Obama risks trade war with China

Limit malpractice awards.

great way to focus on pure utter trivia

the most important way to control costs in any industry is to have customers spend their own money. This is why Republicans support vouchers, HSA's, and various methods to make the system more Republican and capitalist.

Liberals simply lack the ability to understand capitalism; accordingly we can identify the source of all our problems in health care. It is not coincidence that our health care is 2-3 times overpriced, it is 100% owing to the liberal's pathetic, non-intellectual, bleeding heart involvement in that particular industry.

Were they involved in every industry that way we'd be 2-3 times overpriced in every industry.
Can anyone deny this with a straight face? Can anyone deny that Communist China instantly saved 30 million human beings from liberal en masse starvation the instant they switched to Republican capitalism? A liberal can deny it, but only because a liberal feels no requirement to think whatsoever. It is a very sad fact.
Under Obamacare, employers issue vouchers for low income employees to purchase health insurance. HSA's still exist.

If patents were required to pay for all their healthcare, mortality rates would rise particularly among the poor because most people would not save enough money to see their way through major illnesses. Purchasing insurance removes the patients's incentive to keep costs low and often takes the decision making out of the patients hands.
 
[Under Obamacare, employers issue vouchers for low income employees to purchase health insurance. HSA's still exist.


yes but BO care will reduce them not expand them so that you would have consumers shopping as a major element in moving toward capitalism. BO had 2 communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders so what do you expect?


If patents were required to pay for all their healthcare, mortality rates would rise particularly among the poor because most people would not save enough money to see their way through major illnesses.

you would start by sending everyone a voucher so they would have exactly what they have now. But, because it would, in effect, be their own money, they would shop and costs would be cut in half so they could buy double what they buy now!!



Purchasing insurance removes the patients's incentive to keep costs low and often takes the decision making out of the patients hands.

not at all since patients would shop for insurance and since insurance companies would shop for low price and high quality in a Republican capitalist world. Notice that as a liberal you will always appear to be very very slow. Are you ok with that?
 
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Is Globally Outsourced Chinese Labor More Akin To Slave Labor

of course thats a silly silly absurd liberal notion. A slave has no choice about job or pay. In China they take the new factory jobs because they offer more, not less, than they were making. 10's of millions flood into the major cities each year when they hear of the high pay.

And of course China is now losing many jobs to SE Asia because the wages are even lower there. So, if you were a Chinese liberal would you say the real slaves in SE Asia??
 
We need fewer words and more thought. Let's focus on--
...Higher US wages relative to wages abroad make foreign labor more attractive to manufacture...
If that were true than lower paid US workers would be 'more attractive' and retained, while higher paid US workers would be laid off and replaced with foreigners. We know this is not what's happening so we have to accept the fact that high "US wages relative to wages abroad" is not why US companies hire foreigners.

The reason companies are hiring in foreign countries workers that are worth less than the US minimum wage is because if they did that in the US they'd go to jail.

The reason we don't export our higher paying jobs is for several reasons. First corporations aren't going to move corporate hq's to foreign countries to save money. CEO's are going to live where they want to live, before they just try and save an extra buck. Second, and more importantly, there is not an abundance of skilled workers in foreign countries that are willing to work for pennies on the dollar. Do you really think there are 10k's of engineers in china willing to work for half the price (or less) of american engineers, while still offering the same quality of work? The answer is simple, no there is not.
Further, if there was a country that had an abundance of people that were good with computers, lets say India, we would probably export those high paying IT jobs to it. Wait...ohh thats right WE DID DO THAT.
Even further, some very high paying jobs can't be exported. Can you export doctors? I don't many people are going to be willing to fly halfway around the world to see their doctor, that doesn't speak their language.
 
OUt coursing of factory and service jobs is only the beginning of the process.

A lot of jobs exist in this nation solely because of licensure and laws.

When those laws are overturned then a whole lot more jobs are on the international block.

Example?

The law, much of medicine, too.

What do you think that only an American can understand American law?

Wrongo!

What? Do you think that the rediologist who reads your x-ays has to BE IN THE USA?

Wrongo.

What? Do you think that the lab tech reading the PISS TESTS of welfare recipients hasd to be in the USA to read the tests?

Wrong again.

The assult on US labor and unionism and free trade are all part of the same changing business model.

They are class war masquarading as free market.
 
The assult on US labor and unionism and free trade are all part of the same changing business model.

They are class war masquarading as free market.

actually the business model is capitalism:we got from the stone age to here by shopping for the lowest price. A liberal will simply lack the ability to understand that.
 
Do you really think there are 10k's of engineers in china willing to work for half the price (or less) of american engineers,

yes, the NYTimes just did a big expose on Fox Conn where the iphone is made. If they needed to instantly change the glass cut for the iphone front for example it said they could have 10,000 workers and 3000 engineers on the job Sunday morning at 2:00AM!!

I recently hired a Chinese computer scientist. His plane landed at about 9:00PM on Sunday; he was hard at work by about 11:30PM.

South Korea has a new police force just to catch kids who are up in the middle of night doing homework. Its a new world folks!!
 
Do you really think there are 10k's of engineers in china willing to work for half the price (or less) of american engineers,

yes, the NYTimes just did a big expose on Fox Conn where the iphone is made. If they needed to instantly change the glass cut for the iphone front for example it said they could have 10,000 workers and 3000 engineers on the job Sunday morning at 2:00AM!!

I recently hired a Chinese computer scientist. His plane landed at about 9:00PM on Sunday; he was hard at work by about 11:30PM.

South Korea has a new police force just to catch kids who are up in the middle of night doing homework. Its a new world folks!!

Do you even realize that you are agreeing with me in my argument that high paying jobs are being exported, which is what I was trying to show, all you did was give 3 examples of it happening irl.
 
...The average wage of a factory worker in China is $1.68/hr, $3.50 in Mexico, and $3.00 in South Korea. In the US, it's about $22/hr...
Sounds like you've never hired and managed both $22/hr American workers and $1.68/hr foreign workers. It's eye-opening; when I ran overseas construction projects I used US unit cost performance data because it was the same regardless of unit labor cost. There's no way around the enormous gulf between American vs. foreign worker productivity.

This conversation seems to be stuck on that point, that you're unwilling to believe that it's markets that set prices and not laws. The info is all out there, with a quick google of US productivity anyone can find stuff like----so I'll stop pushing the point on the assumption (correct me if I err) that you're refusing to accept that wages are market labor prices and it's because you either don't want to believe Americans can be good at something or that you don't believe free markets work better than state run economies, or both.
...jobs are going overseas...
People say that without thinking.

It's comical to imagine a "job" being lifted up off the factory floor in America, then placed in a "box", and then shipped on a boat over to some foreign factory where the box is opened and the instant the "job" is unpacked there's a foreign worker who's been waiting all this time for the "job" to a arrive is suddenly able to begin working.

The idea is so amazingly stupid yet so many otherwise intellegent people espouse it.
 
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Do you really think there are 10k's of engineers in china willing to work for half the price (or less) of american engineers,

yes, the NYTimes just did a big expose on Fox Conn where the iphone is made. If they needed to instantly change the glass cut for the iphone front for example it said they could have 10,000 workers and 3000 engineers on the job Sunday morning at 2:00AM!!

I recently hired a Chinese computer scientist. His plane landed at about 9:00PM on Sunday; he was hard at work by about 11:30PM.

South Korea has a new police force just to catch kids who are up in the middle of night doing homework. Its a new world folks!!

Do you even realize that you are agreeing with me in my argument that high paying jobs are being exported, which is what I was trying to show, all you did was give 3 examples of it happening irl.

I was responding only to what I showed I was responding to. If we agree on other things, great. However, if you are middle of the road that probably means you lack the IQ to make a right decision. Sorry
 
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"...high paying jobs are being exported..."
--and the reason none are being imported is because of all those protective tariffs that keep out all those jobs built by slave labor and dumped in the US to kill off our domestic job creators.

Hey, either tell me you think it makes sense or lose the goofy "exporting jobs" shtick.
 
our economy is based upon consumption. The optimum benefits to the middle comes when we make what we consume.
according to Wal-Mart, whose "made in America" labeling campaign failed (i understand), US consumers refuse to consume what we make




...tell us all about the "Prosperity" we're experiencing due to NAFTA?...
In '93 when Clinton signed NAFTA only 120 million people had jobs and total private wealth was $24 trillion. Now we've got 140 million people working with a total wealth of $57T.
  • Since 1990, the employ-able US workforce has been 50% of the population
  • after 1993, the employ-ed US workforce rose from 46-49% of the population
  • Clinton's policies employed +3% of the entire country (nearly 10M persons)
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The reason companies are hiring in foreign countries workers that are worth less than the US minimum wage is because if they did that in the US they'd go to jail.
US businesses can profitably employ low-skill, low-wage workers; without US minimum-wages, they would hire US workers (for a few dollars per hour) ?
 
Here we go again. One of the GOP's classic arguments whenever we try to fix the trade imbalance with China or NAFTA. All they have is this argument and that Clinton signed NAFTA.
 
The average wage of a factory worker in China is $1.68/hr, $3.50 in Mexico, and $3.00 in South Korea. In the US, it's about $22/hr... not only are the wages far lower than in the US but so are benefit costs
is, or is not, US Labor perceived to be un-economically-competitively "over" priced ?
 
The problem of displaced workers is the failure of government to provide retraining
if the Private sector needs "re-trained" workers; then the Private sector should finance their "re-training", i.e. "extended on-the-job training", or "before-the-job re-training" ?




the problem is the free trade and special trade agreements that sent consumer good production to cheap labor. In an economy that is based upon consumption.
prima facie, US consumers want to earn high wages, but buy cheap products requiring low wages


This entire idea of a new economy... ASSUMES that americans, enough of them, will be able to attend a college, to get degrees in the fields that are paying living wages.
perhaps businesses could provide the "before-the-job re-training" that everybody needs ?


capitalism will not max out the wealth of the few, and create large middle classes simultaneously. It is an either or, if labor is considered.
from whence arises this seemingly artificial "we-they", "us-them", "Blues vs. Whites" division in society ?


The bottom line is that free trade has been a disaster for millions of middle income workers, wonderful for consumers, and a bonanza for Wall Street and investors.
prima facie, Clinton signed NAFTA, and employed nearly +10M Americans
 

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