Obama Campaign Ad....A lie.

[JoeB131]

I am not sure of you main point, but one thing you bring up is something I'd like to learn more about. A couple of people were haveing this discussion the other day and one of them intonated that Bain did not just buy companies, but purchased companies that were in tough circumstances. I don't know if that is true or not.

If it is, then a 22% failure rate translates to a 78% turnaround rate, which in the corporate world is pretty good.

I honestly don't know if that is the case or not in total.

I do know that the word in Kansas City was that GTS was headed to the dumpster unless someone tried something.

A couple of things on that.

First, Romney had a 78% success rate during the 1990's, when the economy was booming and frankly, you had to be nearly retarded to screw up in business. People were literally making businesses out of nothing. (See the Dot-Com boom).

Which brings up another point- Romney really hasn't had a job other than running for President in the last six years. He doesn't want to talk about the four years before that (Governor of Massachusetts). So really, his last "work relavent experience" is from 2001.

Seriously?

Secondly, maybe GST Steel would have gone under. But it seems the actions that Bain took, extracting millions in "Management fees", loading the company down with debt to pay bigger dividends, and so on, really accellerated the company's demise. And this is the same crap they pulled at AmPad, which had 11 million in debt when Bain acquired them and nearly 400 million dollars in debt when they filed for bankruptcy in 1999.

This is Gorden Gecco on Wall Street.

 

[Listening]

I am not sure of you main point, but one thing you bring up is something I'd like to learn more about. A couple of people were haveing this discussion the other day and one of them intonated that Bain did not just buy companies, but purchased companies that were in tough circumstances. I don't know if that is true or not.

If it is, then a 22% failure rate translates to a 78% turnaround rate, which in the corporate world is pretty good.

I honestly don't know if that is the case or not in total.

I do know that the word in Kansas City was that GTS was headed to the dumpster unless someone tried something.

A couple of things on that.

First, Romney had a 78% success rate during the 1990's, when the economy was booming and frankly, you had to be nearly retarded to screw up in business. People were literally making businesses out of nothing. (See the Dot-Com boom).

Which brings up another point- Romney really hasn't had a job other than running for President in the last six years. He doesn't want to talk about the four years before that (Governor of Massachusetts). So really, his last "work relavent experience" is from 2001.

Seriously?

Secondly, maybe GST Steel would have gone under. But it seems the actions that Bain took, extracting millions in "Management fees", loading the company down with debt to pay bigger dividends, and so on, really accellerated the company's demise. And this is the same crap they pulled at AmPad, which had 11 million in debt when Bain acquired them and nearly 400 million dollars in debt when they filed for bankruptcy in 1999.

This is Gorden Gecco on Wall Street.

One of the articles discusses how private equity firms aggressively use debt. And that was the case for GTS. The point was that they didn't extract 100 million from the company....most of that went back into the company which wasn't doing all that badly for a while.

Things turned bad for the steel industry and it became a victim.

As to "anyone"....well, I don't work in that world so I don't know. What I do know is that he made a bunch of money and it seems to have pissed off a lot of folks.

 

[Listening]

and so is their BS propaganda machine.

Thanks to JoeB:


Blah, blah, blah.

The point is, Bain's Modus opperendi had been established by Romney. Romney was in charge when they acquired GST and began the policy of loading it down with debt to pay themselves big bonuses.

Let's go ahead and concede the point that this steel mill, like the entire American Steel industry, was struggling. It has been since the 1970's, really.

That isn't really the point. The point was they took over a vulnerable company and looted it. And while Bain walked away with a 16 million dollar profit, the Federal GOvernment had to step in and fund their pension plan to the tune of 44 million.

This is really the worst kind of Corporate Welfare.

You are an asshole.

You don't read.

You don't reason.

I am afraid Joe was wrong about "looting" the company. As shown, it is Bain's best interest for companies to be vibrant and alive. They didn't make anything on this compared to most.

This company was in trouble and it needed help. Bain took a chance on them. It didn't work out. The whole pension thing needs to be documented, but right now it appears the pension fund was in trouble long before Bain arrived.

Shove it Franco and move your sorry ignorant tripe spouting ass to Cuba where it belongs.

 

[HUGGY]

Well, some would say so....

I live in the Kansas City area and this steel mill had always been a mess.

Bain bought it and it went under. 750 jobs lost.

And Obama is pointing the finger at Romney.

The problem: Romney left Bain two years before the steel mill went under.

Here is an article that might help shed some light on the subject....

FAIL: Obama Ad Attacks Romney for Bain Bought Company That Laid People Off

But there is another major problem with linking the end of GST to Mitt Romney's work with Bain. Romney wasn't with Bain when GST went down. Romney had left Bain Capital in 1999, two years before GST's 2001 collapse.

But there was at least one guy linked to today's political landscape that was still at Bain when GST went down the tubes. Obama donor and a Bain managing director Jonathan Levine was working at Bain when GST went belly up.

So, the only person that worked for Bain when GST died was an Obama bundler that raised over $100,000 for Obama.

Curiously enough, that fact wasn't in the Obama ad video, either.

Then there's this. Even former Obama economic adviser Steve Rattner thinks the ad is "unfair."

*****************************

And when you see what they have to say about Union mandated overtime....it'll make you laugh. We hear the same thing happen all the time at the car plants in Claycomo County. The average worker makes 80 to 100 K per year doing a lot of B.S. jobs to get a certain amount of overtime because of the unions.

But, lets stay with the fact that Obama runs this ad and somehow thinks they can pin it on Romney.

Let's see Franco pull his head out of his ass and say something on this one....

Dupe.
Pubcrappe
Moron
Lol

Well, that is about the extent of his vocab.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I]Baby crying - YouTube[/ame]

 

[HUGGY]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhQlnx1NSUw]OBAMA: ROMNEY A 'VAMPIRE' - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Listening]

A bump for Romeny's time at Bain.

Suck on it libs.

 

[JoeB131]

One of the articles discusses how private equity firms aggressively use debt. And that was the case for GTS. The point was that they didn't extract 100 million from the company....most of that went back into the company which wasn't doing all that badly for a while.

Things turned bad for the steel industry and it became a victim.

As to "anyone"....well, I don't work in that world so I don't know. What I do know is that he made a bunch of money and it seems to have pissed off a lot of folks.

It strikes me that if you borrow a shitload of money, pay yourself 12 million in management fees on what was for you an 8 million dollar investment, and then let the company go into bankruptcy, leaving the pension fund broke, the lenders holding the bag and you walk away and talk about what a great businessman you are...

I have to ask? WHy is this even legal?

 

[mudwhistle]

Well, some would say so....

I live in the Kansas City area and this steel mill had always been a mess.

Bain bought it and it went under. 750 jobs lost.

And Obama is pointing the finger at Romney.

The problem: Romney left Bain two years before the steel mill went under.

Here is an article that might help shed some light on the subject....

FAIL: Obama Ad Attacks Romney for Bain Bought Company That Laid People Off

But there is another major problem with linking the end of GST to Mitt Romney's work with Bain. Romney wasn't with Bain when GST went down. Romney had left Bain Capital in 1999, two years before GST's 2001 collapse.

But there was at least one guy linked to today's political landscape that was still at Bain when GST went down the tubes. Obama donor and a Bain managing director Jonathan Levine was working at Bain when GST went belly up.

So, the only person that worked for Bain when GST died was an Obama bundler that raised over $100,000 for Obama.

Curiously enough, that fact wasn't in the Obama ad video, either.

Then there's this. Even former Obama economic adviser Steve Rattner thinks the ad is "unfair."

*****************************

And when you see what they have to say about Union mandated overtime....it'll make you laugh. We hear the same thing happen all the time at the car plants in Claycomo County. The average worker makes 80 to 100 K per year doing a lot of B.S. jobs to get a certain amount of overtime because of the unions.

But, lets stay with the fact that Obama runs this ad and somehow thinks they can pin it on Romney.

Let's see Franco pull his head out of his ass and say something on this one....

Dupe.
Pubcrappe
Moron
Lol

Well, that is about the extent of his vocab.

It's an election, and you are calling out a lie in a campaign ad? Where have you been? This shit goes on every election from both sides. Remember Bush vs. Kerry? Can you even come close to counting all the lies that took place in ads for and against both candidates? I'm sure you will now tell me that Romney's people would never lie in an ad about Obama, right?

Usually at the local level is it so obvious. The national level isn't always this obvious. The problem with telling a lie when all the cameras are focused on you is that it highlights your own dishonesty.

Obama is counting on hatred for the GOP to get folks to say it doesn't matter he's a lying bastard. After all the GOP is for Dirty Air, Dirty Water, they are Vampires who want to suck you dry (forget the fact that Democrats want to do that too), so why worry about something as trivial as being caught in a bold-faced lie.

 

[JoeB131]

Usually at the local level is it so obvious. The national level isn't always this obvious. The problem with telling a lie when all the cameras are focused on you is that it highlights your own dishonesty.

Obama is counting on hatred for the GOP to get folks to say it doesn't matter he's a lying bastard. After all the GOP is for Dirty Air, Dirty Water, they are Vampires who want to suck you dry (forget the fact that Democrats want to do that too), so why worry about something as trivial as being caught in a bold-faced lie.

Whine SNivel Cry.

You "conservatives" made a Faustian bargain with the Vampires, and now you are whinging because it's coming due.

 

[Big Fitz]

Usually at the local level is it so obvious. The national level isn't always this obvious. The problem with telling a lie when all the cameras are focused on you is that it highlights your own dishonesty.

Obama is counting on hatred for the GOP to get folks to say it doesn't matter he's a lying bastard. After all the GOP is for Dirty Air, Dirty Water, they are Vampires who want to suck you dry (forget the fact that Democrats want to do that too), so why worry about something as trivial as being caught in a bold-faced lie.

Whine SNivel Cry.

You "conservatives" made a Faustian bargain with the Vampires, and now you are whinging because it's coming due.

BBAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!

The first victim of Bain Derangement Syndrome gibbers on.

 

[Listening]

One of the articles discusses how private equity firms aggressively use debt. And that was the case for GTS. The point was that they didn't extract 100 million from the company....most of that went back into the company which wasn't doing all that badly for a while.

Things turned bad for the steel industry and it became a victim.

As to "anyone"....well, I don't work in that world so I don't know. What I do know is that he made a bunch of money and it seems to have pissed off a lot of folks.

It strikes me that if you borrow a shitload of money, pay yourself 12 million in management fees on what was for you an 8 million dollar investment, and then let the company go into bankruptcy, leaving the pension fund broke, the lenders holding the bag and you walk away and talk about what a great businessman you are...

I have to ask? WHy is this even legal?

On this point, you and I would agree....IF

things are as you described them.

And your last question is telling in that it does not seem like it would be.

So, if they are not prosecuted, it leads me to believe the story isn't as you simply described it.

 

[drsmith1072]

I'm talking from Feb '09 to Today, there is a Net LOSS of 1 million jobs.

I could post several links supporting it, but I'm sure you could post several discrediting it.
That's because this administration counts jobs differently than anyone in history.

If you have the sources them post them please.

Can you show how he counts them differently than anyone in history?

George W. Bush, R-Texas, 2001-2009
First term: +7,000 jobs
Second term: +1.3 million jobs
George W. Bush Total: 1.31 million jobs

Barack Obama, D-Ill., 2009-Present
Partial term: -1.390 million jobs lost through April 2011.
Obama Total to date: -1.390 million jobs lost.
US Presidential Election 2012: It Could Be All About Jobs | all - International Business Times

And to answer the last question:
What Is the REAL National U.S. Unemployment Rate

april of 2011?? your info is a little out of date don't you think?? Got anything more recent?

BTW your second link talks about "the real unemployment rate" but I didn't see anything in there about how "this administration counts jobs differently than anyone in history."

 

[drsmith1072]

O.K.

So we can recount.

The Obama campaign runs an ad against Mitt Romney using the closure of the GST plant in Kansas City as it's foundation. In the ad, it clearly stated that Romeny screwed the company and then took off with profits leaving 750 people out of work.

What has been pointed out is that:

Bain took over GTS in 1993. (this has been reported and can probably be trusted)

The site was a dump (this is an observation.....calling something a dump is subjective).

Bain spent over 100 million on the plant (this was Bains claim as reported).

The site did undergo some significant renovation (an observation).

Bain held onto the company going into a small recession.

Romney exits Bain operations in 1999 to take over the Olympics.

GST goes bankrupt in 2001.

A lot of other steel plants went bankrupt in 2001.

Neither Romney nor anyone at Bain (that I have read about) has been prosecuted with respect to any wrongdoing at Bain in regard to GST.

Bain helped get another steel company started in 1994. That company grew and Bain sold off it's part of that company in 2000. Here is from an article:

"It normally takes two years to make a steel plant profitable," Busse recalled. "We didn't have two years. We were running out of money."

GE Capital (GE) was interested, but CEO Jack Welch told Busse he didn't want to fund the whole thing because it would be the biggest gamble GE had ever taken on a startup.

Welch brought in Bain, which investigated the project. Busse said he met with Romney. Bain liked the deal and invested $18.3 million.

"Their general strategy is to exit early," Busse said. Bain later sold its stake for $104 million, according to a 2000 prospectus from Deutsche Bank.

The private equity firm should have held on longer. Steel Dynamics went public in November 1996, finishing its first month of trading with a split-adjusted price of 4.56 a share. The stock reached a peak of 40.92 in June 2008 for a gain of 797%.

***************************************

Now, the GTS deal is being called a corporate raid by some on this board. Corporate raiders usually buy companies, hack them to bits and sell them off. They are harvesting. Holding onto a company for a long time isn't the trademark of a corporate raider.

If you look at Bain's returns on Steel Dynamics, you see they invested 18 million to make 104 million. That is the kind of return that these firms look for.

Here is a little tidbit:

Bain Capital is a financial services company that engages in investment management. Venture capital typically involves buying a small stake in a promising start-up company and trying to help it grow and thrive. Private equity deals focus on leveraged buyouts of companies that are under heavy debt or near bankruptcy, and restructuring the troubled company’s costs, operations, and assets, which can involve anything from streamlining a company’s decision-making process to cutting some jobs, while saving others.

The Wall Street Journal did an excellent piece researching Bain’s record under Romney’s tenure. The report found that Bain recorded roughly 50% to 80% annual gains on 77 deals while Romney was CEO from 1984-1999, which experts said was among the best track records for buyout firms during that era. Romney himself earned the bulk of his $200 million-$250 million fortune during these years. So not only did he do his job and do it well, but he was pretty successful at it too.

Now this image perpetrated by the Democrats of a Gordon Gekko-type corporate raider that liquidated companies for all they were worth and screwed “the little people” over is purely absurd. Romney and Bain were anything but. They were a thoroughly respectable investment management firm that successfully discharged its responsibility of earning high returns for its investors by deploying capital in companies privately rather than by buying shares in the public market.

Setting the Record Straight On the Bain of Mitt Romney's 2012 Campaign

On the other side.....they invest in GST (supposedly over 100 million which they apparently borrowed......in an effort to upgrade the plant) and they make back 16 million (they made 12 million through the early years, as I understand it and made 4.5 million in fees...that isn't profit). And the company goes bankrupt.

But, somehow they should have augered into bankruptcy with GST. Hint: that is how good businessmen stay good businessmen. They don't ride the bomb to the target.

One question that has been raised is the pension fund:

This from an anti-Romney blog:

[Romney’s] supporters say the pension gap at the Kansas City mill was an unforeseen consequence of a falling stock market and adverse market conditions. But records show that the mill’s Bain-backed management was confronted several times about the fund’s shortfall, which, in the end, required an infusion of funds from the federal Pension Benefits Guarantee Corp.

********************************

To which I say so what ?

If Bain did something illegal (like stole the pension fund), then there should be no problem getting it fixed. A shortfall for a company that had been around for how long ? (most of those poor steelworkers in the ads show 30+ years experience.....did that shortfall show up on Bain's watch ?).

So, this is provide some kind of recap. I'll try to look it over to see what I left out.

So again you spin that what romney/bain did as a minor partner at steel dynmaics with their limited control along with the fact that they left the company BEFORE they became what they are today is something romney should deserve credit for?

And yet where GTS is concerned and how romney/bain actually ran the company so well it had to declare bancruptcy and bain still profitted you argue that romney/bain aren't at fault expecially romnet becuase he left day to day operation before they had to declare bancruptcy on bains watch?

How can you do both? Romeny gets credit for steel dynamic even though what you are praising them for occured after bain and romeny left their minor interest in the company but he doesn't deserve any blame for the company that he ran for 6 years and went bancrupt in 2001 when romeny was still a part of bain?

do you not see how ridiculously hypocritical that is?

 

[drsmith1072]

Well based on your argument that romney deserved no blame for losses that occured after he left in 1999 (your claim) then how can you give him credit for the positives that occured at a company after he left bain and after bain sold it's stake in the company?

Just where is this argument ?

I showed a clip where people give Bain credit for getting Steel Dynamics started. I just posted some additional history. I don't need to give Romney credit for anymore than what he did.

They left in 1000 about 85 million richer on 18 million invested. Even with a 7 year cost of capital calculation...that is one hell of a return. We'll just leave it there.

Did they bankrupt SD ?

Don't think so...they still seem to be humming along and singing Romney's praises.

Businessmen do business in an economy. About time we tried on in government.

More to the point: it can't be worse than the moron we have in there now.

read your own posts.

GTS : romney left before they went bancrupt he deserves no blame

steel dynamics : romeny left before they became what they are today but romney deserves credit.

That is at the core of the arguments that you have made in thsi thread.

 

[Listening]

So again you spin that what romney/bain did as a minor partner at steel dynmaics with their limited control along with the fact that they left the company BEFORE they became what they are today is something romney should deserve credit for?

Bain showed up with 18 million in 1994 and left with 104 million in 2000.

I'll let others draw their own conclusions.

What Bain didn't do was "raid" the company.

I don't recall saying he should get credit for what they became after 2000.

Are you making stuff up to argue against ?

And yet where GTS is concerned and how romney/bain actually ran the company so well it had to declare bancruptcy and bain still profitted you argue that romney/bain aren't at fault expecially romnet becuase he left day to day operation before they had to declare bancruptcy on bains watch?

Actually, it is Obama that is arguing that Romney is at fault. I didn't produce an ad that accuses him of being a vampire. So, let's be clear on whose attacking who. You can't seem to get out from Obama's skirt on this one, so I'll let you think about it a while.

It is a fact that Romney left Bain before GTS went bankrupt. All the whining by the GTS people set aside, there is no real reason given for why they went belly up. We do know that several poorly positioned steel companies got hit around the same time. We also know that Bain borrowed against GTS (something, as has been stated, that these firms do) to invest a huge amount of money to upgrade a run-down facility. Apparently, it wasn't enough or the product mix just wasn't what the market needed.....you figure it out...they went under. Bain, got back it's investment, some profit, and 4 million in fees. The left can cry all they want, but I am guessing Bain did not consider this a success. The return on Steel Dynamics was about 6 times their investment. The return on GTS was about 1 times their investment.

How can you do both? Romeny gets credit for steel dynamic even though what you are praising them for occured after bain and romeny left their minor interest in the company but he doesn't deserve any blame for the company that he ran for 6 years and went bancrupt in 2001 when romeny was still a part of bain?

do you not see how ridiculously hypocritical that is?

Besides being an ass, you seem to be ADD.

I don't ever recall giving Romney credit for anything. What I said was that Bain got involved in Steel Dynamics when they needed help and they made 86 million (if I did that right) on the deal. Are you having more issues reading. What happened after that...I have not said a word about.

I guess you answered my question (of course, why did I bother asking...of couse you are making stuff up to argue against).

So, the only thing that look ridiculous is you.

In summary:

Bain did not raid Steel Dynamics.
Bain did not raid GTS.

 

[Listening]

Well based on your argument that romney deserved no blame for losses that occured after he left in 1999 (your claim) then how can you give him credit for the positives that occured at a company after he left bain and after bain sold it's stake in the company?

Just where is this argument ?

I showed a clip where people give Bain credit for getting Steel Dynamics started. I just posted some additional history. I don't need to give Romney credit for anymore than what he did.

They left in 1000 about 85 million richer on 18 million invested. Even with a 7 year cost of capital calculation...that is one hell of a return. We'll just leave it there.

Did they bankrupt SD ?

Don't think so...they still seem to be humming along and singing Romney's praises.

Businessmen do business in an economy. About time we tried on in government.

More to the point: it can't be worse than the moron we have in there now.

read your own posts.

GTS : romney left before they went bancrupt he deserves no blame

steel dynamics : romeny left before they became what they are today but romney deserves credit.

That is at the core of the arguments that you have made in thsi thread.

Can you say HORSECRAP ?

What I have said is that Obama's ad is totally misleading.

Romeny was not around when GTS went belly up.......but the commercial is designed to put the blame squarely on him (as if he had been there to close the gates and padlock the doors).

I pointed out that the Romney camp countered with an add using Steel Dynamics as a centerpiece. Steel Dynamics itself has praised Bain for their assistance. Helloooooooo.

The bigger point being that Bain did not get in and get out. In one case they were there for six years. In another case they were there for 8. That is not a typical coporate raider activity. Raiders carve up and sell off...they usually don't invest huge amounts of money (leveraged or otherwise.....someone still has to be paid back).

Get a life Smith. Obama is a failure.

Now he is going to muckrake the campaign and destroy what little dignity he might retain when this is over.

 

[drsmith1072]

So again you spin that what romney/bain did as a minor partner at steel dynmaics with their limited control along with the fact that they left the company BEFORE they became what they are today is something romney should deserve credit for?

Bain showed up with 18 million in 1994 and left with 104 million in 2000.

I'll let others draw their own conclusions.

What Bain didn't do was "raid" the company.

and I never said that did raid this SD and they couldn't based on how they were a minoirty interest in the company.

I don't recall saying he should get credit for what they became after 2000.

Are you making stuff up to argue against ?

nope and here is your attempt to give credit to romney even though you claim it's "romney's counter" it doesn't hcange the fact that you are trying to use it to give romney credit for things that occured AFTER he and bain left SD

Here is a Romney counter:

Steel Dynamics Chairman Hails Romney, Bain Capital For Early Funding, Thousands Of Jobs - Investors.com

Since emerging as the Republican front-runner, Mitt Romney has been pilloried as a corporate raider and greedy destroyer of working-class jobs because he once headed private equity firm Bain Capital.

A new video by a political action committee with ties to rival presidential candidate Newt Gingrich portrays Romney as someone who plundered companies for their assets, left them in debt and ruined countless lives of ordinary Americans.

That's not the view at Fort Wayne, Ind.-based Steel Dynamics (STLD), where Bain invested just as the company was getting off the ground in 1994. Today, Steel Dynamics is the fifth-largest U.S. steel maker, employing 6,437 workers, according to Chairman and just-retired CEO Keith Busse.

That number includes about 4,000 new jobs, with the rest coming via acquisitions.

But it goes further than that, Busse says. For every steel worker directly employed, there are three or four jobs created by a network of suppliers. He estimates the total employment base as the result of Steel Dynamics' success at around 25,000.

Oops I guess you forget that one.

And yet where GTS is concerned and how romney/bain actually ran the company so well it had to declare bancruptcy and bain still profitted you argue that romney/bain aren't at fault expecially romnet becuase he left day to day operation before they had to declare bancruptcy on bains watch?

Actually, it is Obama that is arguing that Romney is at fault.

and despite the fact that you have argued GTS is not romney's fault you have simultaneously argued that SD and their success after romney and bain left are a credit to romney.

I didn't produce an ad that accuses him of being a vampire. So, let's be clear on whose attacking who. You can't seem to get out from Obama's skirt on this one, so I'll let you think about it a while.

Nice attempt to insult me because your arguments are dishoenst and contradictory but your insult doesn't change the fact aht you are trying to have it both ways.

It is a fact that Romney left Bain before GTS went bankrupt. All the whining by the GTS people set aside, there is no real reason given for why they went belly up. We do know that several poorly positioned steel companies got hit around the same time. We also know that Bain borrowed against GTS (something, as has been stated, that these firms do) to invest a huge amount of money to upgrade a run-down facility. Apparently, it wasn't enough or the product mix just wasn't what the market needed.....you figure it out...they went under. Bain, got back it's investment, some profit, and 4 million in fees. The left can cry all they want, but I am guessing Bain did not consider this a success. The return on Steel Dynamics was about 6 times their investment. The return on GTS was about 1 times their investment.

so now you are trying to claim that you didn't say that romney didn't deserved the blame even as you repeat said argument?
Don't you find it interesting that they invested in two steel companies at the same time and the one that they actually controlled went under while the other prospered? Did they kill one to help the other? We may never know.

How can you do both? Romeny gets credit for steel dynamic even though what you are praising them for occured after bain and romeny left their minor interest in the company but he doesn't deserve any blame for the company that he ran for 6 years and went bancrupt in 2001 when romeny was still a part of bain?

do you not see how ridiculously hypocritical that is?

Besides being an ass, you seem to be ADD.

I don't ever recall giving Romney credit for anything. What I said was that Bain got involved in Steel Dynamics when they needed help and they made 86 million (if I did that right) on the deal. Are you having more issues reading. What happened after that...I have not said a word about.

I guess you answered my question (of course, why did I bother asking...of couse you are making stuff up to argue against).

So, the only thing that look ridiculous is you.

In summary:

Bain did not raid Steel Dynamics.
Bain did not raid GTS.

well you need to check your recollections because you did and the proof is above.

how is quoting your posts to show you as being contradictory a negative reflection on me?? LOL

Why is it wrong for obama to hold romney accountable for things that happened at GTS after romney left when romney tries to take credit for this that occured at SD after he left? If one is wrong shouldn't both be wrong?

 

[drsmith1072]

Just where is this argument ?

I showed a clip where people give Bain credit for getting Steel Dynamics started. I just posted some additional history. I don't need to give Romney credit for anymore than what he did.

They left in 1000 about 85 million richer on 18 million invested. Even with a 7 year cost of capital calculation...that is one hell of a return. We'll just leave it there.

Did they bankrupt SD ?

Don't think so...they still seem to be humming along and singing Romney's praises.

Businessmen do business in an economy. About time we tried on in government.

More to the point: it can't be worse than the moron we have in there now.

read your own posts.

GTS : romney left before they went bancrupt he deserves no blame

steel dynamics : romeny left before they became what they are today but romney deserves credit.

That is at the core of the arguments that you have made in thsi thread.

Can you say HORSECRAP ?

What I have said is that Obama's ad is totally misleading.

Romeny was not around when GTS went belly up.......but the commercial is designed to put the blame squarely on him (as if he had been there to close the gates and padlock the doors).

meaning that you are arguing that romney cannot be held responsibile for things that occured at GTS after he left the day to day coontrol of bain. You said it clear as day right there.

I pointed out that the Romney camp countered with an add using Steel Dynamics as a centerpiece. Steel Dynamics itself has praised Bain for their assistance. Helloooooooo.

The bigger point being that Bain did not get in and get out. In one case they were there for six years. In another case they were there for 8. That is not a typical coporate raider activity. Raiders carve up and sell off...they usually don't invest huge amounts of money (leveraged or otherwise.....someone still has to be paid back).

Now you are using SD and romeny propaganda to "counter" and try to give romney credit for something that occured at SD after romney and bain left? Got it. Funny how you claim I am wrong and then agree with me. LOL

Get a life Smith. Obama is a failure.

Now he is going to muckrake the campaign and destroy what little dignity he might retain when this is over.

blah blah thanks for the baseless opinions. LOL

 

[Listening]

well you need to check your recollections because you did and the proof is above.

how is quoting your posts to show you as being contradictory a negative reflection on me?? LOL

Why is it wrong for obama to hold romney accountable for things that happened at GTS after romney left when romney tries to take credit for this that occured at SD after he left? If one is wrong shouldn't both be wrong?

There is no proof in the posts above. Only your mindless desire to see Obama get out of this election with his skin still in tact.

Sorry, but Obama ran an ad that was patent bull. All the twisting in the world on your part won't change that fact.

You've made the same claim six times now and been show how you were wrong.

Somehow the definition of insanity is starting to show up here.

 

[Listening]

Now you are using SD and romeny propaganda to "counter" and try to give romney credit for something that occured at SD after romney and bain left? Got it. Funny how you claim I am wrong and then agree with me. LOL

I can only guess that this is an attempt on your part to prove the axiom that if you say a lie enough times, people think it is true.

What is funny is how you can't read anything that does not fit your view of Obama as the guy who will continue to keep you afloat.