Obama set's back Iran's nuclear program by years

[jillian]

Stuxnet A U.S.-Israeli Joint Effort?

The worm itself now appears to have included two major components. One was designed to send Iran’s nuclear centrifuges spinning wildly out of control. Another seems right out of the movies: The computer program also secretly recorded what normal operations at the nuclear plant looked like, then played those readings back to plant operators, like a pre-recorded security tape in a bank heist, so that it would appear that everything was operating normally while the centrifuges were actually tearing themselves apart.

President Obama, first briefed on the program even before taking office, sped it up, according to officials familiar with the administration’s Iran strategy.

So glad Republicans left this for Obama to do. Could you imagine leaving technological warfare in the hands of Republicans? A political party that doesn't believe in science? A party that sends our technology to China?

Lets assume this story is true, and we have destroyed some of Irans property.

We have not declared war on Iran, therefore we can not legally destroy thier property.

It's a war crime.

Obama is a war mongering war criminal.

Whatcha say lefties?

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

 

[Jarhead]

This is a spook knife fight.

Been done for decades to avoid total war.

Putting aside the rhetoric...

It is no doubt a smart move to avoid a military action.
But...
It is no doubt reason for Iran to declare a war against us.

Will be interesting to see how "sane" that guy is..

And yes, I know his name, but cant spell it...so I went with "that guy"....

Iran has not started a war in decades..arguably centuries..

And the parameters I am using is initiating a conventional war.

No, they have not started a war....but as we are seeing, they sure know how to egg people on.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Stuxnet A U.S.-Israeli Joint Effort?

The worm itself now appears to have included two major components. One was designed to send Iran’s nuclear centrifuges spinning wildly out of control. Another seems right out of the movies: The computer program also secretly recorded what normal operations at the nuclear plant looked like, then played those readings back to plant operators, like a pre-recorded security tape in a bank heist, so that it would appear that everything was operating normally while the centrifuges were actually tearing themselves apart.

President Obama, first briefed on the program even before taking office, sped it up, according to officials familiar with the administration’s Iran strategy.

So glad Republicans left this for Obama to do. Could you imagine leaving technological warfare in the hands of Republicans? A political party that doesn't believe in science? A party that sends our technology to China?

Lets assume this story is true, and we have destroyed some of Irans property.

We have not declared war on Iran, therefore we can not legally destroy thier property.

It's a war crime.

Obama is a war mongering war criminal.

Whatcha say lefties?

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

You talking about Bush?

A crimes a crime. If he had something to do with it, he needs to be charged.

As gruesome as this will sound

I'm not against torture, not at all.

A gang of people have one of my kids and I have ahold of a person that knows where my kid is but won't talk no matter how kind I am.

I wonder how far I would go to get the info needed out of him, given the chance.

So when they are waterboarding murderers that know when other peoples kids will be killed, I'm ok with that.

And you can send me to jail after I save lives.

 

[Jarhead]

Stuxnet A U.S.-Israeli Joint Effort?

The worm itself now appears to have included two major components. One was designed to send Iran’s nuclear centrifuges spinning wildly out of control. Another seems right out of the movies: The computer program also secretly recorded what normal operations at the nuclear plant looked like, then played those readings back to plant operators, like a pre-recorded security tape in a bank heist, so that it would appear that everything was operating normally while the centrifuges were actually tearing themselves apart.

President Obama, first briefed on the program even before taking office, sped it up, according to officials familiar with the administration’s Iran strategy.

So glad Republicans left this for Obama to do. Could you imagine leaving technological warfare in the hands of Republicans? A political party that doesn't believe in science? A party that sends our technology to China?

Lets assume this story is true, and we have destroyed some of Irans property.

We have not declared war on Iran, therefore we can not legally destroy thier property.

It's a war crime.

Obama is a war mongering war criminal.

Whatcha say lefties?

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

Very inciteful post Jillian.

So just to be clear....you dont mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world, but you do mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world.

So I guess it comes down to.....you dont mind a the US acting in an illegal way as long as you dont have an issue with what they are doing illegally.

And THAT is why we have a divide in this country.

Me? I dont mind thugs being made uncomfortable if it may help stop an attack....and I dont mind the US breaking the law if it results in thwarting Irans nuclear aspirations.

You see...I am a realist....not a dreamer.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

U.S. on Alert Over Stuxnet Virus Threat

Virus Targeting Iran's Nuclear Sites Could Spread To Industries Around World, Experts Say

(AP) A malicious computer attack that appears to target Iran's nuclear plants can be modified to wreak havoc on industrial control systems around the world, affecting the production of everything from chemicals to baby formula, government officials and cyberexperts warned Wednesday.

Experts told senators that attackers can use information made public about the so-called Stuxnet virus to develop variations targeting other industries, and that the worm's consequences go "beyond any threat we have seen."

The code has attacked industrial sites in Iran and several other countries, and infected several employees' laptops at the Bushehr nuclear plans. Iran has said it believes Stuxnet is part of a Western plot to sabotage its nuclear program, but experts see few signs of major damage at Iranian facilities.

Specific industrial control systems using Windows software are vulnerable to the code. These are used in many critical sectors, from automobile assembly to mixing products such as chemicals and baby formula, Sean McGurk, acting director of Homeland Security's national cybersecurity operations center, told the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

"This code can automatically enter a system, steal the formula for the product you are manufacturing, alter the ingredients being mixed in your product and indicate to the operator and your antivirus software that everything is functioning as expected," McGurk testified at a cybersecurity hearing.

Dean Turner, director of the Global Intelligence Network at Symantec Corp., told the panel that the worm showed that such attacks were possible. The "real-world implications of Stuxnet are beyond any threat we have seen in the past," he said.

Stuxnet Clues Point to Uranium Enrichment Target

Stuxnet: Fact vs. Theory

But Turner added that the code's highly sophisticated structure and techniques also could mean that it is a one-in-a-decade occurrence. The virus is so complex and costly to develop "that a select few attackers would be capable of producing a similar threat," he said. "We would not expect masses of threats of similar sophistication to suddenly appear."

Experts said governments and industries can do much more to protect critical systems.

Michael Assante, who heads the newly created, not-for-profit National Board of Information Security Examiners, told lawmakers that control systems need to be walled off from other networks to make it harder for hackers to access them.

"We can no longer ignore known system weaknesses and simply accept current system limitations," he said. "We must admit that our current security strategies are too disjointed and are often, in unintended ways, working against our efforts to address" cybersecurity challenges.

Assante said leaders must understand that the most dangerous attacks won't disable a system, but instead will take control of it and manipulate it to trigger accidents or unintended action.

U.S. on Alert Over Stuxnet Virus Threat - CBS News

Everybody patting themselves on the back.

Democrats .. Obama did it.

Republicans .. Bush did it.

When in fact, like our testing of the nuclear bomb on citizens in Japan, we may have once again unleashed something we cannot control and may come right back to bite us in the ass.

... all in a futile attempt to keep Iran from acquiring what both Isreal and the US possess .. and both threaten to use.

Incredible

Which side will be rushing to take credit then.

Cry HAVOK! and let slip the hounds of war!

hahaha

Got bisquits to keep them from killing us?

Thank you for that very typical display of right-wing intellect.

 

[Jarhead]

Lets assume this story is true, and we have destroyed some of Irans property.

We have not declared war on Iran, therefore we can not legally destroy thier property.

It's a war crime.

Obama is a war mongering war criminal.

Whatcha say lefties?

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

You talking about Bush?

A crimes a crime. If he had something to do with it, he needs to be charged.

As gruesome as this will sound

I'm not against torture, not at all.

A gang of people have one of my kids and I have ahold of a person that knows where my kid is but won't talk no matter how kind I am.

I wonder how far I would go to get the info needed out of him, given the chance.

So when they are waterboarding murderers that know when other peoples kids will be killed, I'm ok with that.

And you can send me to jail after I save lives.

yep..

Gotta question why anyone would let their children die becuase they dont want to hurt the feelings of the man who was part of the kidnapping.

Portect the feelings of the kidnapper at the cost of your childs life.

Amazing how ideology would allow a parent to let his/her child die.

Or would that be a "different story" to them?

 

[Two Thumbs]

U.S. on Alert Over Stuxnet Virus Threat

Virus Targeting Iran's Nuclear Sites Could Spread To Industries Around World, Experts Say

(AP) A malicious computer attack that appears to target Iran's nuclear plants can be modified to wreak havoc on industrial control systems around the world, affecting the production of everything from chemicals to baby formula, government officials and cyberexperts warned Wednesday.

Experts told senators that attackers can use information made public about the so-called Stuxnet virus to develop variations targeting other industries, and that the worm's consequences go "beyond any threat we have seen."

The code has attacked industrial sites in Iran and several other countries, and infected several employees' laptops at the Bushehr nuclear plans. Iran has said it believes Stuxnet is part of a Western plot to sabotage its nuclear program, but experts see few signs of major damage at Iranian facilities.

Specific industrial control systems using Windows software are vulnerable to the code. These are used in many critical sectors, from automobile assembly to mixing products such as chemicals and baby formula, Sean McGurk, acting director of Homeland Security's national cybersecurity operations center, told the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

"This code can automatically enter a system, steal the formula for the product you are manufacturing, alter the ingredients being mixed in your product and indicate to the operator and your antivirus software that everything is functioning as expected," McGurk testified at a cybersecurity hearing.

Dean Turner, director of the Global Intelligence Network at Symantec Corp., told the panel that the worm showed that such attacks were possible. The "real-world implications of Stuxnet are beyond any threat we have seen in the past," he said.

Stuxnet Clues Point to Uranium Enrichment Target

Stuxnet: Fact vs. Theory

But Turner added that the code's highly sophisticated structure and techniques also could mean that it is a one-in-a-decade occurrence. The virus is so complex and costly to develop "that a select few attackers would be capable of producing a similar threat," he said. "We would not expect masses of threats of similar sophistication to suddenly appear."

Experts said governments and industries can do much more to protect critical systems.

Michael Assante, who heads the newly created, not-for-profit National Board of Information Security Examiners, told lawmakers that control systems need to be walled off from other networks to make it harder for hackers to access them.

"We can no longer ignore known system weaknesses and simply accept current system limitations," he said. "We must admit that our current security strategies are too disjointed and are often, in unintended ways, working against our efforts to address" cybersecurity challenges.

Assante said leaders must understand that the most dangerous attacks won't disable a system, but instead will take control of it and manipulate it to trigger accidents or unintended action.

U.S. on Alert Over Stuxnet Virus Threat - CBS News

Everybody patting themselves on the back.

Democrats .. Obama did it.

Republicans .. Bush did it.

When in fact, like our testing of the nuclear bomb on citizens in Japan, we may have once again unleashed something we cannot control and may come right back to bite us in the ass.

... all in a futile attempt to keep Iran from acquiring what both Isreal and the US possess .. and both threaten to use.

Incredible

Which side will be rushing to take credit then.

Cry HAVOK! and let slip the hounds of war!

hahaha

Got bisquits to keep them from killing us?

Thank you for that very typical display of right-wing intellect.

Did it go over your head?
Are you assuming that I disagree?
Did you not see the pos rep I sent you for that post?

 

[Truthmatters]

torture doesnt work.

You get unreliable intell from torture

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Lets assume this story is true, and we have destroyed some of Irans property.

We have not declared war on Iran, therefore we can not legally destroy thier property.

It's a war crime.

Obama is a war mongering war criminal.

Whatcha say lefties?

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

Very inciteful post Jillian.

So just to be clear....you dont mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world, but you do mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world.

So I guess it comes down to.....you dont mind a the US acting in an illegal way as long as you dont have an issue with what they are doing illegally.

And THAT is why we have a divide in this country.

Me? I dont mind thugs being made uncomfortable if it may help stop an attack....and I dont mind the US breaking the law if it results in thwarting Irans nuclear aspirations.

You see...I am a realist....not a dreamer.

Then being a realist surely you understand blowback for illegal activity.

Surely then you'd have no problems with US industries being attacked by the same or similar software .. you'd have no problems with foreign spying on our government .. you'd have no problems with a foreign government attacking the vunerable US elections systems and "electing" whoever they want.

The door to realism does not swing one way.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

You talking about Bush?

A crimes a crime. If he had something to do with it, he needs to be charged.

As gruesome as this will sound

I'm not against torture, not at all.

A gang of people have one of my kids and I have ahold of a person that knows where my kid is but won't talk no matter how kind I am.

I wonder how far I would go to get the info needed out of him, given the chance.

So when they are waterboarding murderers that know when other peoples kids will be killed, I'm ok with that.

And you can send me to jail after I save lives.

yep..

Gotta question why anyone would let their children die becuase they dont want to hurt the feelings of the man who was part of the kidnapping.

Portect the feelings of the kidnapper at the cost of your childs life.

Amazing how ideology would allow a parent to let his/her child die.

Or would that be a "different story" to them?[/QUOTE]



Push comes to shove, a parent will do what it takes to save thier kids.

It will be the exceedingly rare person that will let thier kids die to remain a pacifist.

 

[Two Thumbs]

torture doesnt work.

You get unreliable intell from torture

then how come we saved lives and got more bad guys?

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Cry HAVOK! and let slip the hounds of war!

hahaha

Got bisquits to keep them from killing us?

Thank you for that very typical display of right-wing intellect.

Did it go over your head?
Are you assuming that I disagree?
Did you not see the pos rep I sent you for that post?

Ahhh .. my bad .. it did go over my head.

Sorry, my apologies.

 

[Jarhead]

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

Very inciteful post Jillian.

So just to be clear....you dont mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world, but you do mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world.

So I guess it comes down to.....you dont mind a the US acting in an illegal way as long as you dont have an issue with what they are doing illegally.

And THAT is why we have a divide in this country.

Me? I dont mind thugs being made uncomfortable if it may help stop an attack....and I dont mind the US breaking the law if it results in thwarting Irans nuclear aspirations.

You see...I am a realist....not a dreamer.

Then being a realist surely you understand blowback for illegal activity.

Surely then you'd have no problems with US industries being attacked by the same or similar software .. you'd have no problems with foreign spying on our government .. you'd have no problems with a foreign government attacking the vunerable US elections systems and "electing" whoever they want.

The door to realsim does not swing one way.

I would have a great problem with all you say.
But it is something I would expect.
And we should prepare for it.
It is reality...and as I said, I am a realist.

If you recall, people decided it may be best to "befriend" Hitler at the beginning.
How did that pan out?

What is real, is real.

 

[MaggieMae]

Plus we must remind him how quickly N, Korea wnet Nuclear because of clinton

The Yongbyon complex is at the heart of the North's plutonium weapons program. It consists of a five-megawatt reactor, whose construction began in 1980, a fuel fabrication facility and a plutonium reprocessing plant, where weapons-grade material is extracted from spent fuel rods. The site about 100 km (60 miles) north of Pyongyang also contains a 50-megawatt reactor whose construction was suspended under a 1994 nuclear deal with the United States.

Factbox: A look at North Korea's nuclear arms program | Reuters

Clinton was president in 1980? Construction was SUSPENDED in 1994. Who was president in 1994?

Oops.

Clinton was president in 1980? Construction was SUSPENDED in 1994

Carter was president in 1980
According toi clinton he had N. Korea under control but as soon as Bush became President word got out just how advance N korea had advance it's nuclear program while clinton was president. Meaning you're a fool

Regarding North Korea, no one can ever trust what they say (or pledge) they're going to do, period. Here is the simple truth about negotiations with North Korea over its nuclear program. The blame game needs to STOP, on this and all the other issues.

Numerous multilateral and bilateral efforts to engage North Korea diplomatically in response to its nuclear weapons program have remained fruitless. North Korea joined the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1985 and concluded its safeguards agreement with the IAEA after much delay in April 1992. In May 1992, the first IAEA inspections of declared sites and facilities took place. In early 1993, the DPRK denied IAEA access to two suspect nuclear waste sites. In March 1993, North Korea announced its intention to withdraw from the NPT and further obstructed the work of IAEA inspectors. Bilateral negotiations initiated by the United States diffused the crisis and resulted in the Agreed Framework of 1994. Under this agreement, North Korea froze its plutonium program for almost a decade and allowed for IAEA verification of the freeze. However, neither the US nor North Korea was fully satisfied with the agreement reached and the Agreed Framework subsequently collapsed after President Bush came into office in 2001.

Key Issues: Nuclear Weapons: Issues: Proliferation: North Korea

 

[Jarhead]

torture doesnt work.

You get unreliable intell from torture

Really?

If you were being tortured, would you give out your PIN number to your ATM card?

If you were told...if the PIN number is incorrect, we will make it even MORE uncomfortable...would you give out a false PIN number?

TM...the only reason you say torture doesnt work is becuase ideologues say so.

But logic pretty much says otherwise.

So do as I did to decide if it works or not....put yourself in the position of being tortured..

What would you reveal?

 

[MaggieMae]

yeah, because when a republican sits in the WH, all technological advances stop

Pretty much.

Survey Finds Bush Administration Interfering with EPA Scientists

Survey Finds Bush Administration Interfering with EPA Scientists

By J.R. Pegg
WASHINGTON, DC, April 24, 2008 (ENS) - The Bush administration has frequently meddled with scientists at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, according to a survey released today by a scientific advocacy group. The Union of Concerned Scientists reports that nearly two-thirds of the 1,586 staff EPA scientists who responded to a questionnaire complained of recent political interference with their work.

The reported interference is greatest in offices where scientists write regulations and conduct risk assessments.

"Our investigation found an agency in crisis," said Francesca Grifo, director of Union of Concerned Scientists's Scientific Integrity Program, who contends the report reflects an effort by the administration to distort science to "accommodate a narrow political agenda."

Bush covers up climate research | Environment | The Observer

Bush covers up climate research
White House officials play down its own scientists' evidence of global warming

In their letter the FDA dissidents alleged that agency managers use intimidation to squelch scientific debate, leading to the approval of medical devices whose effectiveness is questionable and which may not be entirely safe.

"Managers with incompatible, discordant and irrelevant scientific and clinical expertise in devices...have ignored serious safety and effectiveness concerns of FDA experts," the letter said. "Managers have ordered, intimidated and coerced FDA experts to modify scientific evaluations, conclusions and recommendations in violation of the laws, rules and regulations, and to accept clinical and technical data that is not scientifically valid."

FDA Scientists Complain to Obama of 'Corruption' | Crooks and Liars

EPA scientist is an oxymoron. Shouldn't you have to do more than collect pond water in your mom's old mayonnaise jars to be a scientist?

See the post #12 directly above yours. Begin to grow up.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Thank you for that very typical display of right-wing intellect.

Did it go over your head?
Are you assuming that I disagree?
Did you not see the pos rep I sent you for that post?

Ahhh .. my bad .. it did go over my head.

Sorry, my apologies.

No problem. that would be the first thing we've agreed on.

A computer virus is like a regular virus. Once it's out, you can only treat the infected.



I also did a ahort study on the use of war dogs, b/c I wondered why they weren't used more often.

Turns out, if the trianers are killed, the dogs don't know who thier freinds are and won't actually accept food as a bribe to play nice, so they end up attacking anyone that comes along b/c they follow the last order given until dead.

 

[MaggieMae]

Hey.....dont forget to catch Cheney tomorrow..................

A little tidbit from the coming attractions................

And apparently, from comments during his interview with Jamie Gangel, so did Cheney.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Very inciteful post Jillian.

So just to be clear....you dont mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world, but you do mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world.

So I guess it comes down to.....you dont mind a the US acting in an illegal way as long as you dont have an issue with what they are doing illegally.

And THAT is why we have a divide in this country.

Me? I dont mind thugs being made uncomfortable if it may help stop an attack....and I dont mind the US breaking the law if it results in thwarting Irans nuclear aspirations.

You see...I am a realist....not a dreamer.

Then being a realist surely you understand blowback for illegal activity.

Surely then you'd have no problems with US industries being attacked by the same or similar software .. you'd have no problems with foreign spying on our government .. you'd have no problems with a foreign government attacking the vunerable US elections systems and "electing" whoever they want.

The door to realsim does not swing one way.

I would have a great problem with all you say.
But it is something I would expect.
And we should prepare for it.
It is reality...and as I said, I am a realist.

If you recall, people decided it may be best to "befriend" Hitler at the beginning.
How did that pan out?

What is real, is real.

The reality is that there is nothing we can do to stop Iran from acquiring nukes .. and that's a good thing. All we can do is make things worse. We have NO .. as in ZERO moral grounds to keep anyone from acquiring nukes. NONE.

WE created this nuclear world, now we must live with it,

 

[Two Thumbs]

I'm certain its illegal (I'm ok with it, though) but I don't believe it's a war crime as defined by the War Crimes Act.

Torture is though.

As is cruel or inhuman treatment.

United States Code: Title 18,2441. War crimes | LII / Legal Information Institute

who's the war mongering war criminal again?

whatcha say rightie?

Very inciteful post Jillian.

So just to be clear....you dont mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world, but you do mind the US doing something illegal in an attempt to protect the world.

So I guess it comes down to.....you dont mind a the US acting in an illegal way as long as you dont have an issue with what they are doing illegally.

And THAT is why we have a divide in this country.

Me? I dont mind thugs being made uncomfortable if it may help stop an attack....and I dont mind the US breaking the law if it results in thwarting Irans nuclear aspirations.

You see...I am a realist....not a dreamer.

Then being a realist surely you understand blowback for illegal activity.

Surely then you'd have no problems with US industries being attacked by the same or similar software .. you'd have no problems with foreign spying on our government .. you'd have no problems with a foreign government attacking the vunerable US elections systems and "electing" whoever they want.

The door to realism does not swing one way.

China does much of that now.

Spying is to be expected. Those Russian spies got sent home. I'd bet we got something for them, and won't know what for 75 years.

But we either accept to do it b/c they do it, or be prepared to be unarmed if it's ever done on a large scale.