CDZ Obama, Hillary, Trump, Fake News, Mueller, The Swamp.....

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Mac1958, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. candycorn
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    candycorn Alis volat propriis

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    So the “swamp”, if I understand your post correctly, isn’t people, it’s the actions of the people who are in positions of power and influence? Additionally, according to you, the swamp is the people on the ballot next to the President who says he is going to “drain” it?
    Sound pretty moronic.

    As for the Deep State…you’re right; it’s a conspiracy theory.
     
  2. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    You partially understand. What you apparently missed is the INFLUENCE and MONEY. Let me give you an example:

    In the town where I live there has been a culture of discrimination. Not based on race, religion or other protected status. It is based on where you are from. If you are not "from here" your business will not thrive, and you will find it difficult to gain acceptance. That's the influence part. to put it another way, if those in power do not like you, or what you stand for (your not from here) they will take measures to make your life/business difficult. It happens at all levels, and as my example shows, not just in government, though that is where it is most easily identified and corrected.

    As for the money aspect. When was the last time you saw an "Average Joe" run for, and get elected to an important/influential office? It is rare. There are of course two primary reasons for this:
    1. Lack of desire. Whether it be because other things are more important, or because of political apathy.
    2. Lack of resources. Let's face it wealthy people tend to associate with other wealthy people. Elections are expensive and if you do not have ready access to large sums, and do not have the connections to raise funds through donations, you face a steep uphill battle just to let the people know you are running.
    As for "the deep state", no it is not a conspiracy theory. It is quite real. However, it is not interested in current events, or short term politics, and yet it is. It is the people who influence the advisors. One could argue that we are ALL part of the "deep state", and none of us are at the same time. Even God, and Satan (or whatever names you give to good and evil) are a part of it. Our very conscience is a part, even people who are long dead are. And yet, no one is, because it is a concept, much like space. It is everywhere, and nowhere. It is a place, but has no physical attributes. It is nearly impossible to fully comprehend and yet is simple to understand. It is a bit of a paradox I suppose, because it is, without being.

    I know, pretty deep philosophical double talk, but it's the best I can do.
     
  3. candycorn
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    candycorn Alis volat propriis

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    As for the influence, okay….if you say so. It sounds as though the businesses that are getting “measures” taken against them could have a case with the State Attorney General or County Sheriff. I don’t know what you mean by “measures”…can you give some examples using names of businesses and what happened to them so I can do some research?

    As for the money…when was the last time you saw an “average joe” defend himself in court, do his own surgery, start his own 401k (which you can do by the way), etc….? Politics is a profession just like anything else. In my opinion, it is best left to the professionals. Do with that what you will. But I can guarantee that the other nations are not sending “average joes” or the average “Sven”, “Juan”, “Ivan”, “Mohammed”, or “Pierre” to the negotiating table when they bargain with emerging markets, the UN, World Bank, ITO, etc. From the looks of things, we have Nikki Haley who seems to be totally clueless at her position and totally vapid at what the role of UN Ambassador is. You want your plumber to get elected and start negotiating arms treaties? I don’t. I’ll take a State Department expert over my plumber every day of the week.

    Yes, the “deep state” is conspiracy theory. It is a tool that is made up to act as a fall guy when you can’t achieve your goals. If one is the parent of a kid and they bring up some cockamamie nebulous entity that kept them from doing their chores, passing their class, or not finishing their broccoli, the parent would demand something a bit more tangible than “they” kept me from doing it. That Trump (he is the latest) puts this crap out there and some people accept it says much more about his supporters than it does about him; he’s been chiseling people for decades…those that accept it are the real dopes.
     
  4. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    I must politely decline. Two reasons for this: 1)It's irrelevant to the point I am expressing. 2)I would disclose my location, something I guard jealously. I would much prefer that no one knows where to find me. I am a private person, for reasons I choose not to discuss.
    On this we shall have to agree to disagree. I happened to believe in a government "of the people, by the people." By definition, that is your "average joe".

    Apparently I was unclear. I agree, elected officials should not be "negotiating arms treaties". THAT IS best left to professionals. I do, however, want 535 "average joes" debating, and deciding if the proposed treaties are a good move for our country, after being properly informed, and considering their respective constituencies' wishes, of course.
    Sadly, that is how it is being used by Trump.

    Agreed. Remember just a few years ago when the Obama administration was saying they were unable to accomplish this or that because of "obstructionist republicans, or GWB? Same thing, different name.
     
  5. candycorn
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    candycorn Alis volat propriis

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    It is directly relevant to the point you’re expressing. You say “something happened” to outsiders and that is what you think happens on main street USA? Gee, how did Wal Mart make it when there was Monty Ward, Sears, JC Penny, etc… all established “big boys”? They built a better mouse trap. How did Amazon.com supplant Wal Mart? They built a better mouse trap. How did Google destroy Yahoo? They’re better. The US Auto industry was creamed by the imports…how did that happen? They built a better car and sold it for less.



    Okay. Just know the other nations of the planet are not so concerned about running government day camp where everyone gets to play.

    Not to paint with too broad a brush but those “average joes” are likely to believe that someone like Ethan Hawk exists and think Olivia Pope will show up with something incriminating to sway the vote at the last second.

    No. Obstructionists Republicans do exist in Congress; as do Obstructionist Democrats in Congress. It is how the game is played given our system. There is no mysterious entity wielding power from the darkened corners.
     
  6. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    You are speaking of two very different types of business, on two very different scales. Yes, they all started relatively small, then grew quite large. However, comparing a local plumber to Walmart, is asinine.
    You really do have quite a low opinion of the American people don't you? It does explain why you believe that only trained professionals should make all the important decisions. You fail to understand that many, by no means all, average Americans are really quite capable of understanding, and distinguishing the difference between reality and fiction.
    You have done a far better job of describing the Washington "Swamp" than I have. And yet, you claim to not know what it is. The fact is, you just call it something different.

    See, we are really not all that dissimilar after all. We just look at things differently, and make different conclusions. Ain't American great? We can disagree, discuss, and come to the realization that we actually agree to a great extent. The only real difference I see is in perspective. And faith in the American people.
     
  7. candycorn
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    candycorn Alis volat propriis

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    Well, you won’t give details. I did give examples on how the NKOB did beat the long established and well endowed at their own game.
    The macro vs. micro argument, in this situation is silly.

    No.

    Okay, next time you need to have a procedure done or sell your house, don’t go to the doctor or have a real estate agent/realtor handle the sale. See how well you do compared to others. Politics is a profession. Sorry, but it is. Thinking a plumber or florist or seamstress can (or should) try to understand the intricacies of multi-national treaties is, well, stupid.

    I’m sure there are a great many who do. Again, I didn’t want to paint with too broad a brush and the examples given were just the latest pop culture references I could come up with.

    The “average joe” has zero idea of the range of a SLBM for example…how long subs can remain at sea, what parts of the government stay open during a government shutdown, etc. You hear it all the time that many Americans can’t find Iran on a map or something similarly outrageous. Would these people get elected? Well, they are the average people….You want the “average joe” to be spending our tax monies….and they likely couldn’t tell you about the importance of potential hotspots like Gaza, Golan Heights, Siani Peninsula, Chechnia (sp?)….

    What would that be? We have obstructionist politicians?
    That is what the swamp consists of now? Again, this amorphous body is just a figment of the imagination.

    Never thought we were dissimilar….
    I prefer to have a professional at the helm of the ship of state. It has proven over time to be an exceedingly intelligent thing to do. Look at this military parade fiasco for example….
     
  8. candycorn
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    candycorn Alis volat propriis

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    I know this is edited for effect but here is evidence of the “average joes” at work:



    I prefer people who know where our enemies are…also people who know who our enemies are; unlike the blob
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. AveryJarhman
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    AveryJarhman Gold Member

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    [​IMG]

    #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions

    Hello, Joe B. I voted for Donald Trump.

    Would you prefer I voted for Mrs. Hillary Clinton, a predatory, pandering politician who once callously characterized as "Super Predators" a significant population of 'Childhood Trauma (#ACEs) victims who THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, experienced America's potentially life scarring SYSTEMIC & GENERATIONAL Culture of Black or African American Child Abuse, Emotional Neglect and Maltreatment that evolved from America's multi-generational, ignorant, once legal Culture of Racism!

    I am referring to a Culture of Child Abuse, Emotional Neglect, Abandonment and Maltreatment responsible for popular American urban story-TRUTH-tellers and 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victims the late Tupac Shakur (born 1971) and Mr. Barack "My Brother's Keeper" Obama White House guest and friend Kendrick Lamar (born 1987) vividly describing in their American art and interviews the "T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E." and "Good Kid, m.A.A.d. City" Child Abuse Cultures prevalent in far too many American communities.

    I am referring to a Culture of Systemic and Generational CHILD ABUSE that THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, deprived Tupac and Kendrick, their childhood friends, as well as many of their elementary and JHS classmates from experiencing a SAFE, fairly or wonderfully happy American kid childhood.

    [​IMG]

    Sadly, the traumatic, potentially life-scarring Criminal Child Abuse and Emotional Abandonment each of these men speaks about experiencing during a critical period of human/childhood development, resulted with them maturing into emotionally ill adults revealing in public they’ve been experiencing acute depression as well as Suic*dal Thoughts for most of their lives.

    Joe B., the same Culture of African American Child Abuse, Neglect and Maltreatment that for more than 30 years has been inspiring significant numbers of popular urban story-TRUTH-tellers to compose and promote American music art HATEFULLY informing our world that American girls, women and MOTHERS of African descent should be viewed as less than human *itches, *hores, 'hoes' or "THOTS" unworthy of being treated with basic human respect. (THOT = "That Hoe Over There")

    Unfortunately, it's plainly evident Kendrick, Tupac as well as untold numbers of American children are being raised, nurtured and socialized by moms experiencing some type of illness preventing and impeding them from embracing and following their innate, natural maternal instinct to protect their child or children from harm.

    Joe B., perhaps I'm wrong but *something* is preventing significant numbers of black or American moms of African descent from recognizing that placing ABOVE ALL ELSE the emotional well being of our Nation's most precious and cherished assets, will most likely result with a fairly or wonderfully happy child maturing into a reasonably responsible teen and adult citizen caring about their own well being (*May 18, 2015 - Rise in Suic!de by Black Children Surprises Researchers - The New York Times*), as well as embracing compassion, empathy and respect for their peaceful or less fortunate neighbors.

    [​IMG]

    Recently 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor Oprah Winfrey shared Medical Research bolstering the late popular American urban story-TRUTH-teller and 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim Tupac Shakur's (often misinterpreted) #T_H_U_G_L_I_F_E Child Abuse, Emotional Neglect, Abandonment and Maltreatment *AWARENESS-PREVENTION* concept!

    "The Hate U Give Little Infants Fvvks *EVERYONE"* ~Tupac Shakur

    “We need more people who care; you know what I’m saying? We need more women, mothers, fathers, we need more of that…” ~Tupac Shakur

    Unfortunately, before he gained the confidence to properly promote his #T_H_U_G_L_I_F_E Child Abuse *AWARENESS-PREVENTION* concept, Tupac was brutally murdered by OTHER emotionally or mentally ill victims of America's Culture of African American Child Abuse, Neglect and Emotional Maltreatment evolving from America's multi-generational, ignorant, once legal Culture of Racism.

    However, it is not too late to join Tupac, Oprah and Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, MD, pediatrician & CEO of 'The Center For Youth Wellness', in passionately calling for a National MOVEMENT educating American & foreign born primary child caregivers about a potentially life scarring medical disease/condition:

    "Childhood Trauma" aka
    "Adverse Childhood Experiences" (#ACEs)

    [​IMG]

    ___
    During a March 11, 2018 '60 Minutes' segment titled, "Treating Trauma," Oprah Winfrey, a 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor, shared knowledge regarding America's easily PREVENTABLE, though potentially life scarring *CHILD CARE* PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS.

    Knowledge Oprah exuberantly declares is a "game changer."

    YouTube search terms: "Oprah Winfrey, Fixing The 'Hole In Your Soul'"



    Peace.
    ___
    American *(Children's)* Lives Matter; Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our National Epidemic of Child Abuse and Neglect*; End Community Violence, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations
     
  10. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    Multinational treaties, sorry to inform you, are NOT WRITTEN BY POLITICIANS. They are written, largely, by PROFESSIONALS, at the State Department. When we elect our representatives, we are not electing someone to be an expert on all things they need to make decisions on. We are electing them to LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS and make an informed decision on our behalf. The fact that you seem to think that an elected official needs to be an expert on anything other than listening to experts and making a decision based on that, is part of the problem here. The sheer amount of study that it takes to become an expert on any given subject necessitates that one knows little, if anything on other subjects. Therefore, I would much rather have a person who knows little, and surrounds themselves with experts, than someone who THINKS they know things, and refuses to LISTEN.
    Do you think any of those in congress know those things? I doubt it. I am reminded of something Henry Ford once said, “If I should really WANT to answer the foolish question you have just asked, or any of the other questions you have been asking me, let me remind you that I have a row of electric push-buttons on my desk, and by pushing the right button, I can summon to my aid men who can answer ANY question I desire concerning the business to which I am devoting most of my efforts. Now, will you kindly tell me, WHY I should clutter up my mind with general knowledge, for the purpose of being able to answer questions, when I have men around me who can supply any knowledge I require?”
    Not a stupid man, nor an uneducated man. He knew his business and knew it well, when he needed expertise, he pushed a button and got it. Why should our politicians be any different?

    If you think it best to have politicians who are experts in foreign policy, tell me, how well will they know economics, constitutionality of policy, environmental issues, military concerns, etc.? The FACT is every politician, to be properly informed, must surround themselves with people who are experts on the various topics they will deal with. So, the question becomes, would you rather have someone who is an expert in one topic, and knows next to nothing about everything else, or someone who has a firm grasp of the basics of a wide range of topics and defers to experts as needed?
     

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