Obama set's back Iran's nuclear program by years

[Sallow]

Putting aside the rhetoric...

It is no doubt a smart move to avoid a military action.
But...
It is no doubt reason for Iran to declare a war against us.

Will be interesting to see how "sane" that guy is..

And yes, I know his name, but cant spell it...so I went with "that guy"....

Iran has not started a war in decades..arguably centuries..

And the parameters I am using is initiating a conventional war.

No, they have not started a war....but as we are seeing, they sure know how to egg people on.

They learned from the best.

See: Iraq v. Iran.

 

[Sallow]

Did it go over your head?
Are you assuming that I disagree?
Did you not see the pos rep I sent you for that post?

Ahhh .. my bad .. it did go over my head.

Sorry, my apologies.

No problem. that would be the first thing we've agreed on.

A computer virus is like a regular virus. Once it's out, you can only treat the infected.



I also did a ahort study on the use of war dogs, b/c I wondered why they weren't used more often.

Turns out, if the trianers are killed, the dogs don't know who thier freinds are and won't actually accept food as a bribe to play nice, so they end up attacking anyone that comes along b/c they follow the last order given until dead.

Sorta off topic..but you can coax most dogs out of their training. Takes a great deal of time and patience..but it's possible.

 

[StevenC]

Why on earth are you detracting from who is really responsible. We all know none of this was possible without Al Gore. He invented the Internet. He deserves all the credit.

Do you get all your facts from paraphrasing pundits?

snopes.com: Al Gore Invented the Internet

Here's Al

"I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

So who was it that took "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." to mean "I invented the internet"? Why does the myth persist?

Why? Maybe this will help.
create - Synonyms from Roget's A-Z Thesaurus and Roget's II

And as for snopes you may want to check on them.
Snopes exposed

 

[Jarhead]

Then being a realist surely you understand blowback for illegal activity.

Surely then you'd have no problems with US industries being attacked by the same or similar software .. you'd have no problems with foreign spying on our government .. you'd have no problems with a foreign government attacking the vunerable US elections systems and "electing" whoever they want.

The door to realsim does not swing one way.

I would have a great problem with all you say.
But it is something I would expect.
And we should prepare for it.
It is reality...and as I said, I am a realist.

If you recall, people decided it may be best to "befriend" Hitler at the beginning.
How did that pan out?

What is real, is real.

The reality is that there is nothing we can do to stop Iran from acquiring nukes .. and that's a good thing. All we can do is make things worse. We have NO .. as in ZERO moral grounds to keep anyone from acquiring nukes. NONE.

WE created this nuclear world, now we must live with it,

If we didnt create it, someone else would have.
And whereas I admire your passion for your dream of a "conflict free" world, I see things from a "what is, is" perspective.

We did not create Hitler.
We did not create the dictators of yore, present and those to come.
Total power and acquiision of territory is part of human nature. Most try to acquire it without compromising their morals and others try to acquire it regardless of what is right.
The existance of the latter is why our world will always have conflict.
Unfortunately, as technology increases, so does ones INability to forsee and plan for an attack...and thereforte pro-active measures must be taken.
Believe me....I hate war; But war has been a part of humans since the beginning.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Did it go over your head?
Are you assuming that I disagree?
Did you not see the pos rep I sent you for that post?

Ahhh .. my bad .. it did go over my head.

Sorry, my apologies.

No problem. that would be the first thing we've agreed on.

A computer virus is like a regular virus. Once it's out, you can only treat the infected.

I also did a ahort study on the use of war dogs, b/c I wondered why they weren't used more often.

Turns out, if the trianers are killed, the dogs don't know who thier freinds are and won't actually accept food as a bribe to play nice, so they end up attacking anyone that comes along b/c they follow the last order given until dead.

Not trying to make excuses for my stupid, but that's why it went over my head.

As someone who has trained dogs, including protection dogs for many years, there is a lot of validity to what you say. That has even been the experience of many police dogs.

Aggressive dogs require an alpha. When the alpha is no longer there, they become alpha or they go into a deep depression.

 

[MaggieMae]

The Yongbyon complex is at the heart of the North's plutonium weapons program. It consists of a five-megawatt reactor, whose construction began in 1980, a fuel fabrication facility and a plutonium reprocessing plant, where weapons-grade material is extracted from spent fuel rods. The site about 100 km (60 miles) north of Pyongyang also contains a 50-megawatt reactor whose construction was suspended under a 1994 nuclear deal with the United States.

Factbox: A look at North Korea's nuclear arms program | Reuters

Clinton was president in 1980? Construction was SUSPENDED in 1994. Who was president in 1994?

Oops.

Clinton was president in 1980? Construction was SUSPENDED in 1994

Carter was president in 1980
According toi clinton he had N. Korea under control but as soon as Bush became President word got out just how advance N korea had advance it's nuclear program while clinton was president. Meaning you're a fool

Carter was president in 1980 until the end of the year. Then we had eight years of Reagan. What did he do? Oops.

For one thing, the first START treaty was his proposal, ratified under George H.W. Bush.

START (for Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty) was a bilateral treaty between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on the Reduction and Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms. The treaty was signed on 31 July 1991 and entered into force on 5 December 1994 .[1] The treaty barred its signatories from deploying more than 6,000 nuclear warheads atop a total of 1,600 ICBMs, submarine-launched ballistic missiles, and bombers. START negotiated the largest and most complex arms control treaty in history, and its final implementation in late 2001 resulted in the removal of about 80 percent of all strategic nuclear weapons then in existence. Proposed by United States President Ronald Reagan, it was renamed START I after negotiations began on the second START treaty, which became START II.

START I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stop making this thing political. Nuclear arms treaties are in the best interests of ALL of us. Who gives a shit which party person gets the job done?

 

[MaggieMae]

Why on earth are you detracting from who is really responsible. We all know none of this was possible without Al Gore. He invented the Internet. He deserves all the credit.

Do you get all your facts from paraphrasing pundits?

snopes.com: Al Gore Invented the Internet

Here's Al

"I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

So who was it that took "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." to mean "I invented the internet"? Why does the myth persist?

Don't even bother with that nonsense. It's one of those trivial untruths that the fringers just love to still repeat.

 

[MaggieMae]

Why on earth are you detracting from who is really responsible. We all know none of this was possible without Al Gore. He invented the Internet. He deserves all the credit.

Do you get all your facts from paraphrasing pundits?

snopes.com: Al Gore Invented the Internet

Here's Al

"I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

So who was it that took "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." to mean "I invented the internet"? Why does the myth persist?

It doesn't. No one truly thought that AL Gore meant he invented the internet. It was a statement that was made by a politician that many of us played with for laughs.

No one truly believed that Obama thought there were 57 states either. But THAT line will live with him forever as well.

What is wrong with political humor?

When the humor is all that a person gleans from the political arena, and then they run around acting like they're experts on everything else.

 

[Sallow]

Why on earth are you detracting from who is really responsible. We all know none of this was possible without Al Gore. He invented the Internet. He deserves all the credit.

Do you get all your facts from paraphrasing pundits?

snopes.com: Al Gore Invented the Internet

Here's Al

"I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

So who was it that took "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." to mean "I invented the internet"? Why does the myth persist?

Don't even bother with that nonsense. It's one of those trivial untruths that the fringers just love to still repeat.

Well yeah..and the fact there were many in the government that did not want the internet to be set up for public use. Al Gore changed that mindset.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

I would have a great problem with all you say.
But it is something I would expect.
And we should prepare for it.
It is reality...and as I said, I am a realist.

If you recall, people decided it may be best to "befriend" Hitler at the beginning.
How did that pan out?

What is real, is real.

The reality is that there is nothing we can do to stop Iran from acquiring nukes .. and that's a good thing. All we can do is make things worse. We have NO .. as in ZERO moral grounds to keep anyone from acquiring nukes. NONE.

WE created this nuclear world, now we must live with it,

If we didnt create it, someone else would have.
And whereas I admire your passion for your dream of a "conflict free" world, I see things from a "what is, is" perspective.

We did not create Hitler.
We did not create the dictators of yore, present and those to come.
Total power and acquiision of territory is part of human nature. Most try to acquire it without compromising their morals and others try to acquire it regardless of what is right.
The existance of the latter is why our world will always have conflict.
Unfortunately, as technology increases, so does ones INability to forsee and plan for an attack...and thereforte pro-active measures must be taken.
Believe me....I hate war; But war has been a part of humans since the beginning.

I hate NEEDLESS war brother. Most wars are NEEDLESS.

Someone else may have created the nuclear world, but no one else did. In fact, no other country has ever used them .. we did twice .. and threaten to use them again.

The Chinese don't go around the world threatening small and tiny nations. They don't rely on military power to spread their agenda .. and guess who's winning? The Chinese.

America is infected with the disease of violence. Controlled by our fetish for things that go boom.

Our "pro-active" measure of releasing a virus that attacks industry is much like the testing we did on Japanese people.

What say you if/when that virus comes back to hit American industries?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

torture doesnt work.

You get unreliable intell from torture

Tell that to someone whos life was saved because of waterboarding.

 

[MaggieMae]

Hey I got an idea! NUKE IRAN. That will solve all the problems. Git in, nuke 'em and git out.

This way we won't have to put up with their bullshit nonsenese indimidation tactics. They are underestimating the power of AMERICA!

Sure. And what happens when the entire area becomes a cloud of nuclear dust, Saudi Arabia's oil wells and refineries are shut down, and the price of your fucking gas goes to $20.00 a gallon? That is, IF you even have a car (or yourself) left to pump the gas once nukes are lobbed at this country and/or that cloud reaches us.

 

[StevenC]

Do you get all your facts from paraphrasing pundits?

snopes.com: Al Gore Invented the Internet

Here's Al

"I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

So who was it that took "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." to mean "I invented the internet"? Why does the myth persist?

Don't even bother with that nonsense. It's one of those trivial untruths that the fringers just love to still repeat.

Well yeah..and the fact there were many in the government that did not want the internet to be set up for public use. Al Gore changed that mindset.

Any proof of this statement?
Cosidering when the internet was actually "created" Gore had nothing to do with it. He was just trying to make himself look better than his opponent.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Hey I got an idea! NUKE IRAN. That will solve all the problems. Git in, nuke 'em and git out.

This way we won't have to put up with their bullshit nonsenese indimidation tactics. They are underestimating the power of AMERICA!

Sure. And what happens when the entire area becomes a cloud of nuclear dust, Saudi Arabia's oil wells and refineries are shut down, and the price of your fucking gas goes to $20.00 a gallon? That is, IF you even have a car (or yourself) left to pump the gas once nukes are lobbed at this country and/or that cloud reaches us.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Ahhh .. my bad .. it did go over my head.

Sorry, my apologies.

No problem. that would be the first thing we've agreed on.

A computer virus is like a regular virus. Once it's out, you can only treat the infected.



I also did a ahort study on the use of war dogs, b/c I wondered why they weren't used more often.

Turns out, if the trianers are killed, the dogs don't know who thier freinds are and won't actually accept food as a bribe to play nice, so they end up attacking anyone that comes along b/c they follow the last order given until dead.

Sorta off topic..but you can coax most dogs out of their training. Takes a great deal of time and patience..but it's possible.

staying off topic

Sure you can.

If you can keep a trained war dog from killing while you net or noose it, you can get another trainer to obey it.

Dogs are used to humans, and they respond to kindness. The hard part is getting it to not kill you.

Dog trainers, archers, standard bearers, the leader were all prized targets.

 

[Jarhead]

The reality is that there is nothing we can do to stop Iran from acquiring nukes .. and that's a good thing. All we can do is make things worse. We have NO .. as in ZERO moral grounds to keep anyone from acquiring nukes. NONE.

WE created this nuclear world, now we must live with it,

If we didnt create it, someone else would have.
And whereas I admire your passion for your dream of a "conflict free" world, I see things from a "what is, is" perspective.

We did not create Hitler.
We did not create the dictators of yore, present and those to come.
Total power and acquiision of territory is part of human nature. Most try to acquire it without compromising their morals and others try to acquire it regardless of what is right.
The existance of the latter is why our world will always have conflict.
Unfortunately, as technology increases, so does ones INability to forsee and plan for an attack...and thereforte pro-active measures must be taken.
Believe me....I hate war; But war has been a part of humans since the beginning.

I hate NEEDLESS war brother. Most wars are NEEDLESS.

Someone else may have created the nuclear world, but no one else did. In fact, no other country has ever used them .. we did twice .. and threaten to use them again.

The Chinese don't go around the world threatening small and tiny nations. They don't rely on military power to spread their agenda .. and guess who's winning? The Chinese.

America is infected with the disease of violence. Controlled by our fetish for things that go boom.

Our "pro-active" measure of releasing a virus that attacks industry is much like the testing we did on Japanese people.

What say you if/when that virus comes back to hit American industries?

What say me?
Exactly what I said about Assange.

Dont blame him....blame ourselves for not preparing for it...or avoiding it.

Yes, we open the door to things when we apply our technology to be pro active....but you saw on 9-11 what happens when we are not pro-active.

The US is very technologically advanced and thus why we are pioneers with certain things such as nuclear arms etc.....It has a lot to do with two things...the size of our population and the "free market" we have here.

China has more people, but much less that are free to apply their ingenuity...and thus they lag behind in technology....so maybe your concern is that we are always one step ahead in technology.

But we must not forget...whereas our military is continually advancing itself in training and arms use to minimize and ultimately eliminate civilian casualties, we see other nations doing what they can to simply be able to use their military to win a war regardoless of civilian casualites.

I give credit to the US for lessons learned after WW2.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Very inciteful post Jillian.

So just to be clear....you dont mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world, but you do mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world.

So I guess it comes down to.....you dont mind a the US acting in an illegal way as long as you dont have an issue with what they are doing illegally.

And THAT is why we have a divide in this country.

Me? I dont mind thugs being made uncomfortable if it may help stop an attack....and I dont mind the US breaking the law if it results in thwarting Irans nuclear aspirations.

You see...I am a realist....not a dreamer.

Then being a realist surely you understand blowback for illegal activity.

Surely then you'd have no problems with US industries being attacked by the same or similar software .. you'd have no problems with foreign spying on our government .. you'd have no problems with a foreign government attacking the vunerable US elections systems and "electing" whoever they want.

The door to realism does not swing one way.

China does much of that now.

Spying is to be expected. Those Russian spies got sent home. I'd bet we got something for them, and won't know what for 75 years.

But we either accept to do it b/c they do it, or be prepared to be unarmed if it's ever done on a large scale.

I don't disagree with that .. however, what say you if we are ever hit with what we do to other countries?

China does it because all nations do it. Israel spies on us probably more than any nation.

But spying is a long way from nuclear annihilation. It's a long way from software viruses that cripple industries .. as you correctly stated.

Any idea how devastating such an attack would be to an already fragile and economically weak America?

Better to allow the Iranians to do what they're going to do anyway then open the door to American devastation.

 

[MaggieMae]

It doesn't. No one truly thought that AL Gore meant he invented the internet. It was a statement that was made by a politician that many of us played with for laughs.

No one truly believed that Obama thought there were 57 states either. But THAT line will live with him forever as well.

What is wrong with political humor?

But Obama did actually mistakenly say 57 states. Gore did not say he invented the internet. A pundant turned the word create and turned it into invent. It's an often repeated lie that many people believe. Some I suspect chose to believe it even though they know it's a lie.

Because "I took the initiative in creating the Internet" can easily be spun into "I invented the internet"...

And the truth is, you dont even need to spin "I took the initiative in creating the Internet"....the words alone IN THAT ORDER can easily mean that he is taking claim to inventing the interent.

"Inventing" means something entirely different from "initiating the creation." Gore obviously didn't have the scientific nor technical academic background to "invent" the Internet. But he was the first legislator to promote the concept in a manner others could understand, based on the science and technology (just as he did with "An Inconvenient Truth").

Internet pioneers Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn noted that, "as far back as the 1970s, Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship [...]

24 Jun 1986: Albert Gore introduce S 2594 Supercomputer Network Study Act of 1986.[51] As another example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises."[52]

Al Gore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Two Thumbs]

From my "little book of facts";

In all of recorded human history, there has been world peace for 2% of that time.



Just look back at history, who did we learn about in history class?
The peacemakers? HA!
We learned to admire who was better at killing other people.

The only difference between now and then is we can kill more faster with cool special effects.

 

[Jarhead]

Hey I got an idea! NUKE IRAN. That will solve all the problems. Git in, nuke 'em and git out.

This way we won't have to put up with their bullshit nonsenese indimidation tactics. They are underestimating the power of AMERICA!

Sure. And what happens when the entire area becomes a cloud of nuclear dust, Saudi Arabia's oil wells and refineries are shut down, and the price of your fucking gas goes to $20.00 a gallon? That is, IF you even have a car (or yourself) left to pump the gas once nukes are lobbed at this country and/or that cloud reaches us.

Forget that Maggie...what about the millions of innocent people...including children...that will die as a result of such a horrific act.

Maggie...you dont need to use "inconvenience" as a means to open the eyes of most of the right to the horros of war. We get it. We are not what you want to paint us out to be.