Obama: Jesus would support tax-the-rich policy

[logical4u]

No, you miss the point.

Jesus told the young man to sell his possessions and give them to the poor.

ie...the Buffett Rule plus the earned income tax credit....

Lying blasphemous asshole.

Giving one's possessions away is an act of volition...Having them taxed away is an act of aggression.

Even a agnostic can make that distinction.

Not according to Jesus.

The synoptic gospels state that hostile questioners tried to trap Jesus into taking an explicit and dangerous stand on whether Jews should or should not pay taxes to the Roman authorities. The accounts in Matthew and Mark say that the questioners were Pharisees and Herodians, while Luke says only that they were "spies" sent by "teachers of the law and the chief priests".

They anticipated that Jesus would oppose the tax, as their purpose was "to hand him over to the power and authority of the governor" (Luke 20:20). The governor was Pilate, and he was the man responsible for the collecting of taxes in Roman Judea. At first the questioners flattered Jesus by praising his integrity, impartiality, and devotion to truth. Then they asked him whether or not it is right for Jews to pay the taxes demanded by Caesar. In the Gospel of Mark (12:15) the additional, provocative question is asked, "Should we pay or shouldn't we?" Jesus first called them hypocrites, and then asked one of them to produce a Roman coin that would be suitable for paying Caesar's tax. One of them showed him a Roman coin, and he asked them whose name and inscription were on it. They answered, "Caesar's," and he responded

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's"

So, the Savior did not tell them to give all their wealth to Caesar?......

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Well, this is a new low. Not a fan of his policies at all. But as for a speaker (other than you know, the 8th grader evel of it all), he seemed well intended. Now he's just desperately pandering. Like a degenerate gambler, groveling at the feet of loan sharks. What a phony.

 

[Conservative]

Jesus didn't live in a Democracy. I don't think the Jesus I've read about would have a problem with the people choosing to put policies in place that would help the poor or the sick. He'd likely support them wholeheartedly.

Haven't the RWers been arguing that we are a "Christian Nation"? Don't they want to use their religion to make policies that would prohibit abortion and gay marriage? Why is it "okay" to legislate that part of your religion, but not the part that says you need to take care of "the least among us"?

Not policies that forced compliance. He was into free will. You choose Him, or not. You choose to do good, or not. He never forced anyone to do good, or to follow Him. It was always a choice.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Lying blasphemous asshole.

Giving one's possessions away is an act of volition...Having them taxed away is an act of aggression.

Even a agnostic can make that distinction.

Not according to Jesus.

The synoptic gospels state that hostile questioners tried to trap Jesus into taking an explicit and dangerous stand on whether Jews should or should not pay taxes to the Roman authorities. The accounts in Matthew and Mark say that the questioners were Pharisees and Herodians, while Luke says only that they were "spies" sent by "teachers of the law and the chief priests".

They anticipated that Jesus would oppose the tax, as their purpose was "to hand him over to the power and authority of the governor" (Luke 20:20). The governor was Pilate, and he was the man responsible for the collecting of taxes in Roman Judea. At first the questioners flattered Jesus by praising his integrity, impartiality, and devotion to truth. Then they asked him whether or not it is right for Jews to pay the taxes demanded by Caesar. In the Gospel of Mark (12:15) the additional, provocative question is asked, "Should we pay or shouldn't we?" Jesus first called them hypocrites, and then asked one of them to produce a Roman coin that would be suitable for paying Caesar's tax. One of them showed him a Roman coin, and he asked them whose name and inscription were on it. They answered, "Caesar's," and he responded

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's"

So, the Savior did not tell them to give all their wealth to Caesar?......

According to the OP, the religious scholar reminds us that those asking Jesus were tricking him. And whether or not he advocated giving a DICTATOR, the demanded taxation is completely irrelevant here. But, feel freee to desperately grovel for theft by force, instead of charity.

 

[Seawytch]

Jesus didn't live in a Democracy. I don't think the Jesus I've read about would have a problem with the people choosing to put policies in place that would help the poor or the sick. He'd likely support them wholeheartedly.

Haven't the RWers been arguing that we are a "Christian Nation"? Don't they want to use their religion to make policies that would prohibit abortion and gay marriage? Why is it "okay" to legislate that part of your religion, but not the part that says you need to take care of "the least among us"?

Why is it ok to use religion when you want to raise taxes but not when you want to stop abortions?
Why isn't the left attacking Obama for mixing religion and politics like they attack any republican that would do the same?

You do realize that he was speaking at a PRAYER BREAKFAST, right?

I'll ask again...why do conservative Christians think it is okay to legislate against abortion and gay marriage based on your religious beliefs, but to legislate caring for the poor and sick is a "no-no"?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Jesus didn't live in a Democracy. I don't think the Jesus I've read about would have a problem with the people choosing to put policies in place that would help the poor or the sick. He'd likely support them wholeheartedly.

Haven't the RWers been arguing that we are a "Christian Nation"? Don't they want to use their religion to make policies that would prohibit abortion and gay marriage? Why is it "okay" to legislate that part of your religion, but not the part that says you need to take care of "the least among us"?

Not policies that forced compliance. He was into free will. You choose Him, or not. You choose to do good, or not. He never forced anyone to do good, or to follow Him. It was always a choice.

These desperate "progressives" can not grasp this concept at all. To them, government by force is the answer to everything. Free will is a scarey thing to them.

 

[Seawytch]

Jesus didn't live in a Democracy. I don't think the Jesus I've read about would have a problem with the people choosing to put policies in place that would help the poor or the sick. He'd likely support them wholeheartedly.

Haven't the RWers been arguing that we are a "Christian Nation"? Don't they want to use their religion to make policies that would prohibit abortion and gay marriage? Why is it "okay" to legislate that part of your religion, but not the part that says you need to take care of "the least among us"?

Not policies that forced compliance. He was into free will. You choose Him, or not. You choose to do good, or not. He never forced anyone to do good, or to follow Him. It was always a choice.

When did we stop choosing our legislators?

 

[Jarhead]

Jesus didn't live in a Democracy. I don't think the Jesus I've read about would have a problem with the people choosing to put policies in place that would help the poor or the sick. He'd likely support them wholeheartedly.

Haven't the RWers been arguing that we are a "Christian Nation"? Don't they want to use their religion to make policies that would prohibit abortion and gay marriage? Why is it "okay" to legislate that part of your religion, but not the part that says you need to take care of "the least among us"?

Why is it ok to use religion when you want to raise taxes but not when you want to stop abortions?
Why isn't the left attacking Obama for mixing religion and politics like they attack any republican that would do the same?

You do realize that he was speaking at a PRAYER BREAKFAST, right?

I'll ask again...why do conservative Christians think it is okay to legislate against abortion and gay marriage based on your religious beliefs, but to legislate caring for the poor and sick is a "no-no"?

who is saying it is not OK to legislate to help the poor and the sick?
No one is saying the poor and the sick should not receive government assistance.
The debate is how much assisatnce is too much and who should be deemed as poor.

 

[logical4u]

When the top 1% doubles to quadruples their wealth while everyone else and the country fall apart, guess what?

When the wealthy get wealthier, and the standard of living for the poor is improved, you complain. When the wealthy are punished and the standard of living for the poor is dimminshed, you want the blood of the wealthy? How does that improve anything?
How can punishing achievers motivate or help those that are less (LESS) fortunate?

 

[Katzndogz]

Jesus never supported taxes at all. He threw the tax collectors out of the temple. What Jesus supported was voluntary charity. Taking by force what is not voluntarily given is the idea of street thugs.

We all knew that under it all, democrats were no better than a man in a mask in an alley with a gun.

 

[Jarhead]

Jesus is a flaming liberal, everyone knows that.








Obama: Jesus would back my tax-the-rich policy - Feb. 2, 2012

President Obama offered a new line of reasoning for hiking taxes on the rich on Thursday, saying at the National Prayer Breakfast that his policy proposals are shaped by his religious beliefs.

Obama said that as a person who has been "extraordinarily blessed," he is willing to give up some of the tax breaks he enjoys because doing so makes economic, and religious sense.

"For me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus's teaching that for unto whom much is given, much shall be required," Obama said, quoting the Gospel of Luke.

Obama wants to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire for the richest Americans, and he has embraced the idea that wealthy Americans should not be paying a lower effective tax rate than those in the middle or lower classes.

He has argued that those policies offer Americans a "fair shot" and increased equality, while implying that the policies favored by Republicans do not.

But the overt connection between religious beliefs and political policies is new.

"I know that far too many neighbors in our country have been hurt and treated unfairly over the last few years," Obama said. "And I believe in God's command to love thy neighbor as thyself. I know a version of that golden rule is found in every major religion and every set of beliefs."

An administration official speaking on background told CNN that Obama viewed the speech as chance to explain his personal faith practices and to show "his desire to step in the gap for those who are vulnerable."

So what does the Bible say about taxes?...

there is a difference between being "given" and "earning on ones own"

If anything, I read that line as meaning "if you get, then you should give"

That being said, Maybe the Jesus believed that the poor that receive assisatnce should give in return?

Seems a bit more in line if you ask me.

 

[Seawytch]

Why is it ok to use religion when you want to raise taxes but not when you want to stop abortions?
Why isn't the left attacking Obama for mixing religion and politics like they attack any republican that would do the same?

You do realize that he was speaking at a PRAYER BREAKFAST, right?

I'll ask again...why do conservative Christians think it is okay to legislate against abortion and gay marriage based on your religious beliefs, but to legislate caring for the poor and sick is a "no-no"?

who is saying it is not OK to legislate to help the poor and the sick?
No one is saying the poor and the sick should not receive government assistance.
The debate is how much assisatnce is too much and who should be deemed as poor.

Have you been reading ANY of the threads here?

 

[Conservative]

Obama understands Jesus well.

Jesus would support taxing the rich.

In the Gospel of Matthew, a rich young man asks Jesus what actions bring eternal life. First Jesus advises the man to obey the commandments. When the man responds that he already observes them, Jesus adds:

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

The Gospel of Luke has a similar episode and states that:

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

This is how I understand that part: a rich man is going thru the motions of being "good". He really secretly "worships" his wealth. When he speaks to the Savior, the Savior sees into his heart and explains to him that he will have to shed his adoration of the false god, wealth. (The Savior gave many sermons and many parables, and in no other instance did He instruct the wealty to "give it all away") The rich man was very sad, because he could not reject his sin (like many of us that live in sinful ways), his love of money.

The second part (heard this from a radio teaching): A camel can carry over 1000 POUNDS! That is a lot of stuff (baggage, luggage, goods, garbage, etc). The "eye of a needle" was a gate in the city of Jerusalem that was open at night (the main gates were closed for protection). A camel could pass thru that gate, but only if it had no (that is NO) cargo. This is according to the Savior's teachings that you must be pure at heart to make it to heaven (no baggage, luggage, goods, garbage, etc).

I am sure you will disregard this because it goes against your agenda. The Savior wanted us to be responsible for ourselves (against Obama's agenda). He wanted us to do the best we could with what we had (the master giving 3 servants money..., the instruction not to put our lamps/light under a basket, etc). But if you are interested, you can read the Gospels and try to comprehend it both ways and see which one makes more sense.

excellent breakdown of that passage.

 

[Jarhead]

You do realize that he was speaking at a PRAYER BREAKFAST, right?

I'll ask again...why do conservative Christians think it is okay to legislate against abortion and gay marriage based on your religious beliefs, but to legislate caring for the poor and sick is a "no-no"?

who is saying it is not OK to legislate to help the poor and the sick?
No one is saying the poor and the sick should not receive government assistance.
The debate is how much assisatnce is too much and who should be deemed as poor.

Have you been reading ANY of the threads here?

I admit, no.

I saw your post and if I took it out of context, I apologize.

 

[logical4u]

In the Gospel of Matthew, a rich young man asks Jesus what actions bring eternal life. First Jesus advises the man to obey the commandments. When the man responds that he already observes them, Jesus adds:

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

The Gospel of Luke has a similar episode and states that:

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

You forgot the part about taxes.

Here ya go........

Matthew 22:15-22 we read:
Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

"Caesar's," they replied.

Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away. (NIV)

From the bolded passage is this saying that Jesus considers all money belongs to the government?

So the gov't makes money and keeps it for themselves????????
According to your statement, no person can have wealth in the "monetary" form? They should just lug around their property and trade chunks for other property?

 

[Conservative]

Jesus never supported taxes at all. He threw the tax collectors out of the temple. What Jesus supported was voluntary charity. Taking by force what is not voluntarily given is the idea of street thugs.

We all knew that under it all, democrats were no better than a man in a mask in an alley with a gun.

this

 

[Conservative]

Here ya go........

From the bolded passage is this saying that Jesus considers all money belongs to the government?

Do me a favor, take out a dollar bill and look at it, then tell me who's picture is on it. The way I see it those dollars belong to George Washington, not Obama.

Never try to outsmart a smart ass.

Either way they sure as hell don't belong to you.

well, since the money in your pocket, an bank accounts, doesn't belong to you (not your picture), and you are into helping the poor, I'm sure you'll be willing to send it all to me. I'm poor. No, I won't provide proof, because I was told by Democrats I don't need to prove things like that, or that I am eligible to vote, etc.

Let me know when the check is ready, and I'll PM the address to send the money.

 

[logical4u]

Jesus didn't live in a Democracy. I don't think the Jesus I've read about would have a problem with the people choosing to put policies in place that would help the poor or the sick. He'd likely support them wholeheartedly.

Haven't the RWers been arguing that we are a "Christian Nation"? Don't they want to use their religion to make policies that would prohibit abortion and gay marriage? Why is it "okay" to legislate that part of your religion, but not the part that says you need to take care of "the least among us"?

Prove to me that the majority is going to the "needy" and not the scammers.

 

[logical4u]

Jesus didn't live in a Democracy. I don't think the Jesus I've read about would have a problem with the people choosing to put policies in place that would help the poor or the sick. He'd likely support them wholeheartedly.

Haven't the RWers been arguing that we are a "Christian Nation"? Don't they want to use their religion to make policies that would prohibit abortion and gay marriage? Why is it "okay" to legislate that part of your religion, but not the part that says you need to take care of "the least among us"?

Why is it ok to use religion when you want to raise taxes but not when you want to stop abortions?
Why isn't the left attacking Obama for mixing religion and politics like they attack any republican that would do the same?

You do realize that he was speaking at a PRAYER BREAKFAST, right?

I'll ask again...why do conservative Christians think it is okay to legislate against abortion and gay marriage based on your religious beliefs, but to legislate caring for the poor and sick is a "no-no"?

"Christians" want the definition of marriage to remain as it has been understood for eons (that is thousands of years), not to be demeaned into an 'anything goes' relationship. (most Christians have no problem with a 'co-dependent' agreement that has similar gov't benefits). "Gay marriage" is a mockery of traditional marriage, that undermines the basic understanding that men and women are different (therefore 2 men as a couple or 2 women as a couple do NOT equal 1 man and 1 woman as a couple).
Funny, that you believe homosexual "rights" trump the rights of a person, not yet born....

Yet, the democrats are the ones that fought against gov't run institutions for the poor and sick (mostly because the bureacrats that ran them were easily corrupted), and have closed most of those that were in service. As a conservative, I am all for a "poor house" where people can go live if they need assistance (no questions asked, food and shelter provided with little privacy, and little incentive to stay for long lengths of time). I am against handing out money, housing supplements, and cell phones to anyone that can fill out an application.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama is the voice of God on earth. Disagree and you are a racist, unpatriotic and soon to be heretic as well.