Obama Declares Victory And Leaves In Defeat

[ABikerSailor]

Given that the US successfully overthrew Hussein, I don't think it is fair to say we were "defeated". It might be fair to say that we "failed". Certainly, we failed to halt a major WMD program.

But even if we concede that the overall intervention was in Iraq, I'm not sure how one could argue that Obama's command was a failure. I'm not sure if any of Obama's stated goals in Iraq weren't met-- the main one was to withdraw the troops, preferably sooner than this. If you look at Politifact's count on Obama's campaign promises, it lists only one goal for Iraq, which has been kept: PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Military. Obama might have failed to do what you wanted to do, but he seems to have been able to largely do what he said he would (admittedly a low bar, he made many more promises about Afghanistan).

Part of the reason we are leaving now does seem to be because of the Iraqi government. When we voluntarily returned sovereignty to them in 2004 (it's been awhile, hasn't it?) we implicitly gave them the right to refuse privileges to our troops or even to order them to leave the country. That seven years later they are exercising this right, when US policy was already to withdraw troops on a similar timeline, can hardly be called a defeat.

It is a diplomatic defeat and a tactical defeat because not only couldn't we assure that our troops would be safe from unfair prosecution by Iranians with scores to settle, but leaving now means that Iran will be able to exert more influence in Iraq, the primary reason we remained in the first place.

It is a defeat plain and simple.

He picked up the pieces left by the preceding administration as best he could. I suspect that is what really annoys you the most.

No, the thing that annoys them is not only did they pick up the pieces, but Obama actually got "mission accomplished".

They're even more pissed that Libya worked out so well. It was much cheaper and didn't cost 1 American life (unlike Iraq).

 

[bodecea]

It is a diplomatic defeat and a tactical defeat because not only couldn't we assure that our troops would be safe from unfair prosecution by Iranians with scores to settle, but leaving now means that Iran will be able to exert more influence in Iraq, the primary reason we remained in the first place.

It is a defeat plain and simple.

He picked up the pieces left by the preceding administration as best he could. I suspect that is what really annoys you the most.

No, the thing that annoys them is not only did they pick up the pieces, but Obama actually got "mission accomplished".

They're even more pissed that Libya worked out so well. It was much cheaper and didn't cost 1 American life (unlike Iraq).

Well, we saw the gnashing of teeth that went on when the SEALS got OBL.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yeah.......and now Kaddafy is dead, the GOP wants the Americans to thank the French and the Australians.

Wonder if they actually realize the Hellfire missle that took out his convoy was under US control?

 

[mudwhistle]

But that has been one part of the mission instituted by GWB. That never changed. He authorized nothing but execute a standing order by a previous POTUS.

Still the situation is deteriorating and Obama is cutting and running before it gets out of control.

Your denial of factual history is amazing.


Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq
Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq


U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There
U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There - Yochi J. Dreazen - Politics - The Atlantic

And you're not listening.

Obama is pulling out everything. That was not a condition that Bush agreed to.(Several thousand troops were to remain)

Bush said the agreement was conditional on the recommendations of the commanders. (They want us to extend the agreement a couple more years)

Iraq is falling apart. Christians are being murdered in their chapels. Radical Islamists are running roughshod all over the country. (Soon it will become yet another theocracy based on Sharia Law)

Oh, BTW.....

Obama's attackwatch.com website sent me an email stating that the purpose of the withdrawal was to fulfill his promise to get us out of Iraq. That is the only reason.

Friend --

I'm James Kvaal, the new policy director for President Obama's 2012 campaign. You'll be hearing from me occasionally about the President's policies and those of our opponents, and how we can all help bring about change for our country.

Yesterday, we accomplished one major change when President Obama announced that all American troops in Iraq will be home before the holidays.

With that action, the Iraq war will end. And one of the President's central promises will have been kept.

Both as Americans and as supporters of President Obama, this is something for us to reflect on, and be proud of.

Watch the video of the President's announcement -- then please pass this on:

 

[kiwiman127]

The agreement is based on conditions on the ground.

Still the situation is deteriorating and Obama is cutting and running before it gets out of control.

Your denial of factual history is amazing.


Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq
Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq


U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There
U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There - Yochi J. Dreazen - Politics - The Atlantic

Prove your point. The links I provided say nothing of the sort. Links?

 

[CMike]

Obama is a diplomatic idiot.

And that Afghanistan said it would side with Pakistan if the US attacked Pakistan, shows how the Afghani government has no respect for Obumler. I can imagine Afghanistan saying such a think publically when Pres. Bush was prez.

This was from one of YOUR articles.


From your article:

Iraq Demands 'Clear Timeline' for U.S. Troop Withdrawal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com


"We have said that this is a condition-driven process," he added, suggesting that the departure schedule could be modified if the security situation changed.

...President Bush has steadfastly refused to accept any timetable for bringing U.S. troops home. Last month, however, Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki agreed to set a "general time horizon" for a U.S. departure.

...But U.S. officials insist there is no agreement on specific dates. Both the American and Iraqi officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks are ongoing. Iraq's Shiite-led government believes a withdrawal schedule is essential to win parliamentary approval."

The agreement is based on conditions on the ground.

Your denial of factual history is amazing.


Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq
Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq


U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There
U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There - Yochi J. Dreazen - Politics - The Atlantic

Prove your point. The links I provided say nothing of the sort. Links?

 

[CMike]

What annoys me is that he is a disaster and a danger to America.

Now Iran, Al Qaida, and the shittes, are waiting until American forces leave so they can control the government.

Great work Obumbler

Given that the US successfully overthrew Hussein, I don't think it is fair to say we were "defeated". It might be fair to say that we "failed". Certainly, we failed to halt a major WMD program.

But even if we concede that the overall intervention was in Iraq, I'm not sure how one could argue that Obama's command was a failure. I'm not sure if any of Obama's stated goals in Iraq weren't met-- the main one was to withdraw the troops, preferably sooner than this. If you look at Politifact's count on Obama's campaign promises, it lists only one goal for Iraq, which has been kept: PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about Military. Obama might have failed to do what you wanted to do, but he seems to have been able to largely do what he said he would (admittedly a low bar, he made many more promises about Afghanistan).

Part of the reason we are leaving now does seem to be because of the Iraqi government. When we voluntarily returned sovereignty to them in 2004 (it's been awhile, hasn't it?) we implicitly gave them the right to refuse privileges to our troops or even to order them to leave the country. That seven years later they are exercising this right, when US policy was already to withdraw troops on a similar timeline, can hardly be called a defeat.

It is a diplomatic defeat and a tactical defeat because not only couldn't we assure that our troops would be safe from unfair prosecution by Iranians with scores to settle, but leaving now means that Iran will be able to exert more influence in Iraq, the primary reason we remained in the first place.

It is a defeat plain and simple.

He picked up the pieces left by the preceding administration as best he could. I suspect that is what really annoys you the most.

 

[Sallow]

Obama said yesterday that he's pulling everyone out of Iraq.

Good. I fully support that decision. I don't agree with the timing. It should have been done 2 years ago, but that's beside the point. I'm tired of waiting for this President to decide when would be the right time to declare victory and leave the region to it's own demise.

In my opinion Obama has no business being Commander in Chief. It doesn't matter how many bad guys he claims he assassinated. He cannot win a war. He can only make it look like he's winning before withdrawing with what little honor he has left.

I figured he'd wait till next Spring but he's trying to win re-election now, not actually do the right thing.

Obama feels the time is right. 2 years ago wasn't the right time. He put off this decision for more dramatic effect. People actually think Obama is a great wartime President now and he fully intends on taking advantage of that.

In truth Obama has been a disaster in Iraq. He couldn't even negotiate immunity for our troops against Iraqi prosecution. Our troops could be snatched off of the side of the road or in a restaurant and charged with murder or mayhem pretty much at the whims of the host country. This is why we're leaving, not because the mission is over.

He says now is the time to get back to the business of fixing the economy.

Excuse me, but wasn't that your number one goal this Summer????

Oh, yeah, right. Now is the right time.

His only hope is that once we leave the folks he leaves behind don't come under attack by peaceful protesters in a manner reminiscent of the Iranian Hostage situation.

Cross your fingers Barry.

Bush made this clusterfuck. The whole fucking thing. From pulling an American installed rogue secular strongman to putting in a theocratic terrorist group that backs Iran.

Islamic Dawa Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's no good way out. There's only one way..

And that's out.

 

[CMike]

Clinton made this cluster fuck.

By responding with impotent responses or not at all to major terrorist attacks, he encouraged terrorists to attack the US.

Fortunately, he didn't count on Pres. Bush taking the fight to him.

It was never done before.

Obama said yesterday that he's pulling everyone out of Iraq.

Good. I fully support that decision. I don't agree with the timing. It should have been done 2 years ago, but that's beside the point. I'm tired of waiting for this President to decide when would be the right time to declare victory and leave the region to it's own demise.

In my opinion Obama has no business being Commander in Chief. It doesn't matter how many bad guys he claims he assassinated. He cannot win a war. He can only make it look like he's winning before withdrawing with what little honor he has left.

I figured he'd wait till next Spring but he's trying to win re-election now, not actually do the right thing.

Obama feels the time is right. 2 years ago wasn't the right time. He put off this decision for more dramatic effect. People actually think Obama is a great wartime President now and he fully intends on taking advantage of that.

In truth Obama has been a disaster in Iraq. He couldn't even negotiate immunity for our troops against Iraqi prosecution. Our troops could be snatched off of the side of the road or in a restaurant and charged with murder or mayhem pretty much at the whims of the host country. This is why we're leaving, not because the mission is over.

He says now is the time to get back to the business of fixing the economy.

Excuse me, but wasn't that your number one goal this Summer????

Oh, yeah, right. Now is the right time.

His only hope is that once we leave the folks he leaves behind don't come under attack by peaceful protesters in a manner reminiscent of the Iranian Hostage situation.

Cross your fingers Barry.



Bush made this clusterfuck. The whole fucking thing. From pulling an American installed rogue secular strongman to putting in a theocratic terrorist group that backs Iran.

Islamic Dawa Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's no good way out. There's only one way..

And that's out.

 

[Too Tall]

um.....we have been planning to leave since Bush, Obama used Bushes timetable.

all i see here is more whining.

Untrue..

Prove it's Bush's timetable.

Bush said before he left that it would depend on military commander's recommendations, not political expediency. No set timetable was ever made.

Apparently Obama has gone around the recommendations of his commanders.

He couldn't exert any influence on the ongoing negotiations for us to remain, so he's throwing up his hands and walking out.....putting a positive spin on the situation.

The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: "Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq") is a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States. It establishes that U.S. combat forces will withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011, subject to possible further negotiations which could delay withdrawal and a referendum scheduled for mid-2009 in Iraq which may require U.S. forces to completely leave by the middle of 2010. The pact requires criminal charges for holding prisoners over 24 hours, and requires a warrant for searches of homes and buildings that are not related to combat. U.S. contractors working for U.S. forces will be subject to Iraqi criminal law, while contractors working for the State Department and other U.S. agencies may retain their immunity. If U.S. forces commit still undecided "major premeditated felonies" while off-duty and off-base, they will be subject to the still undecided procedures laid out by a joint U.S.-Iraq committee if the U.S. certifies the forces were off-duty.

U.S.

 

[Sallow]

Clinton made this cluster fuck.

By responding with impotent responses or not at all to major terrorist attacks, he encouraged terrorists to attack the US.

Fortunately, he didn't count on Pres. Bush taking the fight to him.

It was never done before.

Oh bullshit. Clinton was the first one to recognize that Osama Bin Laden was a terrorist. And that's after Carter, Reagan, and Poppa Bush funded his little "proof of concept" in Afghanistan against the Soviets. The Republicans were the one that refused to back Spook Ops to off the guy because the CIA wouldn't certify he was behind Khobar..or anything for that matter. That left Clinton with Missiles. And that's not a great way to get anyone.

Be that as it may..Bush failed to get the the guy with the whole fucking world backing him.

Instead..he went to Iraq.

And that was a clusterfuck.

 

[kiwiman127]

Obama is a diplomatic idiot.

And that Afghanistan said it would side with Pakistan if the US attacked Pakistan, shows how the Afghani government has no respect for Obumler. I can imagine Afghanistan saying such a think publically when Pres. Bush was prez.

This was from one of YOUR articles.


From your article:

Iraq Demands 'Clear Timeline' for U.S. Troop Withdrawal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com


"We have said that this is a condition-driven process," he added, suggesting that the departure schedule could be modified if the security situation changed.

...President Bush has steadfastly refused to accept any timetable for bringing U.S. troops home. Last month, however, Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki agreed to set a "general time horizon" for a U.S. departure.

...But U.S. officials insist there is no agreement on specific dates. Both the American and Iraqi officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks are ongoing. Iraq's Shiite-led government believes a withdrawal schedule is essential to win parliamentary approval."

The agreement is based on conditions on the ground.

Prove your point. The links I provided say nothing of the sort. Links?

Yes, for a while Bush pushed to have troops remain there after Demember 31, 2011. But he gave in to the Iraqi government's hardline objections.
Even "Right Wing News" states that the date for complete withdrawl was finalized the the Bush Administration.
From their website:

" President Barack Obama told disabled veterans in Atlanta on Monday that he was fulfilling a campaign promise by ending U.S. combat operations in Iraq “on schedule,” by Aug. 31.

But the timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops in Iraq was decided during the Bush administration with the signing of the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) by U.S. and Iraq officials on Nov. 16, 2008. The Iraqi parliament signed SOFA on Nov. 27, 2008.

The agreement, which had been in negotiations since 2007, set a timetable calling for most U.S. troops to leave Iraqi towns and cities by June 30, 2009, with about 50,000 troops left in place until the final withdrawal of all U.S. military forces by Dec. 31, 2011."

Obama Takes Credit For Bush’s Iraq Withdrawal Timeline | Right Wing News

Does the Bush White House announcement say anything other?

Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq

White House News
En Español
Strategic Framework Agreement
Security Agreement
In Focus: Iraq
"Earlier today, in another sign of progress, Iraq's Council of Representatives approved two agreements with the United States, a Strategic Framework Agreement and a Security Agreement, often called a Status of Forces Agreement or SOFA. The Strategic Framework Agreement sets the foundation for a long-term bilateral relationship between our two countries, and the Security Agreement addresses our presence, activities, and withdrawal from Iraq. Today's vote affirms the growth of Iraq's democracy and increasing ability to secure itself. We look forward to a swift approval by Iraq's Presidency Council.

Two years ago, this day seemed unlikely - but the success of the surge and the courage of the Iraqi people set the conditions for these two agreements to be negotiated and approved by the Iraqi parliament. The improved conditions on the ground and the parliamentary approval of these two agreements serve as a testament to the Iraqi, Coalition, and American men and women, both military and civilian, who paved the way for this day.

As the two agreements move to Iraq's Presidency Council for final approval, we congratulate the members of the Council of Representatives for coming together to approve these historic agreements that will serve the shared and enduring interests of both our countries and the region."

Statement by the President on Agreements with Iraq

Why some people can't accept facts is beyond me? In the end, it was George W Bush's decision and that can't be proved that wrong!

 

[rightwinger]

Might wanna compare Obama's foreign policy with the Bush doctrine sometime.

Obama is actually getting the terrorists

 

[ABikerSailor]

Might wanna compare Obama's foreign policy with the Bush doctrine sometime.

Obama is actually getting the terrorists

EXACTLY! That is why the GOP is trying to hand out the accolades to everyone BUT him.

 

[High_Gravity]

Pulling troops out of a country is not as easy as alot of people think.

 

[kiwiman127]

Pulling troops out of a country is not as easy as alot of people think.

Well, it's been in the works for over 2 1/2 years. One would think the Pentagon had some sort of contribution to the date set. Maybe the Pentagon didn't take in account the fact that it's a bureaucracy working with a bureaucratic task?

 

[CMike]

Might wanna compare Obama's foreign policy with the Bush doctrine sometime.

Obama is actually getting the terrorists

Thanks to what Bush put in place.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Might wanna compare Obama's foreign policy with the Bush doctrine sometime.

Obama is actually getting the terrorists

Thanks to what Bush put in place.

Really? Jr. thought that OBL was no longer a problem around 2004. He also helped the leadership of Pakistan to keep him hidden.

Obama did a whole different thing, and kept that asshole Karzai out of the loop, when Jr. let him fuck him over repeatedly.

Nope.......Jr. never did any real action to get the terrorists.