Obama may kill $66 billion dollar jet fighter

At $191 million apiece, the F-22 is the most expensive fighter ever — and many defense officials, including Secretary Robert Gates, are ready to pull the plug on it.

For all its capabilities, critics argue the F-22 is too costly and irrelevant to the wars of today. They note that it hasn't flown a single mission in Iraq or Afghanistan. Yet, with plants or suppliers in 44 states, the program counts some of its biggest fans in Congress, which has consistently voted to support it. Taxpayers to date have bought 183 Raptors at a cost of $66 billion, including development.

Raptor in dogfight for its future - USATODAY.com


what if venezuela, cuba, or iran decide to invade us? how could we possibly defend ourselves against these formidable foes without this jet?:confused:

How about Russia or China you dumb shit? As for Iran they have some pretty good military hardware too. We may find a need to attack them if they develop a nuclear weapon. Russia sells her jets to just about anyone. So does China.
 
Well to be fair we do have some F-22's ...



And it seems like there is a reason behind this ...



We aren't giving up our air superiority, guys.

what if having that plane would have meant intercepting flight 11 or 175?

What if you wasted $66 billion dollars on a weapons system that Secretary Gates says is not needed?

Once again MORON he did not say that. What he said was he stupidly wants to refocus our ENTIRE military on insurgency and terrorist fighting. Remind me again how planning the next war on the last is a bad idea, but NOW it suddenly is a GOOD idea?
 
what if venezuela, cuba, or iran decide to invade us? how could we possibly defend ourselves against these formidable foes without this jet?:confused:
yeah, those F15s and F16s will fly forever

the raptor was desinged to fight the cold war soviet air force. A war that's never going to happen now.

We can build next generation fighters that don't cost 200 million apiece, that would be fully capable of dominating the iranians, the chinese or the cubans.

BULLSHIT. Russia is rearming and is as willing to throw its weight around now as any day it was the Soviet Union. Or perhaps you have forgotten Georgia and the assassination and attempted assassination in the Ukraine? The cutting of oil and gas to Europe? The fact Russia is threatening its old satellites with dire consequences if they aid us in any way?
 
Not that I'm a big proponent of military spending but building JETS is just as much stimulus spending as building roads.

Do we need this jet?

Haven't a clue.

How formitable is the Alqada airforce?
 
Not that I'm a big proponent of military spending but building JETS is just as much stimulus spending as building roads.

Do we need this jet?

Haven't a clue.

How formitable is the Alqada airforce?

yeah, those F15s and F16s will fly forever

the raptor was desinged to fight the cold war soviet air force. A war that's never going to happen now.

We can build next generation fighters that don't cost 200 million apiece, that would be fully capable of dominating the iranians, the chinese or the cubans.

BULLSHIT. Russia is rearming and is as willing to throw its weight around now as any day it was the Soviet Union. Or perhaps you have forgotten Georgia and the assassination and attempted assassination in the Ukraine? The cutting of oil and gas to Europe? The fact Russia is threatening its old satellites with dire consequences if they aid us in any way?


oh good lord, would you calm down cupcake?

were you the one that wanted to go to war with russian over georgia? Dude, the ex-georgian prime minister admited that georgia started that crap and provoked it.

Does russia act like a thug and push around little countries in its sphere of influence, countries with governments it doesn't agree with? Yes, russia has fancied itself a world power for 200 years and seeks to dominate its sphere of influence.

we do the same god damn thing. We try to dominate our sphere of influence by cutting off trade and bulling countries with don't agree with. Cuba, Allende in Chili, nicaragua, Noriega in panama. Does the fact that we bully cuba mean we are going to start a war with russian? fuck no. Does the fact that russian bullies georgia mean they want war with us? don't make me laugh francis. calm your ass down.

russia is a former shadow of the military might of the cold war soviet union. they don't have shit that can challenge us militarily. the raptor was designed for a cold war era when it was thought the soviets would be seeking air superiority with mass quantities of their next generation fighters. russia no longer has the capacity or resources to dominate us in the sky or on the ocean. their next generation nuclear subs sink to the bottom of the freaking ocean. remember that rusian sub?
 
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To me, Red Dawn, it would be one thing if this was some brand new idea but in this case the planning and production has been going on for decades. We ordered a 183 of them and so far 127 have been delivered. The rest will be complete by 2011, so we are almost there. We should honor our agreement.

Plus, those planes are pretty damn cool.
 
To me, Red Dawn, it would be one thing if this was some brand new idea but in this case the planning and production has been going on for decades. We ordered a 183 of them and so far 127 have been delivered. The rest will be complete by 2011, so we are almost there. We should honor our agreement.

Plus, those planes are pretty damn cool.


I'm just saying its a waste of money. I know what you're saying, but I don't care about honor when it comes to wasting money.

Cons don't want to spend one dime to deal with climate change, a threat for which there is ample real evidence. I don't get why they want to spend billions on unneccessary military hardware that was desinged to fight a threat that no longer exists.
 
Not that I'm a big proponent of military spending but building JETS is just as much stimulus spending as building roads.

Do we need this jet?

Haven't a clue.

How formitable is the Alqada airforce?

The US military is not solely for attacking Al Quada, the US army was made to fight wars against countries (like WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Gulf war, ... ), countries that have air forces, navies and ground armies.

You re right about the stimulus bill though, this should not be in it. It should be outside of it.
 
To me, Red Dawn, it would be one thing if this was some brand new idea but in this case the planning and production has been going on for decades. We ordered a 183 of them and so far 127 have been delivered. The rest will be complete by 2011, so we are almost there. We should honor our agreement.

Plus, those planes are pretty damn cool.


I'm just saying its a waste of money. I know what you're saying, but I don't care about honor when it comes to wasting money.

Cons don't want to spend one dime to deal with climate change, a threat for which there is ample real evidence. I don't get why they want to spend billions on unneccessary military hardware that was desinged to fight a threat that no longer exists.

That it was designed to fight the Cold War doesn't change it's necessity. Air dominance cannot not be underestimated or undervalued. We make it so other countries would prefer burying their planes than fly against us. That's an enormous advantage to have. You own the skies. I think maintaining that advantage should be a key component of our defense policy.
 
You have India's Sukhoi Su-30 MKI which is already on par with the F-16 and F/18 we have today.

And the Russians have already created the Su-47 which exceeds both planes in agility and speed.

What keeps this country the most dominant military force int he world is our air superiorty and you want to take that away by getting rid of the most advanced fighter in the world.

The reason they don't use these planes in Iraq and Afghan is because we already control the air up there and there is no need....these are air to air combat planes....their design is to blow up the enemy jets from 100 miles away b4 they are even seen.
 
We have approximately 130 F-22's...hardly a number that the US airforce is comfortable with...their inital order was around 800 of them, they have now cut back to about 500. Also most of that 66 billion went to development...the costs to build the planes we have active now is 17.8 billion for what we have in service. So 49 billion went to R&D

India's SU-30 and Russian Su-47 will exceed the F-15 and F-18 as superior jets since they both have thrust vectoring and great agility and speed....the only plane that would be its equal or slightly higher is the F-35 lightning. However that is a muti nation jet unlike the F-22 which as of now is strictly going to the United States.

However as expensive as this jet is you don't realize the USA is thinking about selling it to other countries with a hefty price tag...ie- Japan wants it, Australia, England, and obviously Israel.

Program needs to stay alive
 
The order (or funding for anyway) was cut back to 183 as early as 2006.

The Air Force now has funding for up to 183 F-22 aircraft, which will be distributed among seven squadrons. But General Lewis makes no secret of the fact the Air Force would like to see even more Raptors.

Today there are about 23 Air Force fighter squadrons, supported by more than 800 aircraft that are currently flying air-to-air, destruction of enemy air defenses, suppression of enemy air defenses and strategic attack missions. Those missions are performed by aircraft such as the F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon and F-117A Nighthawk. General Lewis said he believes about 381 F-22s could do those same missions.

"We think we can replace all of those, reduce our force structure and have more capability in the future with 10 squadrons of F-22s," he said. "When you look at the training, the combat-coded and the attrition reserve that you have for 40 years of having this airplane around, that's where we come up with 381. Right now we are happy to get our seven squadrons funded, but the requirement is greater than seven. We need 10 squadrons."

F-22 excels at establishing air dominance
 
Well...one good thing about building these jets is that at least they're being built in AMERICA.

IF the world's economy continues to plummet, I cannot believe that the world will become a more peaceful place.

As to whether this is the BEST INVESTMENT we could make?

Haven't a clue.
 
thanks for the correction Article...I was going off memory

Also what people fail to realize why we need this Jet is, that countries like Iran and China, venezuela, are buyings the new Su's and Mig's which are 100% FOR SALE by russian and indian goverments.

Granted their pilots aren't as well trained as American or Russian, the jets could do a lot o fdamage


we always need to be 2 steps ahead of the enemy
 
Not that I'm a big proponent of military spending but building JETS is just as much stimulus spending as building roads.

Do we need this jet?

Haven't a clue.

How formitable is the Alqada airforce?
thats a stupid fucking statement
Al Qaeda is not our only enemy
you are not thinking long term on this
 
Well...one good thing about building these jets is that at least they're being built in AMERICA.

IF the world's economy continues to plummet, I cannot believe that the world will become a more peaceful place.

As to whether this is the BEST INVESTMENT we could make?

Haven't a clue.
and btw, this has nothing to do with that STUPID PORKULUS bill
 
The plane is not needed vs terrorists.

But suppose as always happens we have to fight someone better equiped then terrorists?

We end up with dead pilots and lack of aircover.

Old saying applies here, 'pennywise & pound foolish.'
 

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