Obama shifts, says he may back offshore drilling

[jreeves]

JR, you said the Fed should lend the oil companies the money to build refineries...why should we?

To eliminate any and all excuses by oil companies...

 

[Ravi]

To eliminate any and all excuses by oil companies...

sigh

If the oil companies NEEDED to build refineries to maintain profit, they would.

There is no shortage of gasoline.

 

[jreeves]

sigh

If the oil companies NEEDED to build refineries to maintain profit, they would.

There is no shortage of gasoline.

There is a refining capacity problem though, no new refineries in the last 30 years, you think the US population can keep growing at its current pace and keep up with demand?

 

[Charles_Main]

sigh

If the oil companies NEEDED to build refineries to maintain profit, they would.

Very foolish Ravi. Environmentalists have blocked every effort at building new refineries for 30 years. Oil Companies have tried to build new ones, and have been sued and forced to stop.

Nobody is saying there is a shortage of Gas, what there is, is very tight supply. I am a trucker, and I can tell you that there is a very big problem with refineries. They are only able to refine one product at a time. That is why diesel costs more than gas even though Diesel is less refined than Gas. The refineries are forced to refine the thing in highest demand first, and Gas is in Highest demand. That is why Diesel costs almost 5 dollars a gallon even tough it is far cheaper to make than Gas.

Gas is traded just like oil, on a speculative Futures market. That is why when there is the treat of a hurricane in the gulf, the price spikes. That is why if we simply announce we are going to allow the building of New Refineries and the Drilling of Oil, prices will respond by going down. The only reason there is not a shortage of Gas is precisely because the futures markets have seen the tight supply and driven the price up. It is pretty clear by your comment you have little understanding how speculative futures markets work.

No matter how badly you may want it, the blame for the current crisis can not be placed Solely at the feet of Oil companies. No matter how many times you deny it, building new Refineries and Drilling for more of our own oil WILL help.

 

[CharlestonChad]

No matter how badly you may want it, the blame for the current crisis can not be placed Solely at the feet of Oil companies. No matter how many times you deny it, building new Refineries and Drilling for more of our own oil WILL help.

It would cause a faint decrease in price in 7-10 years.

 

[jreeves]

It would cause a faint decrease in price in 7-10 years.

Refineries?

 

[Charles_Main]

It would cause a faint decrease in price in 7-10 years.

Refineries would cause far more than a slight decrease in price, and would do it much sooner than 7 to 10 years. You must be talking about drilling.

Lowing prices is not the only reason to do these things.

Drilling for our own oil is more about not using there oil, and not sending hundreds of billions of Dollars over seas, than it is lowering prices.

We currently use 20 million barrel of oil a day. 12 Million of those come from over seas, the other 8 we drill for ourselves. IMO the more we can get from our own sources, and not from over seas, the better. It is a win win situation. Lower the trade deficit, stop sending Billions over seas, and slightly lower prices.

Then if we could just build some more Nuke plants, and other alternative sources for our electricity, we would be getting somewhere.

 

[Chris]

If we cut our consumption of oil, we won't need any more refineries.

 

[jreeves]

If we cut our consumption of oil, we won't need any more refineries.

If pigs could fly they would...
We need to develop alternative energy sources that are cheaper than oil before we can begin the process of phasing oil out of the economy.

 

[jreeves]

Go figure.

"My attitude is that we can find some sort of compromise," Obama told the Times shortly after talking with voters at Gibbs High School. "If it is part of an overarching package, then I am not going to be rigid in preventing an energy package that goes forward that is really thoughtful and is going to really solve the problem."

Although short of an endorsement, Obama expressed a new willingness to consider the U.S. coast for oil exploration.

This morning at the U.S. Capitol, five Democrats and five Republicans announced a comprehensive energy plan designed to break the gridlock over energy policy that has nearly brought the Senate to a standstill in recent weeks.

It calls for allowing offshore drilling as close as 50 miles from Florida's west coast, which is currently protected by a 2006 law banning drilling within about 230 miles of Tampa Bay and 125 miles from the Panhandle.

Drilling would also be allowed 50 miles off the coasts of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia if their state legislatures allowed it. Florida would have no say over the matter because Senate advocates think the eastern Gulf of Mexico offers the best chance to get more oil and natural gas to market quickly.

Years-old surveys suggest recoverable reserves there, particularly of natural gas, and drilling operations in the eastern gulf could easily tap into existing pipelines and other infrastructure off the coasts of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana, the senators said.

"It's only a logical extension of what's happening in the gulf" to the west, said U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, the lead Republican sponsor of the plan.

U.S. Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota, his Democratic counterpart, said, "We know that because of soundings that have already been made, there is tremendous potential in the eastern gulf."

Considering new energy plan, Obama softens stance on drilling - St. Petersburg Times
But on Saturday morning, Obama said this "wasn't really a new position.""I made a general point about the fact that we need to provide the American people some relief and that there has been constructive conversations between Republicans and Democrats in the Senate on this issue," he said during a press conference in Cape Canaveral.

"What I will not do, and this has always been my position, is to support a plan that suggests this drilling is the answer to our energy problems," Obama added.

Obama says offshore drilling stance nothing new - CNN.com
“And when I am President, I will keep the moratorium in place and prevent oil companies from drilling off Florida’s coasts,” Obama says. “That’s how we can protect our coasts and still make the investments that will reduce our dependence on foreign oil and bring down gas prices for good.”

Obama: no offshore drilling

Sigh...seems the same to me...good god

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Found this. We currently collect about 8 billion from off Shore operations, A YEAR.

Leasing of Onshore Federal Oil & Gas Resources

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I found this from Colorado also.

It is a pdf so can't high light and quote from it.

If you page down you will find the Lease agreement which states 12.5 percent of any production on the land.

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media....Par.11866.File.dat/Aug. 2008 Sale Notice.pdf

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And this.

But the energy companies are filling our government’s coffers. In 2006, the top 27 U.S. energy producing companies paid 21% of the total corporate income taxes ($81.5 billion) collected by the federal government. These 27 companies were responsible for 44% of the total U.S. crude oil and natural gas production, and 81% of domestic refining capacity.(API) In fiscal year 2006, $10.48 billion was also collected in the form of bonus bids, rents and royalties from oil and gas companies operating on Federal lands. (Interior Budget in Brief 2009)

Oil Leasing 101 | cooler heads

And this.

U.S. federal oil and gas royalties - Congresspedia

read the first little bit.

 

[jreeves]

I found this from Colorado also.

It is a pdf so can't high light and quote from it.

If you page down you will find the Lease agreement which states 12.5 percent of any production on the land.

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media....Par.11866.File.dat/Aug. 2008 Sale Notice.pdf

Lease terms: A lease issued as a result of this sale has a primary term of 10 years. It will continue beyond its primary term as long as oil or gas in paying quantities is produced on or for the benefit of the lease. Rental at $1.50 per acre for the first 5 years ($2 per acre after that) is due on or before the lease anniversary date each year until production begins. Once a lease becomes producing, royalty of 12.5 percent must be paid. You will find other lease terms on our standard lease form (Form 3100-11, July 2006). (Note: You may copy the lease form, but if you copy an obsolete lease form, your offer will be rejected. The copy you make must be legible.)

Is that what you wanted to quote RGS?

 

[Ravi]

Very foolish Ravi. Environmentalists have blocked every effort at building new refineries for 30 years. Oil Companies have tried to build new ones, and have been sued and forced to stop.

Nobody is saying there is a shortage of Gas, what there is, is very tight supply. I am a trucker, and I can tell you that there is a very big problem with refineries. They are only able to refine one product at a time. That is why diesel costs more than gas even though Diesel is less refined than Gas. The refineries are forced to refine the thing in highest demand first, and Gas is in Highest demand. That is why Diesel costs almost 5 dollars a gallon even tough it is far cheaper to make than Gas.

Gas is traded just like oil, on a speculative Futures market. That is why when there is the treat of a hurricane in the gulf, the price spikes. That is why if we simply announce we are going to allow the building of New Refineries and the Drilling of Oil, prices will respond by going down. The only reason there is not a shortage of Gas is precisely because the futures markets have seen the tight supply and driven the price up. It is pretty clear by your comment you have little understanding how speculative futures markets work.

No matter how badly you may want it, the blame for the current crisis can not be placed Solely at the feet of Oil companies. No matter how many times you deny it, building new Refineries and Drilling for more of our own oil WILL help.

I don't know if your talking point is true or not. Several posters have posted articles about areas of the country where refineries are welcome but the business doesn't want to build them.

I do know that many oil refineries have expanded and that close to a hundred have been closed instead of retrofitted or because of industry mergers.

Truckers waste millions of gallons a gas during their down time. You want your diesel prices to come down, then organize and figure out a way to stay comfortable during down time.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Refineries?

New drilling. If today we opened up florida's coast, then we could knock off a few quarters on the gallon in 7-10 years. No matter what, the oil will be traded on the world market. It's a fallacy to believe that opening up our coasts will solve the gas price crisis.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't know if your talking point is true or not. Several posters have posted articles about areas of the country where refineries are welcome but the business doesn't want to build them.

I do know that many oil refineries have expanded and that close to a hundred have been closed instead of retrofitted or because of industry mergers.

Truckers waste millions of gallons a gas during their down time. You want your diesel prices to come down, then organize and figure out a way to stay comfortable during down time.

New South Dakota Oil Refinery One Step Closer to Reality : Gas 2.0

Check it out. You propose a refinery be built and watch the opposition throw up roadblocks

 

[AllieBaba]

If pigs could fly they would...
We need to develop alternative energy sources that are cheaper than oil before we can begin the process of phasing oil out of the economy.

Yup.

It's idiotic to continue to parrot "We need to develop alternative energy sources" while denying us access to the energy sources we DO have.

I just love it when environmental acolytes, who have lived in cities all their lives, completely distanced from the environment, think they can "save the planet" by forcing others to a vague source of alternate energy.

Well, not nuclear...that's too scary. And apparently not air or sun...inefficient. Can't use batteries, too much toxic waste. Biofuel had a good run, but in the long run it's not feasible and the effect it would have on the environment isn't looking to be any better...and possibly worse...than regular oil.

So we're just not supposed to use any energy at all, I guess. Back to hitting rocks together for a spark and hunting our food.

Well, maybe not hunting...that is too barbaric, and requires the use of weapons.....