Obama has abandoned his Wind Energy bullshit plan, why?

[SSDD]

Oh please.
The fines for spills aren't just for the dead birds.
But I know that you know that.

Like most warmists, what you believe you know doesn't jibe so well with reality.

Wichita oil company to pay fine for bird deaths | Wichita Eagle

Exxon Fined for Causing Bird Deaths - NYTimes.com

Oil companies charged for killing birds | Tulsa World

https://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/stories/101122.html

Dead mockingbirds lead to $10K fine for drilling company | Southeast Texas Record

Texas oil company to plead guilty in ND duck death | Deseret News

Need I go on? The list could continue for pages.

 

[idb]

Oh please.
The fines for spills aren't just for the dead birds.
But I know that you know that.

Like most warmists, what you believe you know doesn't jibe so well with reality.

Wichita oil company to pay fine for bird deaths | Wichita Eagle

Exxon Fined for Causing Bird Deaths - NYTimes.com

Oil companies charged for killing birds | Tulsa World

https://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/stories/101122.html

Dead mockingbirds lead to $10K fine for drilling company | Southeast Texas Record

Texas oil company to plead guilty in ND duck death | Deseret News

Need I go on? The list could continue for pages.

Why do you call me a 'warmist'?

Read what I said.
There may be fines for dead birds, but not just for dead birds.
Talk to the shrimp farmers or the tourist operators in the Gulf.

 

[4Horsemen]

Well I am not saying that wind will be the primary energy source I was simply saying that it wasn't bullshit as that guy was saying. Also i agree that there are lobbyists for wind energy in Washington and that big money drives a lot of those contracts, but if I had to choose a between an oil lobbyist and a wind lobbyist then i would choose the wind lobbyist.

And if you do you will spend the majority of your time in the dark. Wind is a non starter. It's good for grinding wheat and pumping water for troughs. That's about it.

It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.

If you can't run a Train, 18-wheeler, Cargo ship or Earth mover on it, what's the use?

We are past the age of wind energy. It manifested in the days of the Slave trade when shipbuilders made their haul off building great big huge vessels that could sail the 7 seas even with heavy amounts of supplies, animals, and slaves.

The Pirate loved wind energy and made a killing(literally) off of it. . but since the manority of humanity is settled on land these days and not on water, the new resource we chose was oil, natural gas and coal. and it was the best move humanity ever made.

What you use and take for granted today, is being run by either oil, natural gas or coal.

We can't stop now. or return to the lifestyles of goat herders and bandits on horseback.

People need to see the forest, not just a couple trees.

 

[idb]

And if you do you will spend the majority of your time in the dark. Wind is a non starter. It's good for grinding wheat and pumping water for troughs. That's about it.

It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.

If you can't run a Train, 18-wheeler, Cargo ship or Earth mover on it, what's the use?

We are past the age of wind energy. It manifested in the days of the Slave trade when shipbuilders made their haul off building great big huge vessels that could sail the 7 seas even with heavy amounts of supplies, animals, and slaves.

The Pirate loved wind energy and made a killing(literally) off of it. . but since the manority of humanity is settled on land these days and not on water, the new resource we chose was oil, natural gas and coal. and it was the best move humanity ever made.

What you use and take for granted today, is being run by either oil, natural gas or coal.

We can't stop now. or return to the lifestyles of goat herders and bandits on horseback.

People need to see the forest, not just a couple trees.

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

 

[westwall]

It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.

If you can't run a Train, 18-wheeler, Cargo ship or Earth mover on it, what's the use?

We are past the age of wind energy. It manifested in the days of the Slave trade when shipbuilders made their haul off building great big huge vessels that could sail the 7 seas even with heavy amounts of supplies, animals, and slaves.

The Pirate loved wind energy and made a killing(literally) off of it. . but since the manority of humanity is settled on land these days and not on water, the new resource we chose was oil, natural gas and coal. and it was the best move humanity ever made.

What you use and take for granted today, is being run by either oil, natural gas or coal.

We can't stop now. or return to the lifestyles of goat herders and bandits on horseback.

People need to see the forest, not just a couple trees.

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

I've had a solar system for over 20 years and it has NEVER been able to handle the fixed load of my home. I view it as a purely emergency system for use if the grid goes down.

Even then it would only be viable for a small percentage of our needs and that would even be questionable during the winter months.

 

[idb]

If you can't run a Train, 18-wheeler, Cargo ship or Earth mover on it, what's the use?

We are past the age of wind energy. It manifested in the days of the Slave trade when shipbuilders made their haul off building great big huge vessels that could sail the 7 seas even with heavy amounts of supplies, animals, and slaves.

The Pirate loved wind energy and made a killing(literally) off of it. . but since the manority of humanity is settled on land these days and not on water, the new resource we chose was oil, natural gas and coal. and it was the best move humanity ever made.

What you use and take for granted today, is being run by either oil, natural gas or coal.

We can't stop now. or return to the lifestyles of goat herders and bandits on horseback.

People need to see the forest, not just a couple trees.

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

I've had a solar system for over 20 years and it has NEVER been able to handle the fixed load of my home. I view it as a purely emergency system for use if the grid goes down.

Even then it would only be viable for a small percentage of our needs and that would even be questionable during the winter months.

There's no doubt that you could install a PV system that could handle your total load.
But using it for supplementary supply as you are is a legitimate setup as well.

PV panels and controls have got hugely more efficient and cleverer since you installed your system.

The argument isn't either/or.
It isn't either stick with traditional energy sources or change it all to rely on 'alternative'.
A smart network has a variety of sources.

If nothing else, reducing the use of oil and gas for power generation would free those resources up for other uses and increase the self-reliance of the US.

 

[westwall]

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

I've had a solar system for over 20 years and it has NEVER been able to handle the fixed load of my home. I view it as a purely emergency system for use if the grid goes down.

Even then it would only be viable for a small percentage of our needs and that would even be questionable during the winter months.

There's no doubt that you could install a PV system that could handle your total load.
But using it for supplementary supply as you are is a legitimate setup as well.

PV panels and controls have got hugely more efficient and cleverer since you installed your system.

The argument isn't either/or.
It isn't either stick with traditional energy sources or change it all to rely on 'alternative'.
A smart network has a variety of sources.

If nothing else, reducing the use of oil and gas for power generation would free those resources up for other uses and increase the self-reliance of the US.

The amount of land I would have to cover with PV panels to handle the load I have would
negate the very view we wanted when we built the place. Amazingly enough the PV panels havn't gotten that much better. They have gotten cheaper but not that much better. Theoretical maximum efficiency is 28% but no panel has ever approached that level.

My panels are operating at about 9% efficiency now and dropping fast due to age so i have been researching their replacements. The best I've found for a reasonable price is 15%. I can get up to a 20% efficiency but the cost is astronomical.

 

[idb]

I've had a solar system for over 20 years and it has NEVER been able to handle the fixed load of my home. I view it as a purely emergency system for use if the grid goes down.

Even then it would only be viable for a small percentage of our needs and that would even be questionable during the winter months.

There's no doubt that you could install a PV system that could handle your total load.
But using it for supplementary supply as you are is a legitimate setup as well.

PV panels and controls have got hugely more efficient and cleverer since you installed your system.

The argument isn't either/or.
It isn't either stick with traditional energy sources or change it all to rely on 'alternative'.
A smart network has a variety of sources.

If nothing else, reducing the use of oil and gas for power generation would free those resources up for other uses and increase the self-reliance of the US.

The amount of land I would have to cover with PV panels to handle the load I have would
negate the very view we wanted when we built the place. Amazingly enough the PV panels havn't gotten that much better. They have gotten cheaper but not that much better. Theoretical maximum efficiency is 28% but no panel has ever approached that level.

My panels are operating at about 9% efficiency now and dropping fast due to age so i have been researching their replacements. The best I've found for a reasonable price is 15%. I can get up to a 20% efficiency but the cost is astronomical.

Granted, it takes a lot of research and thinking about.

 

[4Horsemen]

It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.

If you can't run a Train, 18-wheeler, Cargo ship or Earth mover on it, what's the use?

We are past the age of wind energy. It manifested in the days of the Slave trade when shipbuilders made their haul off building great big huge vessels that could sail the 7 seas even with heavy amounts of supplies, animals, and slaves.

The Pirate loved wind energy and made a killing(literally) off of it. . but since the manority of humanity is settled on land these days and not on water, the new resource we chose was oil, natural gas and coal. and it was the best move humanity ever made.

What you use and take for granted today, is being run by either oil, natural gas or coal.

We can't stop now. or return to the lifestyles of goat herders and bandits on horseback.

People need to see the forest, not just a couple trees.

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

You can't even run a 5 story building on wind energy. the HVAC unit would overheat just to keep it cool in the summer. it would seize up in the winter.

 

[idb]

If you can't run a Train, 18-wheeler, Cargo ship or Earth mover on it, what's the use?

We are past the age of wind energy. It manifested in the days of the Slave trade when shipbuilders made their haul off building great big huge vessels that could sail the 7 seas even with heavy amounts of supplies, animals, and slaves.

The Pirate loved wind energy and made a killing(literally) off of it. . but since the manority of humanity is settled on land these days and not on water, the new resource we chose was oil, natural gas and coal. and it was the best move humanity ever made.

What you use and take for granted today, is being run by either oil, natural gas or coal.

We can't stop now. or return to the lifestyles of goat herders and bandits on horseback.

People need to see the forest, not just a couple trees.

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

You can't even run a 5 story building on wind energy. the HVAC unit would overheat just to keep it cool in the summer. it would seize up in the winter.

You're talking rubbish.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Maybe they're not yet economical? That's why they need subsidies.

 

[polarbear]

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

I've had a solar system for over 20 years and it has NEVER been able to handle the fixed load of my home. I view it as a purely emergency system for use if the grid goes down.

Even then it would only be viable for a small percentage of our needs and that would even be questionable during the winter months.

There's no doubt that you could install a PV system that could handle your total load.
But using it for supplementary supply as you are is a legitimate setup as well.

PV panels and controls have got hugely more efficient and cleverer since you installed your system.

The argument isn't either/or.
It isn't either stick with traditional energy sources or change it all to rely on 'alternative'.
A smart network has a variety of sources.

If nothing else, reducing the use of oil and gas for power generation would free those resources up for other uses and increase the self-reliance of the US.

Well at least You understood that PV and Wind turbines can`t be relied on to substitute conventional power plants which must feed a power on demand grid...which not only has to be able to respond to huge and instant load changes but also to the power factor which never remains constant for more than a few seconds and that can`t be done with wind or solar. For every "green" kW that is being "grid-tied" You must have a conventional power generator running in phase to absorb these power factor and load jolts or You get a brown out to the extent that transmission lines heat up and start sagging...no kidding...!! It`s a politically sensitive subject the "green energy" engineers don`t want to discuss. It`s not something You have to deal with if You use wind + solar for Your house. But then how many of the people that voted for Obama live in their own houses. As far as I could gather from the post-election demographics most were inner city residents who hope for more entitlements. That`s not the kind of folks that can put up their own solar & wind power systems like Westwall and I have...They are mostly rural and/or farmers and mostly voted for Romney.
It`s the same thing in Germany. We even have a "green party" that has enough seats in Parliament to usurp power regardless who wins elections, by forming coalitions with whichever party won and need these freaks to get a majority of parliament seats.
Using these tactics they pushed Germany past the point of no return regarding energy policy...and it had a devastating impact for people on fixed incomes and since last year on the industry branch where energy cost is becoming the largest operating expense.
The only people less affected are well heeled property owners that can spend 50 000 Euros + for a solar roof as easily as You could drop a few buck$ to tip a waitress...
To sum it up, the political support for "green energy" regardless which country is coming from a population segment that has been duped by left wing propaganda and in effect demands that the right wing part shoulders the burden because they can and the left wing does not because they can`t. And that is called "social justice"...???!!!!
Well it`s not the first time this happened...The same thing has been done before by organized labor especially public sector Unions and if You want to see where it`s heading take a look at what is happening to the E.U. because of Greece, Spain, Italy and France.
The U.S. is not yet an "E.U." with Mexico , but may as well be with the Obama crowd immigration/amnesty promises that helped put them over the top at the polls.... the same large Latino %-age that came to the U.S. and had to start out working in sweat shops that undermine Labor Unions...which absurdly enough support Obama to do open the southern U.S. borders even more, while red-taping the border to Canada...for the Keystone pipeline,...for more hydro transmission lines and even the "International Bridge" @ Detroit & Windsor. Now Canada is left to foot the entire bill to repair this bridge even though most of the U.S. "added value" goods get trucked into Canada and to Canadian ports to Europe over this bridge,...while the raw materials to manufacture these goods flow from Canada to the U.S.....and Canada can`t repair this bridge which may collapse if it is`nt repaired unless the repairs get the executive Okay from Obama...which he has delayed for 4 years now...and counting..!!! While all the while the U.S. port authority collects the bridge toll to maintain this bridge. I guess it will make the news some day as the bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis..only then not only will the death toll be enormous but also the damage to the entire industry in Michigan and the neighbor states that ship their goods over the International bridge. Is this guy intentionally trying to bring down the entire U.S. industry...???


I also wonder how many of the feminists who decided to vote against Romney solely on the abortion "right" grounds plan to put up a PV or a wind turbine at their own expense...not very likely if they even insist that somebody else should pay for their abortions or birth control pills.
Good night America, It`s been nice knowing You !

 

[polarbear]

"Green energy", "renewable energy" no matter what You want to call it is thee most expensive energy. You can see that it is in Europe and in Canada You can see it in "green energy" Ontario of all places that despite it`s huge hydro power surplus now has one of the highest electric power prices in Canada ever since the left wing liberals drove this Province from a have to a have not Province dependent on federal "transfer payment" handouts that come from conservative Provinces.
Left wing socialism equates "green" energy to "free" energy and tries to make it so with their tax and spend economy, that in turn ruins the entire financial system which is open to this abuse ever since we switched from collateral backed money to "Fiat" money which in effect is backed by nothing but government promises that are supposed to be taken for face value by world wide investment banking....which by the way is always the one that has the last laugh ever since the U.S. finally also caved in and switched over under Nixon to Fiat money. It necessitates that after just a few transactions between You and me each $ is taxed so that it is "owed" to the government who issued it and who has to pay the banks which backed it. Can anyone tell me what the difference between communism and a Fiat money economy is, where the only way to get a $ bill back into the economy is by ever increasing government spending?...which in turn can only continue with raising more taxes which then necessitate more government spending...and so on...That`s also how a "perpetual motion" power generator is supposed to work but in reality can not...but for some strange reason You can still sell the idea to the public at large,...be it "green energy" or Fiat money.
Instead of kW this generates $. The generator is a treadmill that the working man and private industry is supposed to tread while the public sector and the % collecting banks get to a free lunch. But this absurd system is driven to a whole new level of stupidity by the Obama admin that has sold the idea to it`s electorate that the $ "generator" can be fueled by making "the rich pay their fair share"...who exactly are these "rich"...? It`s the very same people whose money is pooled that lends Fiat money to governments...!!! You have to be a complete moron to believe that this is a solution.
It`s like demanding rent from the guy that in reality owns Your house and controls Your mortgage %....because they are`nt as stupid as not to convert their Fiat $ % profits into hard assets like real estate, oil and other commodities that are the essentials of life.
Ever since Fiat money has been conceived it has made a select few extremely wealthy and ruined every country that used it for the last 1000 years and "green" energy is the same idea. The only difference is the unit of measurement, the kW instead of the $. "Green energy" has become one of the most important integral parts of Fiat money since it managed to become a necessity to avoid "man made global warming". The only way to implement and run it is with tax $,...and that`s the whole idea behind it !!!

 

[4Horsemen]

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

You can't even run a 5 story building on wind energy. the HVAC unit would overheat just to keep it cool in the summer. it would seize up in the winter.

You're talking rubbish.

Then why hasn't it been done yet? tested? Do you know of ANY building in America being run on total wind energy today?

please post the link

 

[westwall]

You can't even run a 5 story building on wind energy. the HVAC unit would overheat just to keep it cool in the summer. it would seize up in the winter.

You're talking rubbish.

Then why hasn't it been done yet? tested? Do you know of ANY building in America being run on total wind energy today?

please post the link

Hell, let's make it easy...give us a link to any building on the planet run entirely on renewals. Not a house mind you but a building. BTW The Desert Research Institute up here in Reno has built a house that is supposed to run entirely on renewables.....hasn't worked yet.

 

[flacaltenn]

It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.

If you can't run a Train, 18-wheeler, Cargo ship or Earth mover on it, what's the use?

We are past the age of wind energy. It manifested in the days of the Slave trade when shipbuilders made their haul off building great big huge vessels that could sail the 7 seas even with heavy amounts of supplies, animals, and slaves.

The Pirate loved wind energy and made a killing(literally) off of it. . but since the manority of humanity is settled on land these days and not on water, the new resource we chose was oil, natural gas and coal. and it was the best move humanity ever made.

What you use and take for granted today, is being run by either oil, natural gas or coal.

We can't stop now. or return to the lifestyles of goat herders and bandits on horseback.

People need to see the forest, not just a couple trees.

No-one's suggesting ditching oil, gas or subsitutes for wind power.
Wind, solar and others are mainly for fixed loads like buildings.

Nope.. Wind is not for "fixed loads like buildings". You can't run a SINGLE building on wind power.. It blows for 20 minutes and is gone for 40 minutes. It's there on Tues and GONE on Thursdays.

Serious question.. Have you ever SEEN a production graph for a healthy wind farm? It's NOT an alternative source of power.. You can't contract for it because delivery is statistically sketchy. You can't tell a nat gas plant owner to drop his generated load into the ground to take 20 minutes of wind onto the grid and NOT CHARGE that into WASTED energy and capacity.

WestWall was right. Wind is so entirely entirely unreliable that it's only persistent useful tasks is to locally produce materials (such as grinding grain, pumping water or desalinization) that can be stored at an irregular rate. It is NOT an alternative. It's a fickle supplement at best.