Obama to announce $795 million in funding to expand broadband in poor, rural areas

[Immanuel]

Hey, I think this guy is a whack job , horrible President to, but if we go around attacking everything he does no matter what it is, it just weakens the argument when we have a legitimate beef.

I don't attack everything he does.

I actually like the guy. In fact, I like him 10 times (at least) more than I ended up liking Bush. I just don't agree with Congress.

And I sure don't think we should be putting the man on a pedestal.

Our economy is in the toilet. I do not blame President Obama for that. I simply want him to work towards turning things around and broadband for the poor over food for the poor... well, food wins out in my books.

Immie

Yeah, that would make sense except it's not about food v prodicidng rural internet service.

In fact it's not about providing internet TO THE POOR, at all.

It's about providing service to areas where the population is too low for it to make economic sense for the internet providers to run the WIRES.

Hereabout that means about 1 mile off US route 1.

Most of the truly POOR don't live in rural areas, they live in URBAN areas.

IOts a good idea, just like it was a good idea to run electricity everywhere, to run phone lines everywhere, and to give POSTAL service everywhere.

The internet is way beyond the stage where it's a toy.

It's a utility, now, no less than the telephone or electricity.

And, even in these trying times, insuring that the "rural" areas (which includes one hell of a lot of suburbs, BTW) is just good policy.

THIS is actually a very good example of STIMILUS spending, acutally.

It puts people to work expanding it, it give the Internet providers more customers who will PAY for that service, PLUS it give people (rich AND poor) who live in blacked out broadband areas, access to the most AMAZING connumications system mankind has yet to invent.

I cannot believe that some of you are trying to make something so good into a partisan issue.

You people truly need a sense of perspective.

I appreciate your point of view. You make good points although, I do not know what you meant by this, "prodicidng" unknown word to me.

Your points are well taken and appreciated.

However, I am not making this a partisan issue. I am concerned about the unemployed and I blame both parties for that problem.

You have helped to change my point of view although I am still not sure that we should not be focusing on those who are struggling to put food on the tables and to keep roofs over their heads.

Thanks for your point of view. It has helped me in some ways to see things a little differently.

Immie

 

[DiamondDave]

It's simply impossible for everyone to "earn their's" and fortunately, we as a society have formed social safety nets because of that truth. Even more fortunately people who share your extreme views are a tiny minority.

As stated.. you will never fix poverty.. or fix some people being with less than others... but that does indeed fall into the realm of the freedom to succeed that is hand in hand with the freedom to fail... to have or not to have

I agree you will never fix poverty and that there will always be winners and losers in life. But I'm glad we live in a society that provides a net to help if you do fail, or are unlucky, or unhealthy and doesn't just say "fuck 'em."

And I support those who voluntarily give and help others... what I am against is a system of government growing larger and larger and thinks it has the job of doing this, and people who think they are OWED something because they are on hard time or they have failed or they are 'unhealthy' or they are simply fucking lazy

 

[ConHog]

It's simply impossible for everyone to "earn their's" and fortunately, we as a society have formed social safety nets because of that truth. Even more fortunately people who share your extreme views are a tiny minority.

As stated.. you will never fix poverty.. or fix some people being with less than others... but that does indeed fall into the realm of the freedom to succeed that is hand in hand with the freedom to fail... to have or not to have

I agree you will never fix poverty and that there will always be winners and losers in life. But I'm glad we live in a society that provides a net to help if you do fail, or are unlucky, or unhealthy and doesn't just say "fuck 'em."

No shit, I'm conservative as hell, but that doesn't have to mean no compassion. And like it or not, a child who does not have high speed internet access at home isn't going to have the same chances of success as one who does. Not in today's school environment. Now it's up to a parent to provide that for them if they wish, but if the option isn't even there what can a parent do?

 

[Care4all]

Seriously? Even DSL is better than that and thats been around since Clinton days! And wherever there is a telephone pole Verizon is stringing its own fiber optic cable

You can get even wireless at a multiple of that speed today, do they have cell service there?

our phone lines are too antiquated...NO DSL, NO CABLE TV, no cable BROADBAND...

NO cell phone service at my home either.....

while for decades, we all have been paying extra fees to the cable and phone companies for them to use to add service to rural areas...? Why haven't they just done it.....

I call once a month the phone company here to complain and they have told me I will never get it....!!!! jerks!

And you have the choice to live there or not to.... you want service.. move... you can live with out it for the other benefits you have for living there... stay.... but this 'want' is not owed to anyone by the federal government

Let me tell you something dear Dave....YOU got YOUR broadband internet service available BECAUSE the GVT helped PAY FOR IT......what makes you so special?

In addition to this, this economy sucks wind....we paid CASH for our home with our nest egg in 2006, if we can sell our house, WHICH WE CAN'T, Unless we are willing to LOSE 35% on what we paid for it at the peak of the real estate bubble....Now you, may be able to take a tens of thousands of a dollar HIT on your home when you go to sell it, but I can assure you, that my husband and I can NOT afford to do that....

So moving is OUT OF THE QUESTION.

and in addition to this, my husband IS WORKING and there is no way in heck, that he would even contemplate moving and leaving this job, without having another one in hand, in this economy.

Now I have said from the beginning, that this may NOT be the right time to do this....that this is debatable....but I am leaning towards it being a "good thing" to spend money on and WILL BRING BACK a return on investment.....just my small business alone could give both federal and state gvts more taxes, just from me and my small business.....let alone the small businesses that actually have store fronts.

In addition to this, we ALL PAY FEES, every month to our phone companies for them to add service to rural areas....I paid those fees for 20 years, while I had super fast broadband and phone service and cable.....and NOW for the first time in my life, I live less than 1 mile from us1, and my town has ZIP...no cable tv, no cable broadband and no phone dsl available.....where the heck did all those fees I paid to the phone company go the previous 20 years?

I would rather see the private utilities pay for this....with the money they have been collecting from ALL OF US, ALL THESE DECADES....but here it is 2010 and my town STILL HAS NO broadband as a utility....and that's BS.

Care

 

[Immanuel]

So, you're not so much mad about this spending as you are mad that the government is cutting off your welfare.... Odd that...........

Sorry to hear about your problems finding a job to.

Not really, I'm mad that there is no work out there at all. I'm mad that I seem to be spinning my wheels and going no where. I'm mad that I am "over qualified" for most jobs out there, "under qualified" for most of whats left and that there are thousands other people just like me looking for jobs that don't exists.

It's frustrating as all hell.

Immie

Immie.....do not take this as sarcasm...take it as sound advice from someone who did exacty what I am going to say...

Do some research on the internet. There are many different service needs out there where you can start your own company with little to no overhead. There are the needs for "middle man" type companies to handle the administrative work of an internet purchase.

For example, I needed new filters for my attic fan. I went to the filter maker site and they were too expensive.

I searched the brand filter on the internet and found a distributer for 1/3 the price. I ordered it and received them 4 days later, They were shipped from the manufaturer to a warehouse and processed by a third party "internet" company. That internet company is strictly the processor of the order. No overhead and likely some man or woman working from home.

I started a business consulting firm several years back. My initial overhead was nothing as I worked out of my house. I had to market, but used the internet and Google to research potential clients. I made OK money at the beginning, nothing great.

2 years ago was a great year for us...now sturggling again, but that is becuase I have employees and not prepared to let them go so my wallet is slimmer, but I am ready to make an impact when the economy turns.

Like Rahm Emanuel said....always take advantage of a cirsis. You are in a cirsis. Maybe your life can change for the better?

I have been considering doing something like this, although, I have never seen myself as an entrepreneur. I don't have the spirit required. I'm conservative in the risk category. I am not willing to risk what I have.

I have not given up the idea yet, but I simply do not see myself as that kind of a risk taker.

And I can tell you that I am the world's worst salesman. Honesty is not a trait of the salesman. Well, let's put it this way. I don't have the instinct for sales.

Immie

 

[Article 15]

As stated.. you will never fix poverty.. or fix some people being with less than others... but that does indeed fall into the realm of the freedom to succeed that is hand in hand with the freedom to fail... to have or not to have

I agree you will never fix poverty and that there will always be winners and losers in life. But I'm glad we live in a society that provides a net to help if you do fail, or are unlucky, or unhealthy and doesn't just say "fuck 'em."

And I support those who voluntarily give and help others... what I am against is a system of government growing larger and larger and thinks it has the job of doing this, and people who think they are OWED something because they are on hard time or they have failed or they are 'unhealthy' or they are simply fucking lazy

We the people created that system. A sizable majority of the nation supports the programs you rail against. If you don't believe me, run for Congress on what you would consider your platform. See how far that gets you. Your beef with the people who feel like they are "owed" something is a beef with a minority. They are the yin to your "I gots mine" yang. Both sides of that coin are extreme and both sides are wrong.

 

[AllieBaba]

I was just talking with my sister last night after a hellish day at work. I have 5 tanf cases that were all extremely active yesterday and the day before...per usual, the LAST DAY OF THE MONTH.

They do things like call my boss on the 30th to freak out about not getting their food stamps, or medical, or cash, and they can never reach me, and they've left DOZENS of messages but I NEVER answer their calls and they need their *cash* *medical* *foodstamps* RIGHT NOW because someone's sick and they have to leave in 15 minutes to go to a step uncle's funeral in New Fucking Orleans...

Then as an afterthought, they'll call and leave a garbled message on my machine. The first I've heard from them (and this is truly a collective...they ALL do it) since I PENDED them for whatever the hell it is I told them I needed to determine eligibility.

I believe in helping people. I believe in being considerate even to those who may not be considerate themselves. I have a lot of patience for frustration and confusion that goes with grinding poverty.

Anyway, I was talking to my sister, who is an attorney. She has worked her entire life with the same caseload as I do...as a prosecutor, as a defense attorney, as a child support division attorney.

And what we decided is that there are people out there who want absolutely nothing more than to take a welfare check every month of their lives. That is their life's goal and crowning achievement. They don't care about bettering themselves, it never crosses their mind! Neither does work. Why, they want to be stay-at home moms to their 15 children with 16 dads (remember, the ones they accuse of being the fathers but who really aren't..and end up paying child support for a while anyway until they get the DNA tests. No shit.). They are Good Moms, that's why they keep having babies and taking that check.

I have clients who are related, who have kids the same age with the same dads (different moms). I have kids with the same last names as kids in 2-3 other families, I have kids named after men who allegedly aren't their fathers...what the hell??

And these people...who the hell leaves a perfectly fine job to take the entire family across the nation and deposit them in a town WITH NO JOBS and no prospects?

There is a time when you just can't help people. And when they have to take the knocks and hopefully learn from them. And there are people that no matter what you do for them, they will always be sad sacks and losers and in crisis. Because that's who they are. Why reward them? Let them schlep along, and if they can't care for their kids, adopt the kids out and end the cycle.

 

[Article 15]

As stated.. you will never fix poverty.. or fix some people being with less than others... but that does indeed fall into the realm of the freedom to succeed that is hand in hand with the freedom to fail... to have or not to have

I agree you will never fix poverty and that there will always be winners and losers in life. But I'm glad we live in a society that provides a net to help if you do fail, or are unlucky, or unhealthy and doesn't just say "fuck 'em."

No shit, I'm conservative as hell, but that doesn't have to mean no compassion. And like it or not, a child who does not have high speed internet access at home isn't going to have the same chances of success as one who does. Not in today's school environment. Now it's up to a parent to provide that for them if they wish, but if the option isn't even there what can a parent do?

Bingo.

People don't start life equally so it's unrealistic to believe that they all had the same "equal" chance to succeed in life.

 

[AllieBaba]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

 

[ConHog]

our phone lines are too antiquated...NO DSL, NO CABLE TV, no cable BROADBAND...

NO cell phone service at my home either.....

while for decades, we all have been paying extra fees to the cable and phone companies for them to use to add service to rural areas...? Why haven't they just done it.....

I call once a month the phone company here to complain and they have told me I will never get it....!!!! jerks!

And you have the choice to live there or not to.... you want service.. move... you can live with out it for the other benefits you have for living there... stay.... but this 'want' is not owed to anyone by the federal government

Let me tell you something dear Dave....YOU got YOUR broadband internet service available BECAUSE the GVT helped PAY FOR IT......what makes you so special?

In addition to this, this economy sucks wind....we paid CASH for our home with our nest egg in 2006, if we can sell our house, WHICH WE CAN'T, Unless we are willing to LOSE 35% on what we paid for it at the peak of the real estate bubble....Now you, may be able to take a tens of thousands of a dollar HIT on your home when you go to sell it, but I can assure you, that my husband and I can NOT afford to do that....

So moving is OUT OF THE QUESTION.

and in addition to this, my husband IS WORKING and there is no way in heck, that he would even contemplate moving and leaving this job, without having another one in hand, in this economy.

Now I have said from the beginning, that this may NOT be the right time to do this....that this is debatable....but I am leaning towards it being a "good thing" to spend money on and WILL BRING BACK a return on investment.....just my small business alone could give both federal and state gvts more taxes, just from me and my small business.....let alone the small businesses that actually have store fronts.

In addition to this, we ALL PAY FEES, every month to our phone companies for them to add service to rural areas....I paid those fees for 20 years, while I had super fast broadband and phone service and cable.....and NOW for the first time in my life, I live less than 1 mile from us1, and my town has ZIP...no cable tv, no cable broadband and no phone dsl available.....where the heck did all those fees I paid to the phone company go the previous 20 years?

I would rather see the private utilities pay for this....with the money they have been collecting from ALL OF US, ALL THESE DECADES....but here it is 2010 and my town STILL HAS NO broadband as a utility....and that's BS.

Care

Care, if I could, I'd like to address something you keep mentioning. That private ISPs have been collecting fees for years to build infrastructure in rural areas. That's simply not true for a couple reasons. 1. MOST ISPs in rural areas are small local businesses, they don't have the revenue stream to be able to afford the kind of infrastructure you are talking about and the prices are prohibitive in terms of return on investment.

Like I said , last year we finally got broadband out to our house , but its still a loser for our ISP, they built a tower with a wireless repeater on it that cost $20K to service about 10 customers. No private business is going to make a habit of doing that.

 

[Gatekeeper]

our phone lines are too antiquated...NO DSL, NO CABLE TV, no cable BROADBAND...

NO cell phone service at my home either.....

while for decades, we all have been paying extra fees to the cable and phone companies for them to use to add service to rural areas...? Why haven't they just done it.....

I call once a month the phone company here to complain and they have told me I will never get it....!!!! jerks!

And you have the choice to live there or not to.... you want service.. move... you can live with out it for the other benefits you have for living there... stay.... but this 'want' is not owed to anyone by the federal government

Let me tell you something dear Dave....YOU got YOUR broadband internet service available BECAUSE the GVT helped PAY FOR IT......what makes you so special?

In addition to this, this economy sucks wind....we paid CASH for our home with our nest egg in 2006, if we can sell our house, WHICH WE CAN'T, Unless we are willing to LOSE 35% on what we paid for it at the peak of the real estate bubble....Now you, may be able to take a tens of thousands of a dollar HIT on your home when you go to sell it, but I can assure you, that my husband and I can NOT afford to do that....

So moving is OUT OF THE QUESTION.

and in addition to this, my husband IS WORKING and there is no way in heck, that he would even contemplate moving and leaving this job, without having another one in hand, in this economy.

Now I have said from the beginning, that this may NOT be the right time to do this....that this is debatable....but I am leaning towards it being a "good thing" to spend money on and WILL BRING BACK a return on investment.....just my small business alone could give both federal and state gvts more taxes, just from me and my small business.....let alone the small businesses that actually have store fronts.

In addition to this, we ALL PAY FEES, every month to our phone companies for them to add service to rural areas....I paid those fees for 20 years, while I had super fast broadband and phone service and cable.....and NOW for the first time in my life, I live less than 1 mile from us1, and my town has ZIP...no cable tv, no cable broadband and no phone dsl available.....where the heck did all those fees I paid to the phone company go the previous 20 years?

I would rather see the private utilities pay for this....with the money they have been collecting from ALL OF US, ALL THESE DECADES....but here it is 2010 and my town STILL HAS NO broadband as a utility....and that's BS.

Care

In addition to this, this economy sucks wind....we paid CASH for our home with our nest egg in 2006, if we can sell our house, WHICH WE CAN'T, Unless we are willing to LOSE 35% on what we paid for it at the peak of the real estate bubble

Well, , I was doing okay until you brought that up. It makes the internet thing seem a tad small now since we are in a similar situation with the exception that we didn't pay cash for this home, the' real estate bust' left us hanging as well, as just about every homeowner in America. Doesn't pay us to do anything but stay here, and I doubt if this house will ever reach what it was "Worth" before it's my time to check off the planet. I am not complaining, I am thankful for what we have believe me, just lucky we didn't lose more.

I agree with the 'private utilities' paying for it also or at least discounting the services for those in need, like the elderly, disabled etc. But, they won't budge,money is money, profit is profit. Now the utilities are tacking solar panels on every pole they can find to get free solar power while WE pay for them do 'upgrade', eventually they will get a substantial amount of 'green power' for FREE and still continue to charge us till we choke.

At any rate, I still think providing internet to those in the 'boonies' is a good thing as long as it doesn't get abused, I know, famous last words. Unfortunately anytime there is any type of government 'give-a-way' for the good, the vultures and con artists already are lined up ready to feed off the system.

Okay, I am rambling............next?

 

[ConHog]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

Absolutely people can over come obstacles, they can't overcome brick walls though.


As to your other point about some people screwing they system over. For sure they do, absolutely , some people are just scum and will actually work harder at screwing the system than just working would be; but others just genuinely need the help. I'm perfectly willing to tolerate being ripped off by scum if at the same time people who sincerely need help are getting the help they need. Of course I want the scum chased down and shot, but they'll just be replaced by more scum, so we can't just shut down the whole system cuz some rip it off.

 

[Article 15]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

Tell that to the kid growing up poor, in crime ridden areas, and to parents who don't care about their social and academic development.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I wonder how many winter coats for children in those poor rural areas 800 million will buy?
Do you think those children prefer winter coats or faster internet?

I thought conservative volunteerism took care of problems like that.

At least that's what wingnuts keep telling me. Charity has fixed poverty and disadvantage in this country. That's why we can eliminate the social safety net,

and use the money we save to build some more schools and hospitals in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You can eliminate the mandated 'social safety net' because you have the freedom to succeed that goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail

Nothing will ever 'fix' poverty... something entitlement junkie supporting leftists just cannot understand

Then I guess alot of Christians are getting duped by their churches who do work to help the poor. Suckers, eh?

 

[AllieBaba]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

Tell that to the kid growing up poor, in crime ridden ares, and to parents who don't care about their social and academic development.

You tell the kids their parents are fucking losers when you take them away, and advise them to forget they ever knew them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

By the 'logic' of that bit of 'wisdom', we should do more to strengthen America,

by putting up even more obstacles.

oh wait...that is the conservative agenda...

 

[Article 15]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

Tell that to the kid growing up poor, in crime ridden ares, and to parents who don't care about their social and academic development.

You tell the kids their parents are fucking losers when you take them away, and advise them to forget they ever knew them.

And what proportion of those kids are "taken away" and told that?

 

[ConHog]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

Tell that to the kid growing up poor, in crime ridden ares, and to parents who don't care about their social and academic development.

Yep, look no further than my kid's friend who is now living with us.

I will immodestly tell you that we are the only reason he even graduated high school. Neither of his parents did, he had 8 siblings none by the same 2 parents as himself. His dad is in prison for drugs, his mom is off doing whatever.

This kid had NOTHING, and no knowledge that there was anything better before he met my son when they were FR in high school. He honestly didn't know any better. He figured on dropping out of school and selling drugs like his dad when he turned 16. His mom neither knew nor cared where he was, let alone if he had done his homework or studied. He came out to the farm one day as a 14 y/o and had never even done a hard day's work. No one in his family was there to teach him how to drive, or to counsel him on not further ruining his life by getting a girl pregnant as a teenager. No family member was there to congratulate him when he actually passed all his classes for the first time in a school year, they just didn't care. They couldn't even be bothered to come to his graduation; but you know what? At the end of four years of being around us he changed , he knew that was wrong, he knows that an education is his best chance of beating the life his parents would have relegated him to.

Now what about the kids who aren't fortunate enough to meet someone who will take the time and yes spend the money to help them like we've helped this kid? Just screw them? It's their own fault for being born where they were?

 

[ConHog]

I thought conservative volunteerism took care of problems like that.

At least that's what wingnuts keep telling me. Charity has fixed poverty and disadvantage in this country. That's why we can eliminate the social safety net,

and use the money we save to build some more schools and hospitals in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You can eliminate the mandated 'social safety net' because you have the freedom to succeed that goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail

Nothing will ever 'fix' poverty... something entitlement junkie supporting leftists just cannot understand

Then I guess alot of Christians are getting duped by their churches who do work to help the poor. Suckers, eh?

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

By the 'logic' of that bit of 'wisdom', we should do more to strengthen America,

by putting up even more obstacles.

oh wait...that is the conservative agenda...

hey Carbiner, this is an adult conversation, why don't you take your stupid attempts to attack Christians and conservatives back to the playground

 

[Article 15]

People can overcome obstacles. It makes them stronger. If obstacles are going to prevent you from achieving, then you weren't much to begin with.

Tell that to the kid growing up poor, in crime ridden ares, and to parents who don't care about their social and academic development.

Yep, look no further than my kid's friend who is now living with us.

I will immodestly tell you that we are the only reason he even graduated high school. Neither of his parents did, he had 8 siblings none by the same 2 parents as himself. His dad is in prison for drugs, his mom is off doing whatever.

This kid had NOTHING, and no knowledge that there was anything better before he met my son when they were FR in high school. He honestly didn't know any better. He figured on dropping out of school and selling drugs like his dad when he turned 16. His mom neither knew nor cared where he was, let alone if he had done his homework or studied. He came out to the farm one day as a 14 y/o and had never even done a hard day's work. No one in his family was there to teach him how to drive, or to counsel him on not further ruining his life by getting a girl pregnant as a teenager. No family member was there to congratulate him when he actually passed all his classes for the first time in a school year, they just didn't care. They couldn't even be bothered to come to his graduation; but you know what? At the end of four years of being around us he changed , he knew that was wrong, he knows that an education is his best chance of beating the life his parents would have relegated him to.

Now what about the kids who aren't fortunate enough to meet someone who will take the time and yes spend the money to help them like we've helped this kid? Just screw them? It's their own fault for being born where they were?

That's a rare, lucky kid.