Obama is a liberal - period!

[Gord]

Total right wing bullshit.

No, actually that kind of Marxist crap is total left wing bullshit.

 

[auditor0007]

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

Two people formulate a thesis, and you turn that thesis into fact, when all others have come to vastly different conclusions. It's a bit like the global warming theorists. They use computer models where they feed in the information they want, in the manner they want, so it will give them the answer they want. This doesn't make them necessarily wrong, but it still doesn't make it fact.

 

[auditor0007]

Once he is innaugerated and has a chance to accomplish some programs that aren't filibustered by the right, we can decide if he is a liberal or not.

If things go right, he will pull his liberalism out and try an unscrew this mess the neo conservatives put US in.

If this current economy and double wars are what we get from conservatives, then hot dam, let's definately get on the liberal band wagon.

Other than being hawkish on defense, the past eight years were not run by neo-cons. In fact, the Bush administration has been far from being conservative on anything that would have been considered fiscally prudent.

Obama will not govern much differently than Bush did. What very few people understand is that government can and does have an important role to play, and there are times that government programs are good for all of society. The free market can't just run itself. That being said, government must also not be allowed to hamper growth by injecting to much of itself into the private sector. The key is balance and using government where it is most effective and keeping it out where it is not.

Unfortunately, we haven't seemed to figure it out yet.

 

[Gord]

Two people formulate a thesis, and you turn that thesis into fact, when all others have come to vastly different conclusions. It's a bit like the global warming theorists. They use computer models where they feed in the information they want, in the manner they want, so it will give them the answer they want. This doesn't make them necessarily wrong, but it still doesn't make it fact.

This isn't just a thesis. It is the conclusion of a four year long study.

But who needs a study? Just look at the history. FDR did nothing to stop the Great Depression in seven years - it only ended when WWII started.

 

[auditor0007]

This isn't just a thesis. It is the conclusion of a four year long study.

But who needs a study? Just look at the history. FDR did nothing to stop the Great Depression in seven years - it only ended when WWII started.

And this is the only study ever done on the Depression? Come on, get serious.

 

[Lycurgus]

Lately there have been stories in the media suggesting that Barack Obama has turned toward the center with his administration appointments. This is pure drivel. Obama was not rated as the most extreme liberal in the senate for nothing. Why anyone would think he has suddenly gone centrist better give their head a shake. First of all Obama's administration appointments are mostly hard core liberals (with a couple of exceptions). And his platform for "change" has hardly been watered down.

To fix the economy he has openly stated he will follow one of the biggest liberals in history - FDR. It was FDR who took a recession and extended it seven years into the Great Depression that only ended with a world war. Here's what Obama proposes to do:

He wants to reintroduce tariffs and trade restrictions to protect union jobs, which will penalize export and import industries.

He wants introduce union Card Check so unions can bully ununionized workers into accepting a union.

He wants to greatly expand the minimum wage, elevating it to a "Living Wage", which will cause many low wage jobs to be lost and many small businesses to go out of business.

He also wants to mandate seven paid sick days per year from every employer.

Obama has promised to thoroughly screw up the energy and related industries by subsidizing "green initiatives" where not so green companies have to compete against government picked favorites. This will lead to even more company shutdowns.

Obama is going to penalize companies with a carbon cap and trade system that will drive energy prices into the stratosphere and cause energy producing and energy intensive industries to fold.

He is also promising to take over the health care industry, which will drive many companies out of business and provide greatly inferior healthcare.

And he also wants to raise capital gains taxes and investor class income taxes and payroll taxes, which will clearly reduce investment, resulting in fewer startups and IPOs and resulting in established companies being unwilling to expand, but instead contract and lay workers off or just plain go out of business.

And on top of all this he wants to massively expand government spending, pushing the deficit up into the trillions of dollars.

And to make matters even worse he proposes to give numerous tax credits to people who don't pay taxes - the classic case of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. This will be nothing more than a welfare disguised as tax reform.

These VERY liberal policies are a recipe for economic disaster on the scale of the Great Depression. But he is not done yet:

He also wants to hamstring the auto industry with a mandated increase of fuel economy standards by 4% a year.

He has claimed that he will so restrict fossil fuel electric generation as to make it economically impossible to open new coal-fired power plants while at the same time mandating electric car production that will put enormous strain on an electrical grid that is already maxed out.

He refuses to allow expanded domestic exploration for oil and natural gas, while at the same time making the pie-in-the-sky promise of eliminating oil imports from the Middle East while penalizing "dirty oil" from the Alberta oil sands (America's largest supplier of oil).

He is willing to give up Iraq without getting an agreement from them to pay recompense for their liberation.

He wants to increase Social Security taxes.

He wants the government to manage 401k plans.

He wants to expand and strengthen ACORN.

He has no plan for tightening the borders and favors amnesty.

He favors reducing federal criminal sentencing guidelines.

He also supports tighter gun restrictions.

He also wants to reduce military spending when clearly the military has been depleted over the last few years and needs more money.

He is willing to grant foreign terrorists the same rights as American citizens.

He is also willing to meet with foreign despots and legitimize them as equivalent to leaders of our allied countries.

And he wants to stifle conservative talk radio by reinstituting the fairness doctrine disguised as what he calls "localization".

===

Obama is an extreme leftist. These appointments mean nothing. He intends to transform America into his image of far left liberalism. Sheesh! Obama would have to break almost every promise he has ever given to reach the middle - it ain't gonna happen.

For two years I checked his web sites regularly. I read and reread the text from speeches, addresses and the debates. I listened closely each time he was on TV. I did the same with McCain and Hillary.

Out of what you have shared I cannot find one thing which is false in the sense that they are things which Obama actually stated. Maybe not in your exact words, obviously, but, in his words. Yes, in describing some of them you have added your own dressing to them, but, that does not change the core fact.

What I found interesting on some of these issues was this. In the closing weeks of the race, they went in and changed a fair amount of quoted information on Obama's web sites. It was a back peddle. However, others copied it and had it before that took place.

Sure you have added your own bias flare to this, but, in core beliefs, in core proposals which came from him or ideas, this is factual.

One thing I believe. Even though the above are his desires, reality will prevent some of it. Well, if not prevent it, seriously delay it.

Further, in some of the responses to you, some have chose to leave some facts out.

As for Bush, he is gone. Bush did not lead like a Republican and the Republican lawmakers have not led like Republicans. They blew it. They got so far away from those core beliefs, it was unbelievable. They have and are paying the price for that.

Though partisan, this is a very good post and it hits right on many valid points. Well done.

 

[Lycurgus]

Any one who ignores or will not admit the wrong, very wrong deeds of ACORN, is not worth debating with.

 

[Gord]

For two years I checked his web sites regularly. I read and reread the text from speeches, addresses and the debates. I listened closely each time he was on TV. I did the same with McCain and Hillary.

Out of what you have shared I cannot find one thing which is false in the sense that they are things which Obama actually stated. Maybe not in your exact words, obviously, but, in his words. Yes, in describing some of them you have added your own dressing to them, but, that does not change the core fact.

What I found interesting on some of these issues was this. In the closing weeks of the race, they went in and changed a fair amount of quoted information on Obama's web sites. It was a back peddle. However, others copied it and had it before that took place.

Sure you have added your own bias flare to this, but, in core beliefs, in core proposals which came from him or ideas, this is factual.

One thing I believe. Even though the above are his desires, reality will prevent some of it. Well, if not prevent it, seriously delay it.

Further, in some of the responses to you, some have chose to leave some facts out.

As for Bush, he is gone. Bush did not lead like a Republican and the Republican lawmakers have not led like Republicans. They blew it. They got so far away from those core beliefs, it was unbelievable. They have and are paying the price for that.

Though partisan, this is a very good post and it hits right on many valid points. Well done.

Thank you...

 

[Gord]

And this is the only study ever done on the Depression? Come on, get serious.

It matches history. What else do you need?

 

[sealybobo]

Marxism on display...

Whatever you want to call it.

Before I can even respond to you, I need to know what you do for a living. I'm 99% sure you are dumb, but maybe you are greedy.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Other than being hawkish on defense, the past eight years were not run by neo-cons. In fact, the Bush administration has been far from being conservative on anything that would have been considered fiscally prudent.

Obama will not govern much differently than Bush did. What very few people understand is that government can and does have an important role to play, and there are times that government programs are good for all of society. The free market can't just run itself. That being said, government must also not be allowed to hamper growth by injecting to much of itself into the private sector. The key is balance and using government where it is most effective and keeping it out where it is not.
Unfortunately, we haven't seemed to figure it out yet.

Bingo!

 

[frazzledgear]

First of all, I keep reading how FDR was the cause of the depression or how he turned a recession into a depression. The fact is that unemployment was over 23% before FDR took office. That is not a recesson; it is a depression. After instituting his policies, unemployment was reduced, although not by a great deal. Whether or not he extended the depression is only a hypothesis as you cannot prove that an alternative action would have had better results.

A recession or depression is not defined by unemployment rates but by the consecutive quarters of negative growth.

MANY economists have concluded that FDR's policies not only worsened the depression, but prolonged the depression for many years more -and came to that conclusion after intensive study of the individual and cumulative impact of his policies. FDR policies have been hyped for having saved this country from the Great Depression for so many decades now -yet no more true than the story about Washington chopping down the cherry tree.

FDR believed that excessive competition was to blame for the depression. He believed the depression continued because prices had fallen when in fact prices had fallen in response to the depression. He got cause and effect reversed. So his recovery package was a bunch of anti-competition and pro-labor laws in order to artificially boost prices and wages. Businesses in every industry were allowed to collude in price-fixing schemes without fear of anti-trust laws and the strengthened bargaining powers given to labor unions resulted in demands for salaries 25% above where they should have been given the market forces. An examination and analysis of what prices and wages should have been in that economy show FDR's policies artificially inflated both -which resulted in exactly what economists now know will occur in such event. In a typical moderately growing economy, unemployment shoots up and the economy promptly stalls out and will fall into recession. A recessionary economy will tank to a depression and a depression will deepen and just drag on and on and on until those artificial pressures are removed. FDR's policies drove masses into dire poverty.

Then FDR added to it with his decision to take the US off the gold standard -which served as a firm stopgap against inflation and government growth. He nationalized the monetary gold stock, banned the private ownership of gold and nullified all public and private contractual promises to pay in gold -both domestic and international. Other countries retaliated in response to FDR’s devaluation which only further strangled international trade and deepened the depression in those countries as well.

FDR's economic theories were just dead wrong -and the proof is the fact that never before or since has this country suffered a 15 year long depression -because never before or since has government intervened to the massive extent as it did then -and nearly every intervention the wrong one. We will never have a depression like that again unless some other President with a poor grasp on macroeconomics decides to inflict that wrongheaded crap on the country all over again.

This stuff is no big secret anymore and in-depth analysis and discussion regarding the true impact of his policies can be found in any number of books and articles by both historians and economists.

 

[Gord]

We will never have a depression like that again unless some other President with a poor grasp on macroeconomics decides to inflict that wrongheaded crap on the country all over again.

Sort of like Barack Obama...

 

[Gord]

Well is this a picture of things to come?

Barack Obama has stated that he will follow FDR with many of his policies and strategies. His first attempt was to provide weekly internet "fireside chats" for his Obamabots. But it looks like it is a bust:

Washington Times - EXCLUSIVE: Obama's Web presence loses its luster

"I've heard a lot of puffed-up rhetoric about how this is going to change the face of politics and how it's going to be FDR's fireside chats. The data doesn't back it up," said David Burch, marketing manager for TubeMogul, which tracks YouTube video views.

 

[Old Rocks]

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

My Grandfathers lived through the Depression and lost all they had in it. Both of them considered FDR the man that saved this nation from breaking up by creating a atmosphere of hope, when there was so little to be hopeful about. I find your rants concerning FDR to be a bit on the tiresome side. Even most Republicans credit him with keeping the nation on an even keel during some very hard times.

 

[Gord]

My Grandfathers lived through the Depression and lost all they had in it. Both of them considered FDR the man that saved this nation from breaking up by creating a atmosphere of hope, when there was so little to be hopeful about. I find your rants concerning FDR to be a bit on the tiresome side. Even most Republicans credit him with keeping the nation on an even keel during some very hard times.

Yup FDR, like Obama, was considered a great orator who could convince people the sky was green if need be. Kool Aid drinkers drink that stuff up. I guess your grandfathers' Kool Aid genes have been passed down to you...

 

[editec]

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom

Then UCLA economists are freaking morons.

I keep reading how FDR prolonged the depression, too, but only from partisans

FDR dropped unemplyment 8 points in two years. from 25% to 17%

Then he started listening to Austrian economists (ignoring his kynesians) and started to balance the budget

Unemployment, naturally went back up why?

BECAUSE THEY WERE HAVING A ILLIQUIDITY CRISES, OF COURSE.

Pretty much where we're at right now, I might add.

The reason the war ended the depression why?

BECAUSE THEY STARTED SPENDING MONEY, THAT'S WHY.

Honestly, some of you people are so poisoned with misinformation and economic blather it's amazing.

You guys have HAD th eRandian vision the last 8 years and looks what has happened to this economy.

Wake up!

 

[Gord]

Then UCLA economists are freaking morons.

I keep reading how FDR prolonged the depression, too, but only from partisans

FDR dropped unemplyment 8 points in two years. from 25% to 17%

Then he started listening to Austrian economists (ignoring his kynesians) and started to balance the budget

Unemployment, naturally went back up why?

BECAUSE THEY WERE HAVING A ILLIQUIDITY CRISES, OF COURSE.

Pretty much where we're at right now, I might add.

The reason the war ended the depression why?

BECAUSE THEY STARTED SPENDING MONEY, THAT'S WHY.

Honestly, some of you people are so poisoned with misinformation and economic blather it's amazing.

You guys have HAD th eRandian vision the last 8 years and looks what has happened to this economy.

Wake up!

FDR was just like Obama is now. He was an extreme liberal whose policies failed abysmally - that's the history. And no matter how much you whine and stamp your little feet, it ain't gonna change.

Face it - FDR was a complete failure.

 

[driveby]

Lately there have been stories in the media suggesting that Barack Obama has turned toward the center with his administration appointments. This is pure drivel. Obama was not rated as the most extreme liberal in the senate for nothing. Why anyone would think he has suddenly gone centrist better give their head a shake. First of all Obama's administration appointments are mostly hard core liberals (with a couple of exceptions). And his platform for "change" has hardly been watered down.

To fix the economy he has openly stated he will follow one of the biggest liberals in history - FDR. It was FDR who took a recession and extended it seven years into the Great Depression that only ended with a world war. Here's what Obama proposes to do:

He wants to reintroduce tariffs and trade restrictions to protect union jobs, which will penalize export and import industries.

He wants introduce union Card Check so unions can bully ununionized workers into accepting a union.

He wants to greatly expand the minimum wage, elevating it to a "Living Wage", which will cause many low wage jobs to be lost and many small businesses to go out of business.

He also wants to mandate seven paid sick days per year from every employer.

Obama has promised to thoroughly screw up the energy and related industries by subsidizing "green initiatives" where not so green companies have to compete against government picked favorites. This will lead to even more company shutdowns.

Obama is going to penalize companies with a carbon cap and trade system that will drive energy prices into the stratosphere and cause energy producing and energy intensive industries to fold.

He is also promising to take over the health care industry, which will drive many companies out of business and provide greatly inferior healthcare.

And he also wants to raise capital gains taxes and investor class income taxes and payroll taxes, which will clearly reduce investment, resulting in fewer startups and IPOs and resulting in established companies being unwilling to expand, but instead contract and lay workers off or just plain go out of business.

And on top of all this he wants to massively expand government spending, pushing the deficit up into the trillions of dollars.

And to make matters even worse he proposes to give numerous tax credits to people who don't pay taxes - the classic case of taking from the rich and giving to the poor. This will be nothing more than a welfare disguised as tax reform.

These VERY liberal policies are a recipe for economic disaster on the scale of the Great Depression. But he is not done yet:

He also wants to hamstring the auto industry with a mandated increase of fuel economy standards by 4% a year.

He has claimed that he will so restrict fossil fuel electric generation as to make it economically impossible to open new coal-fired power plants while at the same time mandating electric car production that will put enormous strain on an electrical grid that is already maxed out.

He refuses to allow expanded domestic exploration for oil and natural gas, while at the same time making the pie-in-the-sky promise of eliminating oil imports from the Middle East while penalizing "dirty oil" from the Alberta oil sands (America's largest supplier of oil).

He is willing to give up Iraq without getting an agreement from them to pay recompense for their liberation.

He wants to increase Social Security taxes.

He wants the government to manage 401k plans.

He wants to expand and strengthen ACORN.

He has no plan for tightening the borders and favors amnesty.

He favors reducing federal criminal sentencing guidelines.

He also supports tighter gun restrictions.

He also wants to reduce military spending when clearly the military has been depleted over the last few years and needs more money.

He is willing to grant foreign terrorists the same rights as American citizens.

He is also willing to meet with foreign despots and legitimize them as equivalent to leaders of our allied countries.

And he wants to stifle conservative talk radio by reinstituting the fairness doctrine disguised as what he calls "localization".

===

Obama is an extreme leftist. These appointments mean nothing. He intends to transform America into his image of far left liberalism. Sheesh! Obama would have to break almost every promise he has ever given to reach the middle - it ain't gonna happen.

Strong, i'd rep ya again if i could.......

 

[Gord]

Strong, i'd rep ya again if i could.......

Thank you...