obama resists the urge to defect

[Baruch Menachem]

OK, fellows, on 20Jan16 you can celebrate President Obama leaving office.

I think you meant Jan 20 2017.

I would be happy with Jan 20 2013, but any date he leaves office is good.

 

[JoeB131]

Nonsense. The Mormon Church embraced black people and removed all restrictions regarding all minority groups in 1978 and it now denounces all forms of racism. Working from memory here, but I know there are now black bishops in the LDS priesthood and something over a half million black people among its membership.

The Mormon Church desegregated along with a lot of other churches during that particular period. Perhaps you are old enough to rmember also in the late 70's when then President Jimmy Carter went back to his home church in Georgia to try to mediate a church fight over whether to admit blacks. That was a Southern Baptist congregation. There is no Southern Baptist congregation anywhere now that does not welcome all minorities with open arms and the same can be said for the LDS.

And I don't recall any criticism of President Carter then or now for being a very active member of a racist church.

Again, the Baptist Church controversy was about congregations, not doctrine. BTW, Sunday Morning is still our most segregated hour in this country. White folks go to their churches, black folks go to theirs.

The problem Mormons have here is DOCTRINAL. Mormons believe that black folks were cursed with dark skin because Ham saw Noah naked and Native Americans/Hispanics were cursed by God because the Lamanites (their ancestors) killed the Nephites after Jesus said not to.

And, yes, once Romney gets the nomination, we will all be having long talks about this..

Do I think Mormons a little wierd and outside of mainstream Christianity? Yes I do. Do I think Romney's faith to be a problem for a President of the USA? No I don't. And I am also a student of the Founders who were adament that there be no religious test for anybody serving in the government.

The religious test doesn't mean, "Ignore the crazy shit this guy believes, because he calls it a religion, and we wouldn't want to offend anyone.

What Mormons believe is just insane. And if Romney really thinks that God wanted Joseph Smith to screw little girls, he doesn't belong in the White House.

Romney has not been and is not now my first choice to be President. But I have no doubt that he will do his damndest to do good and do no harm. I believe he loves his country and has a proven track record of problem solving and getting things done. And because he has so much money, he won't be in it for the money either. I see that as a plus.

I can't credit the current occupant of the White House with any of those virtues. Romney would be so far superior to a Barack Obama that it is no contest.

You know what, I don't think that. Romney has shown no compuction about totally screwing people over to make himself richer. Look up AmPad or DDi Medical some time. Not because he even needed the money, he was born rich.

I really do think Romney is a horrible human being. (and, no, not just because he's a Mormon, but those people believed some pretty effed up shit, which didn't help.) I think Obama's a basically decent guy who just doesn't have a clue, because he's never worked in the private sector.

By the way, as soon as I can compile a few more statistics, I will open a thread on the so-called 'vanishing middle class' in America. I hope you will participate in that discussion.

You can compile all the statistics you want.... the Middle class is vanishing, and people like Romney are largely the cause.

I just spent the week in Cleveland. Frankly, it left me more depressed about the future of this country than I was before I left.

 

[Unkotare]

Didn't vote for Obama in 2008.

As far as I'm concerned, once I found out Romney was a Mormon, taht discussion is over. I'll do whatever I have to keep the creepy ass LDS cult from taking over my country.

Even voting for Obama, the first time I've ever voted for a Democrat.

You lying sack of crap. You are a dyed in the wool lefty and everyone who has read your far left nonsense here knows it. Topping it off with vile bigotry certainly fits the leftist bill.

Whatever, Captain Tourettes...

Hey, you morons are the ones who keep voting against your own economic interests, on the hope you'll get to do the pissing some day while you are being pissed on.

Now that you've admitted you are a far left extremist, stop with this "but as a Republican, I say..." bullshit, you dishonest, dim-witted bigot.

 

[Unkotare]

There simply aren't enough angry White People to vote Obama out. And a lot of them hate Mormons as much as they hate blacks.

Trying to play the race card already, bigot?

Well, I call it the "Demographic Card".

That's because you are a dishonest piece of shit in addition to being a vile bigot.

 

[JoeB131]

You lying sack of crap. You are a dyed in the wool lefty and everyone who has read your far left nonsense here knows it. Topping it off with vile bigotry certainly fits the leftist bill.

Whatever, Captain Tourettes...

Hey, you morons are the ones who keep voting against your own economic interests, on the hope you'll get to do the pissing some day while you are being pissed on.

Now that you've admitted you are a far left extremist, stop with this "but as a Republican, I say..." bullshit, you dishonest, dim-witted bigot.

Because you've lost your way, don't lay that off on me, man.

Republicans USED to get this. They used to be on the side of the working man. I'm sure they didn't cover Teddy Roosevelt during your Home Skule sessions, though.

 

[JoeB131]

Trying to play the race card already, bigot?

Well, I call it the "Demographic Card".

That's because you are a dishonest piece of shit in addition to being a vile bigot.

Wow, the profanity makes your arguments so compelling.

It's a complete substitution for facts, reason and theory, man. You keep going with that.

 

[Greenbeard]

Because you've lost your way, don't lay that off on me, man.

Republicans USED to get this. They used to be on the side of the working man. I'm sure they didn't cover Teddy Roosevelt during your Home Skule sessions, though.

Not sure I agree with the premise. You can point to a handful of great Republicans who undoubtedly were a friend to the working man. But the problem is, those examples are anomalies and more than a few of them (e.g. TR, Fightin Bob LaFollette) left the Republican Party for that very reason.

The strength of the New Deal coalition is what kept Republicans in check on that front in the mid-20th century.

 

[JoeB131]

Because you've lost your way, don't lay that off on me, man.

Republicans USED to get this. They used to be on the side of the working man. I'm sure they didn't cover Teddy Roosevelt during your Home Skule sessions, though.

Not sure I agree with the premise. You can point to a handful of great Republicans who undoubtedly were a friend to the working man. But the problem is, those examples are anomalies and more than a few of them (e.g. TR, Fightin Bob LaFollette) left the Republican Party for that very reason.

The strength of the New Deal coalition is what kept Republicans in check on that front in the mid-20th century.

Well, I have to disagree with that. I think that Eisenhower got it. I think Nixon got it, I think Ford got it.

They'll never forgive him for the PATCO thing, but Reagan was a Union president (the SGA) and fought for workers rights in his own right. And he had good relations with some unions before they went all in with the Democrats.

I do fault the GOP for being on the wrong side, but the Unions deserve some of the blame, too. They went all in with the Democrats, which mean the Democrats just see them as an ATM, and the GOP see them as an ATM to be destroyed.

What big gains have the Unions made under either Obama or Clinton? Union membership declined under both...

 

[SFC Ollie]

[

You really haven't read much have you?

And you haven't a clue as to the parties either.....

Keep drinking that kool-aide.........

Olly, I got you pegged a long time ago... you're a big fake phony blowhard...

Oh please, do tell us how I am a fake and a phony, (while you pretend to be a conservative).....

 

[Foxfyre]

Actually most of the Republicans I know run or work for small business, mostly but not all non-union shops, and are squarely in the middle class and almost all qualify for what I assume is the 'common man,' whatever that is.

Most of the Democrats I know work for big business or the public sector/government.

Most of the CEO's of America's largest corporations were some of Barack Obama's biggest donors. Certainly the unions are squarely in the Democrats hip pocket to ensure that no legislation is passed that the union bosses don't want.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives have no objection to union shops. They do have an objection to unions who, without consent of the workers, uses its dues to favor a political candidate. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why that is a bad idea.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, have no objections to unions fighting for better wages, benefits, and/or working conditions for their members. They do have an objection to unions who do not let management organize workers, duties, and job descriptions to be best advantage of the business. And if a company or entity or government gets, even encourages a union like that, conservatives have a real problem with the people's money being used to bail out those companies, entities, or governments when they get into trouble.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, have no problem with public sector unions who work with management to agree on pay scales, benefits, and to settle grievances. They do have a strong objection to a public sector union having the right to strike or otherwise hold hostage the people they are hired, appointed, or voted in to serve. And they have a huge objection to public pension funds promising benefits to workers until they die and thus create another unsustainable entitlement that will inevitably bankrupt the state on down the line.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, want unscrupulous professional politicians and bureaucrats to be prohibited from being able to get what they want now by putting future administrations on the hook to pay for it long after those who did it are well out of office and no longer likely to be blamed.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, do not expect government to create a utopia for the working man. They know the free market is the best way to achieve the best scenarios. But they do support enforcing anti-trust and RICO laws that keep politicians and big business accomplices from cheating their employees and/or stock holders and they do support fiscal integrity at all levels. That is best accomplished by making it illegal for politicians or bureaucrats to use the people's money to benefit anybody that does not benefit everybody. Including the 'hated rich' like Mitt Romney.

 

[Unkotare]

Whatever, Captain Tourettes...

Hey, you morons are the ones who keep voting against your own economic interests, on the hope you'll get to do the pissing some day while you are being pissed on.

Now that you've admitted you are a far left extremist, stop with this "but as a Republican, I say..." bullshit, you dishonest, dim-witted bigot.

Because you've lost your way, don't lay that off on me, man.

Republicans USED to get this. They used to be on the side of the working man. I'm sure they didn't cover Teddy Roosevelt during your Home Skule sessions, though.

Do you weep at your communal meetings, comrade?

 

[The T]

Actually most of the Republicans I know run or work for small business, mostly but not all non-union shops, and are squarely in the middle class and almost all qualify for what I assume is the 'common man,' whatever that is.

Most of the Democrats I know work for big business or the public sector/government.

Most of the CEO's of America's largest corporations were some of Barack Obama's biggest donors. Certainly the unions are squarely in the Democrats hip pocket to ensure that no legislation is passed that the union bosses don't want.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives have no objection to union shops. They do have an objection to unions who, without consent of the workers, uses its dues to favor a political candidate. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why that is a bad idea.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, have no objections to unions fighting for better wages, benefits, and/or working conditions for their members. They do have an objection to unions who do not let management organize workers, duties, and job descriptions to be best advantage of the business. And if a company or entity or government gets, even encourages a union like that, conservatives have a real problem with the people's money being used to bail out those companies, entities, or governments when they get into trouble.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, have no problem with public sector unions who work with management to agree on pay scales, benefits, and to settle grievances. They do have a strong objection to a public sector union having the right to strike or otherwise hold hostage the people they are hired, appointed, or voted in to serve. And they have a huge objection to public pension funds promising benefits to workers until they die and thus create another unsustainable entitlement that will inevitably bankrupt the state on down the line.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, want unscrupulous professional politicians and bureaucrats of being able to get what they want now by putting future administrations on the hook to pay for it long after those who did it are well out of office and no longer likely to be blamed.

Conservatives, even GOP conservatives, do not expect government to create a utopia for the working man. They know the free market is the best way to achieve the best scenarios. But they do support enforcing anti-trust and RICO laws that keep politicians and big business accomplices from cheating their employees and/or stock holders and they do support fiscal integrity at all levels. That is best accomplished by making it illegal for politicians or bureaucrats to use the people's money to benefit anybody that does not benefit everybody. Including the 'hated rich' like Mitt Romney.

The 'common man' can best be described as those of us exercising our liberty to work hard, persue our dreams, feed our families to the best of our ability without the encroachment on the imperial Statist government encroaching on behalf of the moocher class that quite haven't figured out the liberty thing yet...

 

[Unkotare]

Employee Rights Act

 

[The T]

Employee Rights Act

Statement for the record

It's a good argument.

 

[JoeB131]

Now that you've admitted you are a far left extremist, stop with this "but as a Republican, I say..." bullshit, you dishonest, dim-witted bigot.

Because you've lost your way, don't lay that off on me, man.

Republicans USED to get this. They used to be on the side of the working man. I'm sure they didn't cover Teddy Roosevelt during your Home Skule sessions, though.

Do you weep at your communal meetings, comrade?

Nope. Just shake my head that so many stupid people are in the GOP... It's like watching a slow motion replay of a bus going over a cliff....

The sad part about a bus full of Mormons going over a cliff? The empty seat.

Feel free to tell that one at Family Game Night....