with $650 a month condo fees on top of the mortgage and city parking fees, auto insurance and city taxes, and property taxes of 15k on that small 1000 sq foot condo...

granted, most rural places in the usa, that kind of salary gets you that yacht...but NOT in our cities on the east coast, or california coast either....and i would bet, that most people making 200k lives in a city...

cost of living needs to somehow relate, no?

care
 
Come on now, those people living on $250,000 a year cannot be expected to squeek by on a mere $150,000 a year can they?

Do you know what that would do to the yacht industry?
did you forget the luxury tax and what they did
you seem to forget your recent histroy
 
A senior administration official says Obama's budget calls for financing the overhaul by trimming Medicare spending and limiting tax deductions for upper-income earners.

so why would he cut health care for some? when he promised health care to all :confused::confused::confused::confused:

There is A LOT of WASTE in Medicare, huge medicare fraud from hospitals, clinics and doctors scamming the system....I would hope this is the approach they would take....

no?

Why is it Libs seem to alway cry about fraud...except when it's being perpetrated by the Welfare recipients? Then it's all okey dokey to get rid of regulations and watch the theft begin...

BTW if you stop letting doctors get their money back by way of deductions. Doctors are just going to retire or stop working the long hours they put in now....the good doctors,the folks that specialize in things like heart surgery for example..
 
so why would he cut health care for some? when he promised health care to all :confused::confused::confused::confused:

There is A LOT of WASTE in Medicare, huge medicare fraud from hospitals, clinics and doctors scamming the system....I would hope this is the approach they would take....

no?

Why is it Libs seem to alway cry about fraud...except when it's being perpetrated by the Welfare recipients? Then it's all okey dokey to get rid of regulations and watch the theft begin...

BTW if you stop letting doctors get their money back by way of deductions. Doctors are just going to retire or stop working the long hours they put in now....the good doctors,the folks that specialize in things like heart surgery for example..

i dunno?:confused:

why is it that right wingers always change the subject, instead of responding to the post they quote or the topic of the thread?

:eusa_whistle:
 
a tad too politically skewed post for me to bother answering....but maybe someone else will take a stab at it....i'm sorry.

and i have never said corporation are all evil....i worked for 3 different corporations over my career, and one blood bank and one hospital.

Your party is attempting to create class envy in this country in their endeavor to socialize us and it's in play in every news broadcast you see. Just look thru these threads and it is evident by most that have a 'liberal' point of view. I often wonder why the people who are excoriating the corporations and the rich in this country never ever seem to look at what the politicians in DC are doing and question any of that? What's happening right now in DC is a complete crime to every citizen in this country. Do you really believe that they are for the 'average' guy? If so, naive doesn't even begin to describe it. When people start to realize that there is no one in DC standing up for the 'average' guy, then we might actually start to make some progress in this country. There's nothing political about my post. I believe that they (politicians) are all in the same boat, but I especially think that the liberal Democrats are the worse because they are lying to the uneducated public in their quest for more power and more reliance on the state by the average citizen by creating class envy to push a socialist agenda.

You are being screwed by corporate lobbyists, and all you can say is...

Thank you sir, may I have another?

You can do better than that.

thank you may I have another? sounds like you and slick willie.
 
There is A LOT of WASTE in Medicare, huge medicare fraud from hospitals, clinics and doctors scamming the system....I would hope this is the approach they would take....

no?

Why is it Libs seem to alway cry about fraud...except when it's being perpetrated by the Welfare recipients? Then it's all okey dokey to get rid of regulations and watch the theft begin...

BTW if you stop letting doctors get their money back by way of deductions. Doctors are just going to retire or stop working the long hours they put in now....the good doctors,the folks that specialize in things like heart surgery for example..

i dunno?:confused:

why is it that right wingers always change the subject, instead of responding to the post they quote or the topic of the thread?

:eusa_whistle:

I did...I don't agree that Doctors scam the system just for kicks. Keep making it harder for them to make money and they will leave the profession.
 

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