Obama not Constitutionally eligible to be President

[roomy]

Seems you need to do some Research on what constitutes Natural Born.

Soil cannot affect Natural Born.

If 2 Citizens can have a Child Abroad, and it is Natural Born, then Soil can have nothing to do with Natural Born.

I like you because you are as daft as a brush

 

[Ravi]

I can see it now. The Republican governor of Alaska in jail for high treason.

 

[Againsheila]

Seems you need to do some Research on what constitutes Natural Born.

Soil cannot affect Natural Born.

If 2 Citizens can have a Child Abroad, and it is Natural Born, then Soil can have nothing to do with Natural Born.

And here we go again. Our rulers make their own rules and follow them however they please. Number one, Barack Sr was Kenyan, no American.

Number 2, my brother was born on an American Air Force base in Japan and voted and served in the Vietnam war. When he wanted to bring his wife home from Thailand, suddenly he was told he wasn't an American citizen. Didn't matter that my father was career Air Force and my mother was native born American, or that he was born on an AMERICAN Air force base in Japan, they just suddenly decided he wasn't an American citizen. He and I (i was born in England, same situation, different country) both went down to INS to become naturalized citizens. I have the paperwork. You should have seen the look on the clerks office when I applied for my passport and showed her my naturalized citizenship papers AND my birth certificate. It was priceless.

Now my brother probably could have fought the INS but it would have taken years and he didn't want to wait that long for his wife, I don't blame him.

The truth is that if our government states Obama is a native born citizen, it doesn't matter if he was born in Kenya or on the moon, our government makes those decisions and they have the power to enforce them.

I believe our government is nearly as corrupt as the Mexican government and do not understand why our citizens haven't revolted yet.

 

[Gaar]

I like you because you are as daft as a brush

Interesting...

You are unable to address the argument, so is it you feel the insult has somehow rebutted my argument?

Because it didn't.

 

[Abelian Sea]

Yes, that Law makes them a Citizen, even at Birth, but it does not change what Natural Born means...

And what does "natrual born" mean, when it comes to presidential eligibility?

Constitutional Topic: Citizenship

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you're going to be involved in government in the United States, citizenship is a must. To be a Senator or Representative, you must be a citizen of the United States. To be President, not only must you be a citizen, but you must also be natural-born. Aside from participation in government, citizenship is an honor bestowed upon people by the citizenry of the United States when a non-citizen passes the required tests and submits to an oath.

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

• Anyone born inside the United States *
• Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
• Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
• Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
• Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
• Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
• Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
• A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law - the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person." Not eveyone agrees that this section includes McCain - but absent a court ruling either way, we must presume citizenship.

No Laws can change Nature.

True, but Nature doesn't always have anything to do with Law, even if the laws use the term "natural."

Laws and court rulings can change the meaning of "natrual born citizen" in the context of Law - which is what matters here.

But hey, we'll see soon, won't we?

 

[roomy]

Interesting...

You are unable to address the argument, so is it you feel the insult has somehow rebutted my argument?

Because it didn't.

School taught you fuck all so I stand no chance.

 

[Gaar]

Ok, so you defined Citizen, so what?

When our Founding Fathers wanted to discuss Natural Born, they explicitly state it.

Why do you suppose they said 2 Citizens have a Natural Born Citizen Abroad, and didn't simply say it was a Citizen?

Because they wanted us to understand it took 2 Citizens to make a Natural Born Citizen, and all else are simply Citizens.

 

[Gaar]

School taught you fuck all so I stand no chance.

As long as you don't even make an attempt you don't...

So you must not feel yourself capable, or what?

 

[roomy]

As long as you don't even make an attempt you don't...

So you must not feel yourself capable, or what?

Can I take my rep back for your one acceptable normal post that I inadvertantly repped?

 

[Gaar]

Can I take my rep back for your one acceptable normal post that I inadvertantly repped?

Sure, have at it...

I see you are still unable though, rep or not.

Imagine that.

 

[roomy]

Sure, have at it...

I see you are still unable though, rep or not.

Imagine that.

Keep the rep, I was joking, infact I am going to rep you everyday for a week and if I forget remind me.

You are wrong about citizenship though, but hang onto that straw or you may drown.

 

[Gaar]

Keep the rep, I was joking, infact I am going to rep you everyday for a week and if I forget remind me.

You are wrong about citizenship though, but hang onto that straw or you may drown.

So tell me where I am wrong?

 

[roomy]

So tell me where I am wrong?

Tell me why you are right.

 

[Gaar]

Tell me why you are right.

I cited the pertinent information already.

In a Nutshell, they say 2 Citizens make a Natural Born Citizen, regardless of where in the World it is Born, so Soil can have nothing to do with Natural Born.

So it takes 2 Citizens to make a Natural Born Citizen, and Obama's Father was not a Citizen.

 

[Abelian Sea]

Ok, so you defined Citizen, so what?

When our Founding Fathers wanted to discuss Natural Born, they explicitly state it.

Why do you suppose they said 2 Citizens have a Natural Born Citizen Abroad, and didn't simply say it was a Citizen?

Because they wanted us to understand it only took 2 Citizens to make a Natural Born Citizen, and all else are simply Citizens.

So... what does it mean to be Natural Born Citizen?

The current legal precedent seems to be that it means being a citizen at birth.

As you can see from that list, you don't actually need both of your parents to be citizens for this to be the case. Whether or not this would have been the case at the end of the eighteenth century will not, I imagine, have much bearing on this present-day case.

 

[Gaar]

So... what does it mean to be Natural Born Citizen?

The current legal precedent seems to be that it means being a citizen at birth.

Show me where Legal precedent says that.

It doesn't, because they haven't had to Rule on it before.

You are simply saying that is what YOU believe it to mean.

But they haven't addressed Natural Born in the SCOTUS, before this, because they haven't had to...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And here we go again. Our rulers make their own rules and follow them however they please. Number one, Barack Sr was Kenyan, no American.

Number 2, my brother was born on an American Air Force base in Japan and voted and served in the Vietnam war. When he wanted to bring his wife home from Thailand, suddenly he was told he wasn't an American citizen. Didn't matter that my father was career Air Force and my mother was native born American, or that he was born on an AMERICAN Air force base in Japan, they just suddenly decided he wasn't an American citizen. He and I (i was born in England, same situation, different country) both went down to INS to become naturalized citizens. I have the paperwork. You should have seen the look on the clerks office when I applied for my passport and showed her my naturalized citizenship papers AND my birth certificate. It was priceless.

Now my brother probably could have fought the INS but it would have taken years and he didn't want to wait that long for his wife, I don't blame him.

The truth is that if our government states Obama is a native born citizen, it doesn't matter if he was born in Kenya or on the moon, our government makes those decisions and they have the power to enforce them.

I believe our government is nearly as corrupt as the Mexican government and do not understand why our citizens haven't revolted yet.

We already went over this you dumb shit, petition that, it is not correct nor legal, you are BOTH US citizens by birth. I have my son's certificate of A US Citizen born abroad to PROVE it. Wallow all you want in pity and do nothing, it suits you.

 

[jillian]

We already went over this you dumb shit, petition that, it is not correct nor legal, you are BOTH US citizens by birth. I have my son's certificate of A US Citizen born abroad to PROVE it. Wallow all you want in pity and do nothing, it suits you.

Is she still talking about this?

like talking to a post.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I cited the pertinent information already.

In a Nutshell, they say 2 Citizens make a Natural Born Citizen, regardless of where in the World it is Born, so Soil can have nothing to do with Natural Born.

So it takes 2 Citizens to make a Natural Born Citizen, and Obama's Father was not a Citizen.

It does NOT say that. Quote for us Directly from the Constitution where that is said. Go ahead, I will wait.

 

[Ravi]

Yes, Drool, I mean Gaaaarrrrrrrrr, post your constitutional proof.