Obama Signs Children's Health Care Bill

[Dr Grump]

April 1st. the price of a pack of cigarettes goes up 62 cents..

Good, should have been more...

 

[KittenKoder]

"Recklessly"?

Don't you mean..they can't afford it? I don't think it's "reckless" not to pay for something you can't afford.

My children were "recklessly" un-insured when I was working as a reporter because it would cost me $800 a month to insure us. Yeah, that's fucking reckless of me. I don't feel like paying $800 a month when chances are, I'll pay much less than that. It's fucking extortion.

There are people who chose not to get insurance, because they want to spend their money on other things beside insurance! You will be surprised how many households that do this!

Hmm ... a natural asshole I see. I really can't add more, Alie already said the rest of what I would have.

 

[KittenKoder]

April 1st. the price of a pack of cigarettes goes up 62 cents..

Good, should have been more...

Once it exceeds a certain amount though we will be able to get medical insurance to cover all medication to stop ... so yeah, but most of us smokers won't be the ones who wind up paying for that ...

 

[GHook93]

Yeah, like food and rent and utilities.

Damn their reckless asses!

Are all reckless? NO! Are some? Absolutely.


I'm a little confused Allie. You are stating your opposition to this law, yet you are stating that many people simply can't afford health insurance.

 

[Dr Grump]

Once it exceeds a certain amount though we will be able to get medical insurance to cover all medication to stop ... so yeah, but most of us smokers won't be the ones who wind up paying for that ...

I was being slightly facecious. People tend to forget smokers die earlier than other folk, so they are not as much as a burden on the health system as some might think...

 

[KittenKoder]

Yeah, like food and rent and utilities.

Damn their reckless asses!

Are all reckless? NO! Are some? Absolutely.


I'm a little confused Allie. You are stating your opposition to this law, yet you are stating that many people simply can't afford health insurance.

The difference, since you missed it, is that it should be affordable but not free. However, there are none who are reckless, there are some however who take advantage of whatever system they can, but here's the part you missed, those who do also do not work or try to get anywhere in life.

 

[KittenKoder]

Once it exceeds a certain amount though we will be able to get medical insurance to cover all medication to stop ... so yeah, but most of us smokers won't be the ones who wind up paying for that ...

I was being slightly facecious. People tend to forget smokers die earlier than other folk, so they are not as much as a burden on the health system as some might think...

There's the problem, that is a myth and one that has been so ingrained into our culture that people keep ignoring the findings to the contrary. In reality we are more of a burden to the system because we live longer but with more non-fatal health issues. The number one death is still heart attacks brought on by stress ... something us smokers have a nice little drug to fight, nicotine. Heart attacks by other means are like number 5 if I remember. Stress related deaths are the highest in all causes as well, again us smokers are not as prone to stress attacks or injuries as non-smokers (though we are not immune just less likely to be seriously harmed by it). This is why insurance premiums are actually higher for those in stress filled jobs, almost as high as those with high mortality rates.

 

[Dr Grump]

There's the problem, that is a myth and one that has been so ingrained into our culture that people keep ignoring the findings to the contrary. In reality we are more of a burden to the system because we live longer but with more non-fatal health issues. The number one death is still heart attacks brought on by stress ... something us smokers have a nice little drug to fight, nicotine. Heart attacks by other means are like number 5 if I remember. Stress related deaths are the highest in all causes as well, again us smokers are not as prone to stress attacks or injuries as non-smokers (though we are not immune just less likely to be seriously harmed by it). This is why insurance premiums are actually higher for those in stress filled jobs, almost as high as those with high mortality rates.

I'd like you to back up that claim. A lot of heart attacks are brought on by hardened arties (due to smoking), and people being too fat. Of all the cancers, lung cancer is pretty swift in killing folk. Not too many survivors on that one.

Stress is a factor in heart attacks, but obesity and hardened arteries are by far the most common reason (oh, and genetic pre disposition too).

 

[KittenKoder]

There's the problem, that is a myth and one that has been so ingrained into our culture that people keep ignoring the findings to the contrary. In reality we are more of a burden to the system because we live longer but with more non-fatal health issues. The number one death is still heart attacks brought on by stress ... something us smokers have a nice little drug to fight, nicotine. Heart attacks by other means are like number 5 if I remember. Stress related deaths are the highest in all causes as well, again us smokers are not as prone to stress attacks or injuries as non-smokers (though we are not immune just less likely to be seriously harmed by it). This is why insurance premiums are actually higher for those in stress filled jobs, almost as high as those with high mortality rates.

I'd like you to back up that claim. A lot of heart attacks are brought on by hardened arties (due to smoking), and people being too fat. Of all the cancers, lung cancer is pretty swift in killing folk. Not too many survivors on that one.

Stress is a factor in heart attacks, but obesity and hardened arteries are by far the most common reason (oh, and genetic pre disposition too).

First the easy one: Lung cancer is cause by many different airborne chemicals and radioactive particles of which the largest supply to date is the automobile putting out about a ton per day each car (average running time). Smoking one year increases your chances of this by a small fraction compared to being near a running car for only one hour. Again the myth is ingrained without any evidence. A fact often ignored here is that the number of smokers has drastically decreased and yet the occurance of lung cancer is steadily rising with no end in sight.

Heart attacks are not caused by only one thing, this is a little more complex but I will see if the tiny brain of yours can retain some of this or at least comprehend it. The hardened arteries increase the risk of heart attack by quite a bit, yes, however what causes this is within much of our foods (naturally even). The one ingredient for a heart attack often overlooked is stress, something which nicotine counters with no inebriation, unlike the other drugs with the same effects and risks. There are also a lot of other causes, however, the medical stats show that smokers generally die less often from heart attacks, not that they have fewer. Which costs more to care for than if we did die. Sure, we have a higher risk of having them but because of the nicotine we are also more likely to survive them. However because of the lower stress levels our heart attacks are far less severe and many times we have micro attacks which we don't even notice.

 

[WillowTree]

April 1st. the price of a pack of cigarettes goes up 62 cents..

Good, should have been more...

Once it exceeds a certain amount though we will be able to get medical insurance to cover all medication to stop ... so yeah, but most of us smokers won't be the ones who wind up paying for that ...

Hey I quit almost ten years ago. so that's one tax I don't have to worry about.

 

[Red Dawn]

Exactly.
My parents didn't have fucking health insurance.

Until I was WELL into adulthood the only insurance I had was the periods of time when I was down and out and getting medical because I had young kids in the home.

When my oldest was born, we actually paid for everything in cash, over time. Imagine that!

Neither of my boys has medical, they work and one has a young child.

Medical coverage is not a RIGHT. It's a privilege, or something you earn yourself. It's not something YOU HAVE COMING TO YOU because YOU'RE A FUCKING LOSER. People can and will support themselves when it comes down to it.

Don't believe me? Ask my nemesis, KK...who has been down and out and lived the life. We have many differences and I think she's a nut...but at least she recognizes that people are accountable for themselves.

It's something you have to learn the hard way, and too many liberal pansy asses who insist that the state should provide a cushy living for every single man, woman and child on the planet..and make sure they're teeth are straight....have never had to learn ANYTHING the hard way, have never been down and out themselves, and have had limited association with the people they think we should provide a free ride to.

Tale away message: A lot of republicans are black-hearted, cruel, cold m*ther f*ckers.

 

[WillowTree]

Once it exceeds a certain amount though we will be able to get medical insurance to cover all medication to stop ... so yeah, but most of us smokers won't be the ones who wind up paying for that ...

I was being slightly facecious. People tend to forget smokers die earlier than other folk, so they are not as much as a burden on the health system as some might think...

There's the problem, that is a myth and one that has been so ingrained into our culture that people keep ignoring the findings to the contrary. In reality we are more of a burden to the system because we live longer but with more non-fatal health issues. The number one death is still heart attacks brought on by stress ... something us smokers have a nice little drug to fight, nicotine. Heart attacks by other means are like number 5 if I remember. Stress related deaths are the highest in all causes as well, again us smokers are not as prone to stress attacks or injuries as non-smokers (though we are not immune just less likely to be seriously harmed by it). This is why insurance premiums are actually higher for those in stress filled jobs, almost as high as those with high mortality rates.

You ought to sit down some day and take a look at the damage cigarettes cause to yer coronary system. It's worse than what it does to yer lungs.

 

[xsited1]

We need to have a national holiday honoring cigarette smokers for all that they do. Thank God for smokers!

 

[KittenKoder]

Good, should have been more...

Once it exceeds a certain amount though we will be able to get medical insurance to cover all medication to stop ... so yeah, but most of us smokers won't be the ones who wind up paying for that ...

Hey I quit almost ten years ago. so that's one tax I don't have to worry about.

Lucky you ... I like paying my taxes, then I don't have to worry about the times I don't vote. However, there is only one reason I want to quit smoking ... I hate the "need cravings". Although one great thing, because of knowing what addiction is like I have never even been tempted to try anything 'harder'.

 

[Dr Grump]

First the easy one: Lung cancer is cause by many different airborne chemicals and radioactive particles of which the largest supply to date is the automobile putting out about a ton per day each car (average running time). Smoking one year increases your chances of this by a small fraction compared to being near a running car for only one hour. Again the myth is ingrained without any evidence. A fact often ignored here is that the number of smokers has drastically decreased and yet the occurance of lung cancer is steadily rising with no end in sight.

Heart attacks are not caused by only one thing, this is a little more complex but I will see if the tiny brain of yours can retain some of this or at least comprehend it. The hardened arteries increase the risk of heart attack by quite a bit, yes, however what causes this is within much of our foods (naturally even). The one ingredient for a heart attack often overlooked is stress, something which nicotine counters with no inebriation, unlike the other drugs with the same effects and risks. There are also a lot of other causes, however, the medical stats show that smokers generally die less often from heart attacks, not that they have fewer. Which costs more to care for than if we did die. Sure, we have a higher risk of having them but because of the nicotine we are also more likely to survive them. However because of the lower stress levels our heart attacks are far less severe and many times we have micro attacks which we don't even notice.

Where do you get your info? I get mine from my sister in law who is a doctor who specialises in such things as internal organs. Did you know why you smokers get hardened arteries? Every cigarette you have slows down your blood flow, which doesn't start to increase until about an hour after your last ciggie. If you smoke every hour, the only time your blood flow starts to normalise, is when you go to sleep.

I know stress doesn't help the heart, but it is not a major factor in heart attacks, heart disease is, which is caused by smoking and bad foods.

Your lung cancer analogy is way out of whack and I would just love you to prove that stat with evidence. Approximately 18-20 percent of adults in the western world smoke from all walks of life. The only occupation where smoking is at about 2% are doctors (there's a reason for that). Interestingly, nurses are in the 18-20 percent bracket.

As an aside, my sister-in-law told me two months ago that there are studies out of Europe and the US that state 10 percent of smokers are not, and never will be, susceptible to lung cancer. That aside, the VAST majority of lung cancer sufferers are either smokers or ex-smokers.

As for my tiny brain, if you want to get into insults, go to the flame zone. I'll meet you there and you can flame 'til your little heart's content..

 

[WillowTree]

Exactly.
My parents didn't have fucking health insurance.

Until I was WELL into adulthood the only insurance I had was the periods of time when I was down and out and getting medical because I had young kids in the home.

When my oldest was born, we actually paid for everything in cash, over time. Imagine that!

Neither of my boys has medical, they work and one has a young child.

Medical coverage is not a RIGHT. It's a privilege, or something you earn yourself. It's not something YOU HAVE COMING TO YOU because YOU'RE A FUCKING LOSER. People can and will support themselves when it comes down to it.

Don't believe me? Ask my nemesis, KK...who has been down and out and lived the life. We have many differences and I think she's a nut...but at least she recognizes that people are accountable for themselves.

It's something you have to learn the hard way, and too many liberal pansy asses who insist that the state should provide a cushy living for every single man, woman and child on the planet..and make sure they're teeth are straight....have never had to learn ANYTHING the hard way, have never been down and out themselves, and have had limited association with the people they think we should provide a free ride to.

Tale away message: A lot of republicans are black-hearted, cruel, cold m*ther f*ckers.

Only if you are an idiot would that be you're take away message. If the shoe fits......

 

[WillowTree]

First the easy one: Lung cancer is cause by many different airborne chemicals and radioactive particles of which the largest supply to date is the automobile putting out about a ton per day each car (average running time). Smoking one year increases your chances of this by a small fraction compared to being near a running car for only one hour. Again the myth is ingrained without any evidence. A fact often ignored here is that the number of smokers has drastically decreased and yet the occurance of lung cancer is steadily rising with no end in sight.

Heart attacks are not caused by only one thing, this is a little more complex but I will see if the tiny brain of yours can retain some of this or at least comprehend it. The hardened arteries increase the risk of heart attack by quite a bit, yes, however what causes this is within much of our foods (naturally even). The one ingredient for a heart attack often overlooked is stress, something which nicotine counters with no inebriation, unlike the other drugs with the same effects and risks. There are also a lot of other causes, however, the medical stats show that smokers generally die less often from heart attacks, not that they have fewer. Which costs more to care for than if we did die. Sure, we have a higher risk of having them but because of the nicotine we are also more likely to survive them. However because of the lower stress levels our heart attacks are far less severe and many times we have micro attacks which we don't even notice.

Where do you get your info? I get mine from my sister in law who is a doctor who specialises in such things as internal organs. Did you know why you smokers get hardened arteries? Every cigarette you have slows down your blood flow, which doesn't start to increase until about an hour after your last ciggie. If you smoke every hour, the only time your blood flow starts to normalise, is when you go to sleep.

I know stress doesn't help the heart, but it is not a major factor in heart attacks, heart disease is, which is caused by smoking and bad foods.

Your lung cancer analogy is way out of whack and I would just love you to prove that stat with evidence. Approximately 18-20 percent of adults in the western world smoke from all walks of life. The only occupation where smoking is at about 2% are doctors (there's a reason for that). Interestingly, nurses are in the 18-20 percent bracket.

As an aside, my sister-in-law told me two months ago that there are studies out of Europe and the US that state 10 percent of smokers are not, and never will be, susceptible to lung cancer. That aside, the VAST majority of lung cancer sufferers are either smokers or ex-smokers.

As for my tiny brain, if you want to get into insults, go to the flame zone. I'll meet you there and you can flame 'til your little heart's content..

Very very good..

 

[rayboyusmc]

Universal healthcare is not socialized medicine, but it's a nice right wing sound bite.

Be careful when you're checking the boxes on those medical apps..if you make a boo boo and identify yourself as Christian, chances are you're no longer eligible.

Please show some proof for this.

 

[KittenKoder]

First the easy one: Lung cancer is cause by many different airborne chemicals and radioactive particles of which the largest supply to date is the automobile putting out about a ton per day each car (average running time). Smoking one year increases your chances of this by a small fraction compared to being near a running car for only one hour. Again the myth is ingrained without any evidence. A fact often ignored here is that the number of smokers has drastically decreased and yet the occurance of lung cancer is steadily rising with no end in sight.

Heart attacks are not caused by only one thing, this is a little more complex but I will see if the tiny brain of yours can retain some of this or at least comprehend it. The hardened arteries increase the risk of heart attack by quite a bit, yes, however what causes this is within much of our foods (naturally even). The one ingredient for a heart attack often overlooked is stress, something which nicotine counters with no inebriation, unlike the other drugs with the same effects and risks. There are also a lot of other causes, however, the medical stats show that smokers generally die less often from heart attacks, not that they have fewer. Which costs more to care for than if we did die. Sure, we have a higher risk of having them but because of the nicotine we are also more likely to survive them. However because of the lower stress levels our heart attacks are far less severe and many times we have micro attacks which we don't even notice.

Where do you get your info? I get mine from my sister in law who is a doctor who specialises in such things as internal organs. Did you know why you smokers get hardened arteries? Every cigarette you have slows down your blood flow, which doesn't start to increase until about an hour after your last ciggie. If you smoke every hour, the only time your blood flow starts to normalise, is when you go to sleep.

I know stress doesn't help the heart, but it is not a major factor in heart attacks, heart disease is, which is caused by smoking and bad foods.

Your lung cancer analogy is way out of whack and I would just love you to prove that stat with evidence. Approximately 18-20 percent of adults in the western world smoke from all walks of life. The only occupation where smoking is at about 2% are doctors (there's a reason for that). Interestingly, nurses are in the 18-20 percent bracket.

As an aside, my sister-in-law told me two months ago that there are studies out of Europe and the US that state 10 percent of smokers are not, and never will be, susceptible to lung cancer. That aside, the VAST majority of lung cancer sufferers are either smokers or ex-smokers.

As for my tiny brain, if you want to get into insults, go to the flame zone. I'll meet you there and you can flame 'til your little heart's content..

Okay ... if that was so true ... let's say the 20 percent is accurate (in Seattle the last medical stat showed less than 15% still smoking and of that 50% or more were starting programs to stop), but we'll say 20% for fun. If so many are getting lung cancer are smokers then only a few hundred cases per year would be reported and it wouldn't be the problem everyone claims it to be. Kinda like that anti-smoking campaign that says "5 million die each year ..." and yet, our population seems to somehow magically regain that plus a few hundred million more each year, factoring in all the other ways people die (quite a LOT if you think world wide) then somehow we are more than quadrupling the population growth. But this is all estimations based on information that I just remember. In reality, the number of lung cancer patients is steeply rising while the number of smokers is dropping (it was 20% here in Seattle about 5 years ago). Also according to the hospitals here (yes we asked) almost all those with lung cancer are non smokers, and only a few work in factories (oddly we still have a few). So ... um ... yeah ...

 

[Sky Dancer]

We need to have a national holiday honoring cigarette smokers for all that they do. Thank God for smokers!

Good point. We ought to have a holiday for all the gamblers who purchase lottery tickets to fund the schools!