Obama says our borders are secure, what say you?

[AVG-JOE]

And you have done a shit job because it seems at least as if you think the "natives" were all friends and not fighting the shit out of each other for land, women, food, whatever...

My point was we don’t have to kill anyone, you posted a picture of Indians with weapons to kill. Going after someone that employs illegal’s is hardly the same as shooting/killing people.

You really take yourself THAT seriously, don't you?

The writing style ain't bad... gets A's in both spelling and grammar... has something relevant to add to the conversation... just doesn't get sarcastic humor...

Oh well... [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8JA9Qs2Mho]YouTube - ‪Meat Loaf - Two Out of Three Ain't Bad‬‏[/ame]

Welcome to the board, Avory and relax - nobody is advocating killing anyone.

Yes, both you and Swallow have pushed the retarded idea that dealing with illegals means killing them... Of course as Swallow just flat out says, it only means killing illegals in you're a conservative.

Obama has failed at the illegal immigration issue and I don’t see why people try and make the debate a you either love all humans or you want to kill them when looking at fixing this very basic and easy to fix problem.

If you're not even going to read what I write, why should I waste my time with you? It was sarcasm. If you still don't get it, just let it go.

 

[Avorysuds]

You really take yourself THAT seriously, don't you?

The writing style ain't bad... gets A's in both spelling and grammar... has something relevant to add to the conversation... just doesn't get sarcastic humor...

Oh well... YouTube - ‪Meat Loaf - Two Out of Three Ain't Bad‬‏

Welcome to the board, Avory and relax - nobody is advocating killing anyone.

Yes, both you and Swallow have pushed the retarded idea that dealing with illegals means killing them... Of course as Swallow just flat out says, it only means killing illegals in you're a conservative.

Obama has failed at the illegal immigration issue and I don’t see why people try and make the debate a you either love all humans or you want to kill them when looking at fixing this very basic and easy to fix problem.

If you're not even going to read what I write, why should I waste my time with you? It was sarcasm. If you still don't get it, just let it go.

Oh lol sorry. I bounce back and forth between these boards and real life sorry haha.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The last time the United States was invaded over land..was when?

when the first Illegals came over....20 million of them later.....i think that may qualify as an invasion....

Sorry..didn't know your name was Sitting Bull.

Anyone else? I mean not of Native American decent?

the 20 million i am talking about are not of Native American Decent......and i bet you already knew that......was this a trick question?.....

 

[FiscalSanity]

Joe,

You should move to Colorado, California, or one of the handful of other states where smoking that silly stuff is (more or less) legal.

You made some good points in this thread, and I hope no one took my original post the wrong way. What I was trying to show was that this sort of human migration is something that's been going on for a long time, and that history seems to indicate that one way or the other that new people are going to move into the neighborhood. The only questions seems to be whether or not the US is going to end up going the way of Rome and be overwhelmed, or is going to be like China and simply absorb them into it's culture sooner or later.

 

[Harry Dresden]

What's the head count on deaths during the Obama administration? I doubt it's a fraction of what deaths were caused by the Bush administration.

So your pious attitude on these matters is bullshit.

Sallow i think you should asking this question after Obama is done being president......8 years versus 3 is not fair.....if he gets re-elected and these wars are still going on.....then it just may be a fair contest.....

 

[jillian]

Illegal immigrants = potential dem voters as soon as we can amnesty 'em. The dems must be kicking themselves hard for not doing this when they had the chance.

it's not quite that simple. neither "side" wants to really do immigration reform. it's not that the dems see "potential voters", it's that they have an interest in not offending latino voters who do vote dem in large numbers. given that they will also be the majority in this country, that's probably good planning.

on the flip side, repubs see cheap labor for corporatists and that benefits them.

you don't really think that given the repubs had the executive and legislative branches for 8 years, that they wouldn't have done something if they wanted to, do you?

do you see the current repub majority in the house really trying to do something? (and i don't mean silly extreme things like AZ.,..... I mean realistic reform.

me? personally, i think we should just enforce the laws we have and it would make a world of differene. but that's just me and i tend not to go for the cleaver when the scalpel will work.

 

[uscitizen]

Our borders are just as secure as when Bush was president.

 

[uscitizen]

Illegal immigrants = potential dem voters as soon as we can amnesty 'em. The dems must be kicking themselves hard for not doing this when they had the chance.

it's not quite that simple. neither "side" wants to really do immigration reform. it's not that the dems see "potential voters", it's that they have an interest in not offending latino voters who do vote dem in large numbers. given that they will also be the majority in this country, that's probably good planning.

on the flip side, repubs see cheap labor for corporatists and that benefits them.

you don't really think that given the repubs had the executive and legislative branches for 8 years, that they wouldn't have done something if they wanted to, do you?

do you see the current repub majority in the house really trying to do something? (and i don't mean silly extreme things like AZ.,..... I mean realistic reform.

me? personally, i think we should just enforce the laws we have and it would make a world of differene. but that's just me and i tend not to go for the cleaver when the scalpel will work.

Yepper, if we do not even enforce the laws we have now why the heck do we need to make new ones?

but perhaps we do need rougher punishments for those who hire illegals?
Like prison and or revoking their business liscence for repeated offenses.

 

[FiscalSanity]

Jillian,

You're right. If the Fed's would enforce the existing laws and stop allowing certain cities to ignore the rules and act as safeharbors individual states like AZ wouldn't need to be coming up with these kind of laws. You're also right that both parties have a vested interest in not annoying constituents that approve of illegal immigration.

 

[Wiseacre]

Illegal immigrants = potential dem voters as soon as we can amnesty 'em. The dems must be kicking themselves hard for not doing this when they had the chance.

it's not quite that simple. neither "side" wants to really do immigration reform. it's not that the dems see "potential voters", it's that they have an interest in not offending latino voters who do vote dem in large numbers. given that they will also be the majority in this country, that's probably good planning.

on the flip side, repubs see cheap labor for corporatists and that benefits them.

you don't really think that given the repubs had the executive and legislative branches for 8 years, that they wouldn't have done something if they wanted to, do you?

do you see the current repub majority in the house really trying to do something? (and i don't mean silly extreme things like AZ.,..... I mean realistic reform.

me? personally, i think we should just enforce the laws we have and it would make a world of differene. but that's just me and i tend not to go for the cleaver when the scalpel will work.

FWIW, I think Bush did support a guest worker program and the House and Senate both passed immigration reform bills, but they died in conference. Certainly the Dems had their shot and did nothing in 09 and 10. Do I think the repubs will do anything if they do take control of the WH and Congress? I think they'd be fools not to, the latino vote is the fastest growing demographic in the US.

The stuff about cheap labor for corporatists? That's total BS.

 

[uscitizen]

Illegal immigrants = potential dem voters as soon as we can amnesty 'em. The dems must be kicking themselves hard for not doing this when they had the chance.

it's not quite that simple. neither "side" wants to really do immigration reform. it's not that the dems see "potential voters", it's that they have an interest in not offending latino voters who do vote dem in large numbers. given that they will also be the majority in this country, that's probably good planning.

on the flip side, repubs see cheap labor for corporatists and that benefits them.

you don't really think that given the repubs had the executive and legislative branches for 8 years, that they wouldn't have done something if they wanted to, do you?

do you see the current repub majority in the house really trying to do something? (and i don't mean silly extreme things like AZ.,..... I mean realistic reform.

me? personally, i think we should just enforce the laws we have and it would make a world of differene. but that's just me and i tend not to go for the cleaver when the scalpel will work.

FWIW, I think Bush did support a guest worker program and the House and Senate both passed immigration reform bills, but they died in conference. Certainly the Dems had their shot and did nothing in 09 and 10. Do I think the repubs will do anything if they do take control of the WH and Congress? I think they'd be fools not to, the latino vote is the fastest growing demographic in the US.

The stuff about cheap labor for corporatists? That's total BS.

It is not BS, CO was talking about using prison labor for AG work after a bunch of the illegals got ran off.
The building boom labor was a high percentage of illegal laborors.
Much of the ag labor is STILL illegals. I live in Horse and AG country and see it daily.

 

[Wiseacre]

And you think the GOP are the only ones defending AG corps? So tell me, who voted against the bill in the Senate to kill the ethanol subsidies that benefited big AG? That would be every senator from the farm states, both repub and dem. It was both sides, not just the GOP.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe,

You should move to Colorado, California, or one of the handful of other states where smoking that silly stuff is (more or less) legal.

You made some good points in this thread, and I hope no one took my original post the wrong way. What I was trying to show was that this sort of human migration is something that's been going on for a long time, and that history seems to indicate that one way or the other that new people are going to move into the neighborhood. The only questions seems to be whether or not the US is going to end up going the way of Rome and be overwhelmed, or is going to be like China and simply absorb them into it's culture sooner or later.

I'm not really into the argument for the smoke - although if I smell it at a party I might breathe a little deeper - I just hate to see an industry with $10 billion in annual sales being reserved for criminals who don't pay taxes and are unregulated in selling to minors. The demand isn't going anywhere.

 

[FiscalSanity]

US,

It's a heck of a lot more then just the Agricultural industry. I live in Denver, and in the part of town I'm in there are more signs in Spanish then there are in English. Most of my neighbors are immigrants, some legal, and some not. These people aren't working in agriculture-some are in construction, but just as many are mechanics, hair stylists, etc. A small percentage are business owners, but in my neighborhood there are plenty of small businesses that are entirely staffed by immigrants and that's major source of income is other immigrants. What's odd is how many of these Mexican themed businesses are actually owned by orientals. Go figure.....

 

[FiscalSanity]

Joe,

Here in Colorado there is still something of a black market, but all dispensary sales are being taxed. You actually end up paying more in tax then you would buying something like aspirin, because the state put an additional tax on medical marijuana sales. I haven't seen any revenue figures, but considering how many cars come and go from the one down the street from my office they have to be collecting a ton in sales taxes.

 

[LilOlLady]

We want to blame the Democrats for not doing nothing about illegal immigration but there are as many Republicans that support it also. IF Obama has another 4 years he will get it done. Who is running that do not support some kind of legalization? It's called pandering.

Poll: Majority of Republicans support ‘amnesty’A new national survey confirms our most recent polls that the majority of Americans support comprehensive immigration reform. But what’s most interesting about this polling data from the Benenson Strategy Group is that 62 percent of Republicans polled say that illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay and apply for citizenship.

An excerpt from a summary of the poll:

Poll: Majority of Republicans support ‘amnesty’ | Immigration Chronicles | a Chron.com blog

 

[FiscalSanity]

Lady,

I just think that it's finally starting to really click with people that we can't possibly deport that many people, assuming we could even find them. The real sitcking point is what to do to stop even more from coming after the amnesty. The amnesty back in the 80's was supposed to solve the illegal immigration problem, and we all know how well that worked out.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe,

Here in Colorado there is still something of a black market, but all dispensary sales are being taxed. You actually end up paying more in tax then you would buying something like aspirin, because the state put an additional tax on medical marijuana sales. I haven't seen any revenue figures, but considering how many cars come and go from the one down the street from my office they have to be collecting a ton in sales taxes.

That's partly my point - 'medical' marijuana is a stupid idea. Weed is a party supply like beer and the last thing I want to think about on Saturday night is finding a prescription for beer

The question remains - How much does a black market endeavor have to gross in sales before We, The People are smart enough to take the revenue stream away from criminals and illegals and give it to tax paying Americans?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Lady,

I just think that it's finally starting to really click with people that we can't possibly deport that many people, assuming we could even find them. The real sitcking point is what to do to stop even more from coming after the amnesty. The amnesty back in the 80's was supposed to solve the illegal immigration problem, and we all know how well that worked out.

Simple. Levy BIG fines against the individuals hiding behind the corporate paper of any company caught hiring someone not authorized to work, and offer life changing rewards to employees who rat them out.