Obama retakes oath of office

[Paulie]

The only other possible explanation is that Obama, having not recited the oath which gives him no executive authority yet, was actually a powerless president for about ~5 minutes, because had a situation abruptly occured between 12:00 and the time he took the oath that required executive action, he'd have literally been powerless to execute his duties.

So for a brief time, there was either a president Biden, or literally a powerless executive branch. Those are the only two possible scenarios.

 

[ReillyT]

The only other possible explanation is that Obama, having not recited the oath which gives him no executive authority yet, was actually a powerless president for about ~5 minutes, because had a situation abruptly occured between 12:00 and the time he took the oath that required executive action, he'd have literally been powerless to execute his duties.

So for a brief time, there was either a president Biden, or literally a powerless executive branch. Those are the only two possible scenarios.

I think that actually might be correct. Think of a situation where the President undergoes a medical procedure and passes executive authority to the VP until he is ready to again assume duties. The President doesn't cease to be President during this period, even though executive authority is passed to someone else.

This seems to be consistent with the constitution and the the information Jillian provided from wikipedia.

 

[Ravi]

I'm afraid that you are the one who isn't getting it......

but how are YOU not understanding that Joe Biden was never president? That's just bizarre.

Why else swear Biden in first?

 

[Paulie]

I think that actually might be correct. Think of a situation where the President undergoes a medical procedure and passes executive authority to the VP until he is ready to again assume duties. The President doesn't cease to be President during this period, even though executive authority is passed to someone else.

This seems to be consistent with the constitution and the the information Jillian provided from wikipedia.

Well then in the case of a powerless President Obama due to not taking the oath yet, who had the executive power?

And like Rav just asked, why swear in Biden first? That would stand to reason that he had executive power for a few minutes until Obama assumed it upon taking the oath.

Otherwise, there was a powerless executive branch for those few minutes.

 

[Ravi]

Well then in the case of a powerless President Obama due to not taking the oath yet, who had the executive power?

And like Rav just asked, why swear in Biden first? That would stand to reason that he had executive power for a few minutes until Obama assumed it upon taking the oath.

Otherwise, there was a powerless executive branch for those few minutes.

Yes, I do! LOL!

Did you notice Biden was sworn in well before noon? I wondered at the time why, but now it seems pretty clear why.

 

[Jon]

Why do you keep saying 5 minutes? It was 7 hours later than Obama took his oath.

And, this all points to one thing: the religious right was correct when they said Obama would not be sworn into office with a Bible.

 

[ReillyT]

Well then in the case of a powerless President Obama due to not taking the oath yet, who had the executive power?

And like Rav just asked, why swear in Biden first? That would stand to reason that he had executive power for a few minutes until Obama assumed it upon taking the oath.

Otherwise, there was a powerless executive branch for those few minutes.

This is just my guess, but I would assume that at 12pm Obama became President and Biden VP. Neither formally had executive authority until they were sworn in. At such time, Biden could exercise executive authority. Prior to Biden being sworn in at 12:00 pm, Pelosi could have exercised executive authority.

Why swear in Biden first? I think because it adds more pageantry.

Of course, I should add the caveat that if it ever came to the Supreme Court that Obama flubbed the oath of office, I think they would still determine that he could exercise executive authority and would hold all of his acts valid. There is only so far even the court will go to uphold form over substance.

 

[Jon]

This is just my guess, but I would assume that at 12pm Obama became President and Biden VP.

That's already been debunked. The 20th amendment only says that the former President's term ends at noon instead of the previous midnight, as to prevent the 12 hour delay. It says that at noon, the office shall be passed to his successor. Successor does NOT mean the President-elect. It means the person next in line. If the President-elect has taken his oath, he IS the next in line. If he has not taken an oath, it goes to the next person, which would be Biden.

 

[Paulie]

Why do you keep saying 5 minutes? It was 7 hours later than Obama took his oath.

And, this all points to one thing: the religious right was correct when they said Obama would not be sworn into office with a Bible.

Well the technicality obviously exists regarding the flub, so maybe the most technical way of looking at it is just that...for those 7 hours or whatever, until Obama retook it, Biden was acting executive.

I've come to understand it wouldn't have made much difference either way, but I also read that Obama's lawyers recommended he retake it. There was probably a pretty good reason why they would recommend that.

 

[jillian]

Ok, let's go over this slowly, shall we?



Let's hear your reasoning for how Obama could have possibly qualified, absent a recital of the required oath, as stated in Article 2, Section 1 which reads as follows:



PLEASE tell me you get it now. Everyone else finally seems to.

Please stop trying to pretend to give me lectures on the law. It's kind of pathetic. You have no understanding and are just flailing. You've been told how it works.

Now stop embarrasing yourself, honey.

 

[Jon]

Did you look at the 20th amendment? That specifically states that all terms end at noon for the President and Vice President.

That means their cabinet too.

No, as cabinets are not elected officials, their seats are upheld until a replacement is chosen.

 

[Jon]

Please stop trying to pretend to give me lectures on the law. It's kind of pathetic. You have no understanding and are just flailing. You've been told how it works.

Now stop embarrasing yourself, honey.

The only person being embarrassed here is you, the lawyer who can't understand a loophole in the system. Why should we take your word for it?

 

[ReillyT]

That's already been debunked. The 20th amendment only says that the former President's term ends at noon instead of the previous midnight, as to prevent the 12 hour delay. It says that at noon, the office shall be passed to his successor. Successor does NOT mean the President-elect. It means the person next in line. If the President-elect has taken his oath, he IS the next in line. If he has not taken an oath, it goes to the next person, which would be Biden.

Okay. This is not worth arguing about. My guess is that the USSC would accept that Obama is president, even if his oath was flubbed (I think they would read successor to mean the President-elect). I doubt that even technically, each VP that has taken an oath prior to the President was actually the President for 5 minutes.

Perhaps I am wrong. It still doesn't matter.

 

[Ravi]

On second thought, if Cheney is VP until noon, then Biden's swearing in before noon means nothing. So it makes sense that both president and vice-president are official at noon regardless of when they take the oath.

Jeesh, democracy is a mess.

 

[Gord]

Well whatever the true outcome was, I am just glad jillian showed up to again tell us how stupid we all are and how smart she is.

It just made my day...

 

[DiveCon]

On second thought, if Cheney is VP until noon, then Biden's swearing in before noon means nothing. So it makes sense that both president and vice-president are official at noon regardless of when they take the oath.

Jeesh, democracy is a mess.

thats why we arent a democracy, we are a republic


but quibbling over a few minutes and who would have had the executive authority is really a pointless debate

 

[Ravi]

thats why we arent a democracy, we are a republic


but quibbling over a few minutes and who would have had the executive authority is really a pointless debate

lol, but that's what we do best at USMB.

 

[DiveCon]

lol, but that's what we do best at USMB.

not all the time, but it sure does seem like it happens all too much

 

[Gord]

thats why we arent a democracy, we are a republic


but quibbling over a few minutes and who would have had the executive authority is really a pointless debate

I brought it up to watch liberals react. Like I said, jillian made it all worthwhile...

 

[Paulie]

Please stop trying to pretend to give me lectures on the law. It's kind of pathetic. You have no understanding and are just flailing. You've been told how it works.

Now stop embarrasing yourself, honey.

I've been told? By whom?

Not you, consequently. In fact, everyone who challenged it has now come to understand it exactly.

Obama had no executive authority until he took the oath. Perhaps he was still "president" by a technicality, perhaps he wasn't. But until he took that oath, he could not have legally made any executive decisions.

That you are a lawyer really means diddly squat here, considering you're having a lot of trouble reading the two parts in the constitution that have otherwise cleared the matter up.

Obama had no executive authority until he took the oath. Period. End of story. I'm still up for ideas on who assumed actual executive power during that time, if anyone.

As I see it, at a BARE MINIMUM, there was a powerless executive branch until someone took an oath, which the constitution clearly states as the requirement to perform executive duties.

But you still don't get it, do you? Admitting you're wrong would probably kill your ego. I understand