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hey Old Rocks,
There's not a gotdamn thing mankind can do to help the earth. the earth helps itself.
If we used you stupid logic we could stop Hurricanes and Tornados and Earthquakes and Floods.
Stop being a moron. Wind Energy is bullshit propaganda to slow the movement of mankind.
and let me guess, YOU own car right now? maybe 2?
If wind energy is bullshit propaganda then what exactly is the oil business? Fossil fuels, big business, and extreme capitalist greed slows the movement of mankind, not wind energy.
Except that energy from wind is sporadic and unpredictable. Not the stuff that would be an alternative to a 24/7 Nat Gas plant or coal plant. You cannot have a society like ours when the wind doesn't blow on Thursday and you've mandated all the fossil fuels to be evil.. And you don't think that Big Wind has lobbyists? That the $Bills that GE and Siemens and the other giants have gotten to be major players in wind is somehow cuter and cuddlier?
The amount of waste from a nuclear plant is 0.7 ounces/per household/ per year. Can you do better than that? No CO2 emissions, no acid rain.
Wind is not gonna be a major factor in actually continuing our standard of living in a post -fossil-fuel world.
If wind energy is bullshit propaganda then what exactly is the oil business? Fossil fuels, big business, and extreme capitalist greed slows the movement of mankind, not wind energy.
Except that energy from wind is sporadic and unpredictable. Not the stuff that would be an alternative to a 24/7 Nat Gas plant or coal plant. You cannot have a society like ours when the wind doesn't blow on Thursday and you've mandated all the fossil fuels to be evil.. And you don't think that Big Wind has lobbyists? That the $Bills that GE and Siemens and the other giants have gotten to be major players in wind is somehow cuter and cuddlier?
The amount of waste from a nuclear plant is 0.7 ounces/per household/ per year. Can you do better than that? No CO2 emissions, no acid rain.
Wind is not gonna be a major factor in actually continuing our standard of living in a post -fossil-fuel world.
Well I am not saying that wind will be the primary energy source I was simply saying that it wasn't bullshit as that guy was saying. Also i agree that there are lobbyists for wind energy in Washington and that big money drives a lot of those contracts, but if I had to choose a between an oil lobbyist and a wind lobbyist then i would choose the wind lobbyist.
Could someone please post a link to a news item on which the OP is based?
Federal support for clean power "will have been largely dismantled by the end of 2014," a new report by a trio of think tanks warns. More than 70% of the programs now on the books -- many of them part of the Obama administration's 2009 economic stimulus bill -- are set to expire in the next two years, the report concludes.
Does the Earth have the ability to worry, no probably not, but do I believe that the Earth is just a rock? Not at all.
I believe that the Earth is a part of all of us, from the largest organism to the smallest. I believe that no one species or organism has dominion over the Earth or each other. I believe that the Earth is one massive living organism that is very giving but also very dependent on the life that lives on it and in it. It gives us (all life) resources to live on and with, but it depends on us in order for those resources to be protected, nourished, utilized correctly, and sustained for future life.
With that being said it is undeniable to me that the human species is the most destructive species of life on Earth and that we knowingly and selfishly contribute to the destruction of life and the Earth in so many ways. The Earth itself is not selfish. It will give us resources for as long as the resources exists. However, because of that selflessness of the Earth people will quickly and ruthlessly take and take from the Earth without ever giving back, believing that they have dominion without consequence.
Justifying pollution, destruction, abuse, greed, consumption, and other negative human actions that contribute to damaging the Earth and the life that lives on it and in it because of the irresponsible belief that we are too small to impact it or that we "own" it will ultimately lead to an irreversable moment in time when it will be too late to fix the damage we as a species have all inflicted.
People need to understand their impact and how it is not just a small annoyance to this planet. Our actions affect everything from the air we breathe to the water we drink, from the otter swimming right now in Puget Sound to the wild flowers growing around Mt. Rainer. Being so arrogant to pretend that human beings are separate and indepedent from all other life forms on Earth as well as the Earth itself as a living body is not only dangerous and irresponsible it will be deadly for many things on this planet if that line of thought continues in my opinion.
There are many good people that want to see this planet protected and healthy, but unfortuntely years and years of want and destruction from other people has bred generations of apathetic individuals that would rather ignore their impact than to live a little more simply.
And I am sorry if this is coming across as angry I am not intending it to be like that I am just frustrated because I see the apathy every day.
Where, oh where do you see anyone justifying pollution? No one here is trying to do that.
However, most of the sceptics here have a very good foundation in science (far better than the AGW revisionists) and we can see for ourselves the corruption in the AGW movement. What we demand is a return to the fundamentals of science and the scientific method.
The AGW movement has prostituted itself for politics. That is a crime against every good scientist who has ever lived.
People justify pollution by ignoring it. There are people on here, in the Seattle area, in the US, and all over the world that ignore pollution and how we contribute to it. Not everybody obviously but a whole lot of people justify what is going on by simply ignoring it or trying to lesson the impact. I am not just talking about global warming. I am talking about trash all over the place, plastic, sewage and other harmful items littering the oceans and rivers, smoke stacks everywhere, chemicals and waste going into the soil, etc etc.
If wind energy is bullshit propaganda then what exactly is the oil business? Fossil fuels, big business, and extreme capitalist greed slows the movement of mankind, not wind energy.
Except that energy from wind is sporadic and unpredictable. Not the stuff that would be an alternative to a 24/7 Nat Gas plant or coal plant. You cannot have a society like ours when the wind doesn't blow on Thursday and you've mandated all the fossil fuels to be evil.. And you don't think that Big Wind has lobbyists? That the $Bills that GE and Siemens and the other giants have gotten to be major players in wind is somehow cuter and cuddlier?
The amount of waste from a nuclear plant is 0.7 ounces/per household/ per year. Can you do better than that? No CO2 emissions, no acid rain.
Wind is not gonna be a major factor in actually continuing our standard of living in a post -fossil-fuel world.
Well I am not saying that wind will be the primary energy source I was simply saying that it wasn't bullshit as that guy was saying. Also i agree that there are lobbyists for wind energy in Washington and that big money drives a lot of those contracts, but if I had to choose a between an oil lobbyist and a wind lobbyist then i would choose the wind lobbyist.
Could someone please post a link to a news item on which the OP is based?
Uh -- News flash.. Wind subsidies are being phased out. Obama is not jumping up and down trying to save them...
U.S. faces clean energy bust as subsidies expire, report warns - CNN.com
Federal support for clean power "will have been largely dismantled by the end of 2014," a new report by a trio of think tanks warns. More than 70% of the programs now on the books -- many of them part of the Obama administration's 2009 economic stimulus bill -- are set to expire in the next two years, the report concludes.
Subsidies were SLASHED in Europe over the past 5 years ESPECIALLY WIND! The bottom is out of the Wind market on Wall Street. You are looking at the predictable floundering that was to eventually happen..
$200Bill in Wind/Solar subsidies --- more than enough already.. Focus on basic research and find BETTER "alternatives"...
Except that energy from wind is sporadic and unpredictable. Not the stuff that would be an alternative to a 24/7 Nat Gas plant or coal plant. You cannot have a society like ours when the wind doesn't blow on Thursday and you've mandated all the fossil fuels to be evil.. And you don't think that Big Wind has lobbyists? That the $Bills that GE and Siemens and the other giants have gotten to be major players in wind is somehow cuter and cuddlier?
The amount of waste from a nuclear plant is 0.7 ounces/per household/ per year. Can you do better than that? No CO2 emissions, no acid rain.
Wind is not gonna be a major factor in actually continuing our standard of living in a post -fossil-fuel world.
Well I am not saying that wind will be the primary energy source I was simply saying that it wasn't bullshit as that guy was saying. Also i agree that there are lobbyists for wind energy in Washington and that big money drives a lot of those contracts, but if I had to choose a between an oil lobbyist and a wind lobbyist then i would choose the wind lobbyist.
And if you do you will spend the majority of your time in the dark. Wind is a non starter. It's good for grinding wheat and pumping water for troughs. That's about it.
Could someone please post a link to a news item on which the OP is based?
Uh -- News flash.. Wind subsidies are being phased out. Obama is not jumping up and down trying to save them...
U.S. faces clean energy bust as subsidies expire, report warns - CNN.com
Federal support for clean power "will have been largely dismantled by the end of 2014," a new report by a trio of think tanks warns. More than 70% of the programs now on the books -- many of them part of the Obama administration's 2009 economic stimulus bill -- are set to expire in the next two years, the report concludes.
Subsidies were SLASHED in Europe over the past 5 years ESPECIALLY WIND! The bottom is out of the Wind market on Wall Street. You are looking at the predictable floundering that was to eventually happen..
$200Bill in Wind/Solar subsidies --- more than enough already.. Focus on basic research and find BETTER "alternatives"...
Thank you.
Your article says that gas energy only became competitive because of subsidies for research from the federal government from the '70s.
It also says that wind energy is becoming more competitive through a mix of tax credits, subsidies and research.
Whether or not you believe in the politics and science of 'clean energy', the logic of expanding the options for energy sources and self-sufficiency seems self-evident to me.
This can only truly come about through long-term research.
Oh, and nowhere in the article can I see where Obama has abandoned wind energy.
Well I am not saying that wind will be the primary energy source I was simply saying that it wasn't bullshit as that guy was saying. Also i agree that there are lobbyists for wind energy in Washington and that big money drives a lot of those contracts, but if I had to choose a between an oil lobbyist and a wind lobbyist then i would choose the wind lobbyist.
And if you do you will spend the majority of your time in the dark. Wind is a non starter. It's good for grinding wheat and pumping water for troughs. That's about it.
Surely you're being deliberately disingenuous.
No-one suggests that wind should be the only source of power.
Any sensible energy policy will have a range of sources.
And if you do you will spend the majority of your time in the dark. Wind is a non starter. It's good for grinding wheat and pumping water for troughs. That's about it.
Surely you're being deliberately disingenuous.
No-one suggests that wind should be the only source of power.
Any sensible energy policy will have a range of sources.
No, I'm not. Wind has never lived up to even 50% of the expectations for it. Wind is useless on the large scale. It may be useful for very specific settings and on the small scale, but after 5 years the maintenance costs on the mills becomes prohibitive. Something the wind people allways seem to neglect to tell you.
Except that energy from wind is sporadic and unpredictable. Not the stuff that would be an alternative to a 24/7 Nat Gas plant or coal plant. You cannot have a society like ours when the wind doesn't blow on Thursday and you've mandated all the fossil fuels to be evil.. And you don't think that Big Wind has lobbyists? That the $Bills that GE and Siemens and the other giants have gotten to be major players in wind is somehow cuter and cuddlier?
The amount of waste from a nuclear plant is 0.7 ounces/per household/ per year. Can you do better than that? No CO2 emissions, no acid rain.
Wind is not gonna be a major factor in actually continuing our standard of living in a post -fossil-fuel world.
Well I am not saying that wind will be the primary energy source I was simply saying that it wasn't bullshit as that guy was saying. Also i agree that there are lobbyists for wind energy in Washington and that big money drives a lot of those contracts, but if I had to choose a between an oil lobbyist and a wind lobbyist then i would choose the wind lobbyist.
And if you do you will spend the majority of your time in the dark. Wind is a non starter. It's good for grinding wheat and pumping water for troughs. That's about it.
Surely you're being deliberately disingenuous.
No-one suggests that wind should be the only source of power.
Any sensible energy policy will have a range of sources.
No, I'm not. Wind has never lived up to even 50% of the expectations for it. Wind is useless on the large scale. It may be useful for very specific settings and on the small scale, but after 5 years the maintenance costs on the mills becomes prohibitive. Something the wind people allways seem to neglect to tell you.
Are you saying that wind turbines are only good for 5 years
Then what happens - are they dismantled and replaced?
Also, I find it unlikely that there have been no improvements in 100 years.
Well I am not saying that wind will be the primary energy source I was simply saying that it wasn't bullshit as that guy was saying. Also i agree that there are lobbyists for wind energy in Washington and that big money drives a lot of those contracts, but if I had to choose a between an oil lobbyist and a wind lobbyist then i would choose the wind lobbyist.
And if you do you will spend the majority of your time in the dark. Wind is a non starter. It's good for grinding wheat and pumping water for troughs. That's about it.
It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.
It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.
It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.
Just curious Alex....exactly how many raptors, bats, and migratory birds are you willing to sacrifice at the altar of this poor, at best, alternative energy source? If technology were to improve, how many more raptors, bats, and migratory birds would you be willing to sacrifice? Further, were you OK with oil companies being responsible for the deaths of birds as well?
It is good for a whole lot more than that. Clean alternative energies are always going to struggle when millions of people discount it as only good for grinding wheat.
Just curious Alex....exactly how many raptors, bats, and migratory birds are you willing to sacrifice at the altar of this poor, at best, alternative energy source? If technology were to improve, how many more raptors, bats, and migratory birds would you be willing to sacrifice? Further, were you OK with oil companies being responsible for the deaths of birds as well?
I allways find it amazing that the environmentalists will get all worked up when an oil spill kills a few thousand critters every few years. But, they turn a blind eye to the wind companies that massacre more critters in a single year than all the oil spills that have ever occurred in all of mans history.
Quite stupefied by that I am...
HowStuffWorks "Do wind turbines kill birds?"Man-made structure/technology
Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)
Feral and domestic cats
Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]
Power lines
130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]
Windows (residential and commercial)
100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]
Pesticides
70 million [source: AWEA]
Automobiles
60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]
Lighted communication towers
40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]
Wind turbines
10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]
Collisions with wind turbines account for about one-tenth of a percent of all "unnatural" bird deaths in the United States each year. And of all bird deaths, 30 percent are due to natural causes, like baby birds falling from nests [source: AWEA]. So why the widespread misconception that labels wind turbines "bird-o-matics"? I*t all starts with California, raptors and the thousands of old turbines that make up the Altamont Pass wind farm.
Just curious Alex....exactly how many raptors, bats, and migratory birds are you willing to sacrifice at the altar of this poor, at best, alternative energy source? If technology were to improve, how many more raptors, bats, and migratory birds would you be willing to sacrifice? Further, were you OK with oil companies being responsible for the deaths of birds as well?
I allways find it amazing that the environmentalists will get all worked up when an oil spill kills a few thousand critters every few years. But, they turn a blind eye to the wind companies that massacre more critters in a single year than all the oil spills that have ever occurred in all of mans history.
Quite stupefied by that I am...
Perhaps because they can understand the proportionality of the risk?
HowStuffWorks "Do wind turbines kill birds?"Man-made structure/technology
Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)
Feral and domestic cats
Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]
Power lines
130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]
Windows (residential and commercial)
100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]
Pesticides
70 million [source: AWEA]
Automobiles
60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]
Lighted communication towers
40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]
Wind turbines
10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]
Collisions with wind turbines account for about one-tenth of a percent of all "unnatural" bird deaths in the United States each year. And of all bird deaths, 30 percent are due to natural causes, like baby birds falling from nests [source: AWEA]. So why the widespread misconception that labels wind turbines "bird-o-matics"? I*t all starts with California, raptors and the thousands of old turbines that make up the Altamont Pass wind farm.
I allways find it amazing that the environmentalists will get all worked up when an oil spill kills a few thousand critters every few years. But, they turn a blind eye to the wind companies that massacre more critters in a single year than all the oil spills that have ever occurred in all of mans history.
Quite stupefied by that I am...
Perhaps because they can understand the proportionality of the risk?
HowStuffWorks "Do wind turbines kill birds?"Man-made structure/technology
Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)
Feral and domestic cats
Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]
Power lines
130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]
Windows (residential and commercial)
100 million -- 1 billion [source: TreeHugger]
Pesticides
70 million [source: AWEA]
Automobiles
60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]
Lighted communication towers
40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]
Wind turbines
10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]
Collisions with wind turbines account for about one-tenth of a percent of all "unnatural" bird deaths in the United States each year. And of all bird deaths, 30 percent are due to natural causes, like baby birds falling from nests [source: AWEA]. So why the widespread misconception that labels wind turbines "bird-o-matics"? I*t all starts with California, raptors and the thousands of old turbines that make up the Altamont Pass wind farm.
Yes, those are some pretty amusing numbers. Most made up out of whole cloth I noticed. Which still brings us to the fact that an oil spill can kill 70 birds and the company gets fined tens of thousands while a wind turbine kills hundreds of times more and they get a free pass. You guys are all about being "fair". So, you tell me...where's the fairness in that little fact?
