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Exactly what is the welfare work requirement? In a nutshell:
Let's suppose a guy who is on welfare. He is uneducated and cannot find work. When he can, the best he can do is washing dishes somewhere. But he always liked to tinker with cars. An auto mechanics school opens up in his town. They provide sepcial arrangements for welfare recipients and our welfare guy has a chance to enroll.
Under President Obama's plan, he will be able to do it. He can still receive welfare while attending auto mechanic's shool. He pays his reduced tuition out of his welfare benefits and agrees to settle up for the rest after he graduates and finds work - you know, kind of like a student loan.
Under the former plan, he would be screwed.
Seems pretty evident to me which is the better of the two deals - both for people on welfare and for society in general. Which would you rather have in the long run - a dish washer or a trained auto mechanic?
Let's suppose, Georgie, that you decide to put your dinero where you put your diner.....
...how about you pay for the tuition of some of the folks you'd like to support....
No?
Then how about we suppose that you've been on this earth long enough to be aware of the beliefs of the Left re: welfare vs. workfare.
...and that you will admit the amazing success of the workfare aspect of the 1996 Bill that Obama is emasculating....and the intransigence of the Left in requiring any....any...work for welfare 'clients'...
...can you do that?
No?
That defines you as an ideologue.
In the example I gave, the auto repair school was accepting reduced tuition from welfare people in order to allow them to pay their own way out of their welfare benefits, so your tax dollars would not be involved beyond what they already are for the original benefits.
Also, a suggestion - cut the cutsie, cutsie business and just argue the point.
Exactly what is the welfare work requirement? In a nutshell:
All recipients of welfare aid must find work within two years of receiving aid, including single parents who are required to work at least 30 hours per week opposed to 35 or 55 required by two parent families. Failure to comply with work requirements could result in loss of benefits.
Let's suppose a guy who is on welfare. He is uneducated and cannot find work. When he can, the best he can do is washing dishes somewhere. But he always liked to tinker with cars. An auto mechanics school opens up in his town. They provide sepcial arrangements for welfare recipients and our welfare guy has a chance to enroll.
Under President Obama's plan, he will be able to do it. He can still receive welfare while attending auto mechanic's shool. He pays his reduced tuition out of his welfare benefits and agrees to settle up for the rest after he graduates and finds work - you know, kind of like a student loan.
Under the former plan, he would be screwed.
Seems pretty evident to me which is the better of the two deals - both for people on welfare and for society in general. Which would you rather have in the long run - a dish washer or a trained auto mechanic?
Let's suppose, Georgie, that you decide to put your dinero where you put your diner.....
...how about you pay for the tuition of some of the folks you'd like to support....
No?
Then how about we suppose that you've been on this earth long enough to be aware of the beliefs of the Left re: welfare vs. workfare.
...and that you will admit the amazing success of the workfare aspect of the 1996 Bill that Obama is emasculating....and the intransigence of the Left in requiring any....any...work for welfare 'clients'...
...can you do that?
No?
That defines you as an ideologue.
Vichy Americans.Despite the endless complaints, Vichy Americans still hold the nation in their claws; witness the execution of a man in the totalitarian state of Texas last week.
Illegal.
Unless he pays for same as an avocation after attending his full time job....
....else, no welfare benefits.
Let's suppose, Georgie, that you decide to put your dinero where you put your diner.....
...how about you pay for the tuition of some of the folks you'd like to support....
No?
Then how about we suppose that you've been on this earth long enough to be aware of the beliefs of the Left re: welfare vs. workfare.
...and that you will admit the amazing success of the workfare aspect of the 1996 Bill that Obama is emasculating....and the intransigence of the Left in requiring any....any...work for welfare 'clients'...
...can you do that?
No?
That defines you as an ideologue.
In the example I gave, the auto repair school was accepting reduced tuition from welfare people in order to allow them to pay their own way out of their welfare benefits, so your tax dollars would not be involved beyond what they already are for the original benefits.
Also, a suggestion - cut the cutsie, cutsie business and just argue the point.
Illegal.
Unless he pays for same as an avocation after attending his full time job....
....else, no welfare benefits.
Here's the real question, Georgie...
...do you agree that the President of the United States has no constitutional power to alter a law that has been duly passed and signed by a previous President?
And, since I know you to be honest, you will agree with my premise...what would you be saying about this scenario if it had been done by a Republican?
In the example I gave, the auto repair school was accepting reduced tuition from welfare people in order to allow them to pay their own way out of their welfare benefits, so your tax dollars would not be involved beyond what they already are for the original benefits.
Also, a suggestion - cut the cutsie, cutsie business and just argue the point.
Illegal.
Unless he pays for same as an avocation after attending his full time job....
....else, no welfare benefits.
Here's the real question, Georgie...
...do you agree that the President of the United States has no constitutional power to alter a law that has been duly passed and signed by a previous President?
And, since I know you to be honest, you will agree with my premise...what would you be saying about this scenario if it had been done by a Republican?
Is there a difference between repealing a law and "altering" a law? Seems to me there is. Federal laws can only be repealed by an act of Congress or the federal courts. Is that what is going on here? Right now, I don't have the time to wade through your OP and the link(s) involved, but I would suslpect it isn't. I would suspect that this is just another argument based on mischaracterization, so popular from the Right, especially during an election year.
Dear PC I support the idea that welfare (and also "earned" visas for immigrant workers) could be monitored and managed more effectively by delegating this through a school system, similar to enrollment in work-study programs.
(1) if all applicants had to be screened and accepted and sponsored under a school program, then only groups that could handle a person starting at a particular level of joblessness or homelessness would take on that responsibility
(2) programs with better success records at training and graduating more people would get more support and resources to replicate their programs, and could specialize in which populations they serve
(3) people could also have a choice of private education and internships at either religious OR secular schools; I also believe this is where prison, public housing, mental health and health care reform can best be organized locally per community and state, instead of trying to legislate mandates across the board.
Here is a model for developing a sustainable community campus with student service internships on site, as written up in federal legislation for public housing reform, in order to break the cycle of poverty by counseling and mentoring families to become independent:
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
Of course, this whole idea got censored by govt because it does not serve the political agenda of either party; the people who put the plans together before they were evicted were poor residents in a Black Democrat district, where this idea of sustainable education instead of dependence on govt neither served the Democrat liberals (who perpetuate the problems instead of investing directly into solutions like this!) nor the Republicans who only want to "complain" about liberal dependency and won't promote solutions from that camp.
Exactly what is the welfare work requirement? In a nutshell:
Let's suppose a guy who is on welfare. He is uneducated and cannot find work. When he can, the best he can do is washing dishes somewhere. But he always liked to tinker with cars. An auto mechanics school opens up in his town. They provide sepcial arrangements for welfare recipients and our welfare guy has a chance to enroll.
Under President Obama's plan, he will be able to do it. He can still receive welfare while attending auto mechanic's shool. He pays his reduced tuition out of his welfare benefits and agrees to settle up for the rest after he graduates and finds work - you know, kind of like a student loan.
Under the former plan, he would be screwed.
Seems pretty evident to me which is the better of the two deals - both for people on welfare and for society in general. Which would you rather have in the long run - a dish washer or a trained auto mechanic?
Let's suppose, Georgie, that you decide to put your dinero where you put your diner.....
...how about you pay for the tuition of some of the folks you'd like to support....
No?
Then how about we suppose that you've been on this earth long enough to be aware of the beliefs of the Left re: welfare vs. workfare.
...and that you will admit the amazing success of the workfare aspect of the 1996 Bill that Obama is emasculating....and the intransigence of the Left in requiring any....any...work for welfare 'clients'...
...can you do that?
No?
That defines you as an ideologue.
With respect to laws passed by Congress, and signed by the President...can another President decide, unilaterally, to change the law?
Or is that constitutional?
1. "Determined to destroy Bill Clintons signature achievement, President Obamas administration has opened a loophole in the 1996 welfare reform legislation big enough to make the law ineffective. Its work requirement the central feature of the legislation has been diluted beyond recognition by the bureaucrats at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
2. ...HHS issued regulations that modified gutted the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits. The regs say that vocational educational training or job search/readiness programs count as well in meeting the basic condition that recipients work in order to receive welfare...
3. The Congress specifically prohibited the use of education or training to fulfill the requirement.
4. When it passed welfare reform, Congress expressly limited the authority of the secretary of HHS to waive the work requirement.
a. Section 415(a)(2)(B) of the welfare reform act, now codified at 42 U.S.C. § 615(a)(2)(B), expressly states that a waiver granted under section 1315 of this title [the one that HHS now claims it is acting under] or otherwise which relates to the provision of assistance under a State program funded under this part (as in effect on Sept. 30, 1996) shall not affect the applicability of section 607 of this title [which applies the work requirements] to the State.
b. In short, whatever else might be said of the scope of the waiver authority, the Secretary has no lawful authority to waive the work requirements of section 607...
5. ...then-Senate Republican Majority Leader Trent Lott (Miss.) was particularly suspicious that future HHS secretaries might dilute the work requirement, just as the administration has done. He worked overtime with counsel to make sure that education and training would not be used to substitute for the work provision.
6. ...the action is a blatant violation of the law, and Mitt Romney has attacked it, saying the linkage of work and welfare is essential to prevent welfare from becoming a way of life.
7. ... in the past, state bureaucrats have attempted to define activities such as hula dancing, attending Weight Watchers, and bed rest as work. These dodges were blocked by the federal work standards. Now that the Obama administration has abolished those standards,...
8. ...welfare reform has been one of the most successful programs enacted in recent decades. Under its provisions, the welfare population has been cut in half while child poverty until the current recession dropped by one-third.
9. ...Obamas strategy of expanding his political base by widening the dependency on government handouts.
10. We are rapidly becoming a nation that doesnt work, doesnt pay income taxes and gets entitlement checks."
Obama kills welfare reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
"On May 22, 1782, one of Washingtons officers, ...proposed that Washington become King of the United States.
Washington wrote that he could not think of anything in his own conduct that would suggest that he would consider being king. You could not have found a person to whom your schemes are more disagreeable.
Rediscovering George Washington . Classroom: George Washington and the Rule of Law | PBS
Barack Obama.....you're no George Washington.
Hmmm . . . provocative. You would get a D+ to a C- at Columbia for this one.
With respect to laws passed by Congress, and signed by the President...can another President decide, unilaterally, to change the law?
Or is that constitutional?
1. "Determined to destroy Bill Clintons signature achievement, President Obamas administration has opened a loophole in the 1996 welfare reform legislation big enough to make the law ineffective. Its work requirement the central feature of the legislation has been diluted beyond recognition by the bureaucrats at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
2. ...HHS issued regulations that modified gutted the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits. The regs say that vocational educational training or job search/readiness programs count as well in meeting the basic condition that recipients work in order to receive welfare...
3. The Congress specifically prohibited the use of education or training to fulfill the requirement.
4. When it passed welfare reform, Congress expressly limited the authority of the secretary of HHS to waive the work requirement.
a. Section 415(a)(2)(B) of the welfare reform act, now codified at 42 U.S.C. § 615(a)(2)(B), expressly states that a waiver granted under section 1315 of this title [the one that HHS now claims it is acting under] or otherwise which relates to the provision of assistance under a State program funded under this part (as in effect on Sept. 30, 1996) shall not affect the applicability of section 607 of this title [which applies the work requirements] to the State.
b. In short, whatever else might be said of the scope of the waiver authority, the Secretary has no lawful authority to waive the work requirements of section 607...
5. ...then-Senate Republican Majority Leader Trent Lott (Miss.) was particularly suspicious that future HHS secretaries might dilute the work requirement, just as the administration has done. He worked overtime with counsel to make sure that education and training would not be used to substitute for the work provision.
6. ...the action is a blatant violation of the law, and Mitt Romney has attacked it, saying the linkage of work and welfare is essential to prevent welfare from becoming a way of life.
7. ... in the past, state bureaucrats have attempted to define activities such as hula dancing, attending Weight Watchers, and bed rest as work. These dodges were blocked by the federal work standards. Now that the Obama administration has abolished those standards,...
8. ...welfare reform has been one of the most successful programs enacted in recent decades. Under its provisions, the welfare population has been cut in half while child poverty until the current recession dropped by one-third.
9. ...Obamas strategy of expanding his political base by widening the dependency on government handouts.
10. We are rapidly becoming a nation that doesnt work, doesnt pay income taxes and gets entitlement checks."
Obama kills welfare reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
"On May 22, 1782, one of Washingtons officers, ...proposed that Washington become King of the United States.
Washington wrote that he could not think of anything in his own conduct that would suggest that he would consider being king. You could not have found a person to whom your schemes are more disagreeable.
Rediscovering George Washington . Classroom: George Washington and the Rule of Law | PBS
Barack Obama.....you're no George Washington.
Now, Georgie....you know very well that the functions and responsibilities of the three branches of the United States government are very different.
Or...you can pick up a copy of the Constitution if you have forgotten same.
Obama's job?
ex·ec·u·tive/igˈzekyətiv/
Adjective:
Having the power to put plans, actions, or laws into effect.
Laws he created, wrote, imagined?
Nope.
And not "...modified — gutted — the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits. The regs say that “vocational educational training or job search/readiness programs” “count as well” in meeting the basic condition that recipients work in order to receive welfare benefits.
The Congress specifically prohibited the use of education or training to fulfill the requirement."
Obama Kills Welfare Reform at DickMorris.com
Now, Georgie....you know very well that the functions and responsibilities of the three branches of the United States government are very different.
Or...you can pick up a copy of the Constitution if you have forgotten same.
Obama's job?
ex·ec·u·tive/igˈzekyətiv/
Adjective:
Having the power to put plans, actions, or laws into effect.
Laws he created, wrote, imagined?
Nope.
And not "...modified gutted the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits. The regs say that vocational educational training or job search/readiness programs count as well in meeting the basic condition that recipients work in order to receive welfare benefits.
The Congress specifically prohibited the use of education or training to fulfill the requirement."
Obama Kills Welfare Reform at DickMorris.com
I don't see this as "gutting" the welfare laws. I see it as adding to them - putting up another alternative to the work requirement. What's so bad about that?
You don't see education as more of a long-range solution to the welfare problem than merely requiring some menial job in order to justify continuation of benefits?
And BTW - you cite this as "Bill Clinton's law." What does he have to say about the changes?
Hmmm . . . provocative. You would get a D+ to a C- at Columbia for this one.
With respect to laws passed by Congress, and signed by the President...can another President decide, unilaterally, to change the law?
Or is that constitutional?
1. "Determined to destroy Bill Clintons signature achievement, President Obamas administration has opened a loophole in the 1996 welfare reform legislation big enough to make the law ineffective. Its work requirement the central feature of the legislation has been diluted beyond recognition by the bureaucrats at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
2. ...HHS issued regulations that modified gutted the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits. The regs say that vocational educational training or job search/readiness programs count as well in meeting the basic condition that recipients work in order to receive welfare...
3. The Congress specifically prohibited the use of education or training to fulfill the requirement.
4. When it passed welfare reform, Congress expressly limited the authority of the secretary of HHS to waive the work requirement.
a. Section 415(a)(2)(B) of the welfare reform act, now codified at 42 U.S.C. § 615(a)(2)(B), expressly states that a waiver granted under section 1315 of this title [the one that HHS now claims it is acting under] or otherwise which relates to the provision of assistance under a State program funded under this part (as in effect on Sept. 30, 1996) shall not affect the applicability of section 607 of this title [which applies the work requirements] to the State.
b. In short, whatever else might be said of the scope of the waiver authority, the Secretary has no lawful authority to waive the work requirements of section 607...
5. ...then-Senate Republican Majority Leader Trent Lott (Miss.) was particularly suspicious that future HHS secretaries might dilute the work requirement, just as the administration has done. He worked overtime with counsel to make sure that education and training would not be used to substitute for the work provision.
6. ...the action is a blatant violation of the law, and Mitt Romney has attacked it, saying the linkage of work and welfare is essential to prevent welfare from becoming a way of life.
7. ... in the past, state bureaucrats have attempted to define activities such as hula dancing, attending Weight Watchers, and bed rest as work. These dodges were blocked by the federal work standards. Now that the Obama administration has abolished those standards,...
8. ...welfare reform has been one of the most successful programs enacted in recent decades. Under its provisions, the welfare population has been cut in half while child poverty until the current recession dropped by one-third.
9. ...Obamas strategy of expanding his political base by widening the dependency on government handouts.
10. We are rapidly becoming a nation that doesnt work, doesnt pay income taxes and gets entitlement checks."
Obama kills welfare reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
"On May 22, 1782, one of Washingtons officers, ...proposed that Washington become King of the United States.
Washington wrote that he could not think of anything in his own conduct that would suggest that he would consider being king. You could not have found a person to whom your schemes are more disagreeable.
Rediscovering George Washington . Classroom: George Washington and the Rule of Law | PBS
Barack Obama.....you're no George Washington.
Judging by your distance from same, geographically and intellectually, your prognostication deserves all of the consideration most of your posts engender.
Nil.
I told you going to the thesaurus would fool folks some of the time.
But I did not tell you that it would fool folks all the time.
But you will learn. Coulter has.
Hmmm . . . provocative. You would get a D+ to a C- at Columbia for this one.
Judging by your distance from same, geographically and intellectually, your prognostication deserves all of the consideration most of your posts engender.
Nil.
watching your squirm
3. It is duly noted that you declined to answer as to whether or not the President had the right to alter the law. Glenn Greenwald wrote about this in his book "And Justice For Some," saying our nation's most powerful people enjoy more and more immunity from the rule of law. No example could more clearly exemplify same.
With respect to laws passed by Congress, and signed by the President...can another President decide, unilaterally, to change the law?
Or is that constitutional?
1. "Determined to destroy Bill Clintons signature achievement, President Obamas administration has opened a loophole in the 1996 welfare reform legislation big enough to make the law ineffective. Its work requirement the central feature of the legislation has been diluted beyond recognition by the bureaucrats at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
2. ...HHS issued regulations that modified gutted the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits. The regs say that vocational educational training or job search/readiness programs count as well in meeting the basic condition that recipients work in order to receive welfare...
3. The Congress specifically prohibited the use of education or training to fulfill the requirement.
4. When it passed welfare reform, Congress expressly limited the authority of the secretary of HHS to waive the work requirement.
a. Section 415(a)(2)(B) of the welfare reform act, now codified at 42 U.S.C. § 615(a)(2)(B), expressly states that a waiver granted under section 1315 of this title [the one that HHS now claims it is acting under] or otherwise which relates to the provision of assistance under a State program funded under this part (as in effect on Sept. 30, 1996) shall not affect the applicability of section 607 of this title [which applies the work requirements] to the State.
b. In short, whatever else might be said of the scope of the waiver authority, the Secretary has no lawful authority to waive the work requirements of section 607...
5. ...then-Senate Republican Majority Leader Trent Lott (Miss.) was particularly suspicious that future HHS secretaries might dilute the work requirement, just as the administration has done. He worked overtime with counsel to make sure that education and training would not be used to substitute for the work provision.
6. ...the action is a blatant violation of the law, and Mitt Romney has attacked it, saying the linkage of work and welfare is essential to prevent welfare from becoming a way of life.
7. ... in the past, state bureaucrats have attempted to define activities such as hula dancing, attending Weight Watchers, and bed rest as work. These dodges were blocked by the federal work standards. Now that the Obama administration has abolished those standards,...
8. ...welfare reform has been one of the most successful programs enacted in recent decades. Under its provisions, the welfare population has been cut in half while child poverty until the current recession dropped by one-third.
9. ...Obamas strategy of expanding his political base by widening the dependency on government handouts.
10. We are rapidly becoming a nation that doesnt work, doesnt pay income taxes and gets entitlement checks."
Obama kills welfare reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
"On May 22, 1782, one of Washingtons officers, ...proposed that Washington become King of the United States.
Washington wrote that he could not think of anything in his own conduct that would suggest that he would consider being king. You could not have found a person to whom your schemes are more disagreeable.
Rediscovering George Washington . Classroom: George Washington and the Rule of Law | PBS
Barack Obama.....you're no George Washington.
