Obama Busts a cap in Keynesian Economics

[CrusaderFrank]

I will give Obama credit for killing Keynesian economic theory. The absurd theory, the darling of Progressives everywhere, was that Gubbamint needs to deficit spend during economic downturn in order to "prime the pump" of the economy.

Nobody that's ever earned a paycheck in the private sector takes this theory seriously. Moreover it has failed every time its been attempted, most recently Failed Leaders Obama's Stimulus.

"Economist" Paul Krugman said that the Failed Stimulus failed only because it was too small, it needed to be at least twice as large. Yes, that's right, we needed to blow a hole in the Federal budget a trillion bigger than where we are in order to really Really REALLY AND TRULY show how it fails every time.

Keynesian Economics, RIP

And unlike where he had to share credit with the Navy Seal Team's hit on bin Laden, Obama gets all the credit for this kill.

Well done, Barry

 

[Neubarth]

So was HOOVER right?

 

[ShackledNation]

So was HOOVER right?

LOL! Hoover engaged in Keynesian economics. In fact, he was involved so much in government spending and bailouts that FDR called him a SOCIALIST when they were campaigning. It is a myth perpetuated by the elites that Hoover did nothing. Hoover was the most interventionist president we had ever seen...until FDR.

Here is a quote from Keynes about Hoover in his 1919 best-seller The Economic Consequences of Peace:

"Hoover was the only man who emerged from the ordeal in Paris with an enhanced repuation....his eyes steadily fixed on the true and essential facts of the European situation...precisely that atmosphere of reality, knowledge, magnanimity, and disinterestedness which, if they had been found in other quarters, also, would have given us the Good Peace."

Here is a quote from Hoover, the fall of 1932 on the campaign trail.
"We might have done nothing. That would have been utter ruin. Instead we met the situation with proposals to private business and to Congress of the most gigantic program of economic defense and counterattack ever evolved in the history of the Republic. We put it into action…. No government in Washington has hitherto considered that it held so broad a responsibility for leadership in such times…. For the first time in the history of depression, dividends, profits, and the cost of living, have been reduced before wages have suffered…. They were maintained until the cost of living had decreased and the profits had practically vanished. They are now the highest real wages in the world.

Creating new jobs and giving to the whole system a new breath of life; nothing has ever been devised in our history which has done more for … "the common run of men and women." Some of the reactionary economists urged that we should allow the liquidation to take its course until we had found bottom…. We determined that we would not follow the advice of the bitter-end liquidationists and see the whole body of debtors of the United States brought to bankruptcy and the savings of our people brought to destruction."



In total contrast, in the depression of 1920–1921, the federal government and Federal Reserve really did implement the harsh measures that Keynesians erroneously attribute to Hoover and company. And yet, as its name suggests, this earlier depression was over quite quickly, and paved the way for the Roaring Twenties.

LEARN YOUR HISTORY!

 

[mascale]

The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, J. M. Keynes, February, 1936: Not only came after the frozen spending levels of 1931, which created 1932: But even came after 1933, 1934, and 1935.

Keynes had a theory of liquidity, and spending is all about Keynes.

More like Herbert Hoover are the Balanced Budgeteers of Conservative, Republican, state and local government. Instead of participating in the recovery, from the Great Recession, they have thumbed their noses at the U. S. economic recovery attempt: Creating 500,000 job losses, instead.

The Obama spending slowed that down, and sparked 2.0 mil. jobs despite the Balanced Budgeteers, created so far.

The Republican Party despisement of Old and New Testament fundamentals even brought about the housing market collapse. Exodus 22:25-27, even comes before Herbert Hoover, even in math: "If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him."

ARM's were bad for spending, and now for balanced budgets: At the same time!

Keynes likely did better did understand the U. S. tax-basis, of the state and local economies: Which need spending. Customers in the stores create a tax base, and revenue. Public Works Construction types of Employment are supposed to happen. Pawlenty wants to employ Ph.d.'s in more research, by contrast: Like the Defense Engineers of the Reagan Debacled economy.

Keynesian economics is all about spending. Every Republican Household in the United States is now opposed to all the spending! Not even Nixon was opposed to all the spending. . .espcially in cash, in brief cases and suitcases.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Lands of Many Nations--accept spending even 24/7!)

 

[signelect]

Mascales logic defies description,

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So was HOOVER right?

LOL! Hoover engaged in Keynesian economics. In fact, he was involved so much in government spending and bailouts that FDR called him a SOCIALIST when they were campaigning. It is a myth perpetuated by the elites that Hoover did nothing. Hoover was the most interventionist president we had ever seen...until FDR.

Here is a quote from Keynes about Hoover in his 1919 best-seller The Economic Consequences of Peace:

"Hoover was the only man who emerged from the ordeal in Paris with an enhanced repuation....his eyes steadily fixed on the true and essential facts of the European situation...precisely that atmosphere of reality, knowledge, magnanimity, and disinterestedness which, if they had been found in other quarters, also, would have given us the Good Peace."

Here is a quote from Hoover, the fall of 1932 on the campaign trail.
"We might have done nothing. That would have been utter ruin. Instead we met the situation with proposals to private business and to Congress of the most gigantic program of economic defense and counterattack ever evolved in the history of the Republic. We put it into action…. No government in Washington has hitherto considered that it held so broad a responsibility for leadership in such times…. For the first time in the history of depression, dividends, profits, and the cost of living, have been reduced before wages have suffered…. They were maintained until the cost of living had decreased and the profits had practically vanished. They are now the highest real wages in the world.

Creating new jobs and giving to the whole system a new breath of life; nothing has ever been devised in our history which has done more for … "the common run of men and women." Some of the reactionary economists urged that we should allow the liquidation to take its course until we had found bottom…. We determined that we would not follow the advice of the bitter-end liquidationists and see the whole body of debtors of the United States brought to bankruptcy and the savings of our people brought to destruction."



In total contrast, in the depression of 1920–1921, the federal government and Federal Reserve really did implement the harsh measures that Keynesians erroneously attribute to Hoover and company. And yet, as its name suggests, this earlier depression was over quite quickly, and paved the way for the Roaring Twenties.

LEARN YOUR HISTORY!

I should resurrect my FDR Thread, you'd love it

 

[ShackledNation]

The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, J. M. Keynes, February, 1936: Not only came after the frozen spending levels of 1931, which created 1932: But even came after 1933, 1934, and 1935.

Keynes had a theory of liquidity, and spending is all about Keynes.

More like Herbert Hoover are the Balanced Budgeteers of Conservative, Republican, state and local government. Instead of participating in the recovery, from the Great Recession, they have thumbed their noses at the U. S. economic recovery attempt: Creating 500,000 job losses, instead.

The Obama spending slowed that down, and sparked 2.0 mil. jobs despite the Balanced Budgeteers, created so far.

The Republican Party despisement of Old and New Testament fundamentals even brought about the housing market collapse. Exodus 22:25-27, even comes before Herbert Hoover, even in math: "If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him."

ARM's were bad for spending, and now for balanced budgets: At the same time!

Keynes likely did better did understand the U. S. tax-basis, of the state and local economies: Which need spending. Customers in the stores create a tax base, and revenue. Public Works Construction types of Employment are supposed to happen. Pawlenty wants to employ Ph.d.'s in more research, by contrast: Like the Defense Engineers of the Reagan Debacled economy.

Keynesian economics is all about spending. Every Republican Household in the United States is now opposed to all the spending! Not even Nixon was opposed to all the spending. . .espcially in cash, in brief cases and suitcases.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Lands of Many Nations--accept spending even 24/7!)

Did you even read my sources? lol. Herbert hoover passed stimulus spending packages and expanded government.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So was HOOVER right?

HARDING was right.

 

[mascale]

Quaker Herbert Hoover actually famously relied heavily on volunteer efforts in the response to the downturn. The American Friends Service Committee was asked to coordinate relief efforts in several states. 1931 Federal Spending duplicated 1930 federal spending.

Usually, subsequent that experience, state and local governments have been helpful in economic recovery. They have not been helpful in this one. There would typically be 800,000 of those jobs created by now. There have instead been 500,000 job losses.

State and local governments bleeding jobs | Reuters

There are more job losses yet to come, at the state and local level.

It is only starting to be noticed in the other reporting.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Pharoah's army chase Hebs to Red Sea...which was actually restricted(?). . .Like Ivy League(?)!)

 

[ShackledNation]

Quaker Herbert Hoover actually famously relied heavily on volunteer efforts in the response to the downturn. The American Friends Service Committee as asked to coordinate relief efforts in several states. 1931 Federal Spending duplicated 1930 federal spending.

Usually, subsequent that experience, state and local governments have been helpful in economic recovery. They have not been helpful in this one. There would typically be 800,000 of those jobs created by now. There have instead been 500,000 job losses.

State and local governments bleeding jobs | Reuters

There are more job losses yet to come, at the state and local level.

It is only starting to be noticed in the other reporting.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Pharoah's army chase Hebs to Red Sea...which was actually restricted(?). . .Like Ivy League(?)!)

Stop. You keep vomiting these quotes without responding to anything. Hoover raised taxes, doubled spending, passed bailouts, and passed the largest tariff in US history, crippling business and the free market. FDR called him a socialist because of it.

 

[mascale]

Socialist Is Not Keynesian. Socialists are an International Movement which tends to replace sales-for-profit with a needs-related economy. Bill Gates has $36.0 bil, for example, but the need for it is not entirely clear.

Hoover was expansionary because the economy was sour. The role of all levels of government was relatively small, however. The federal spendings portion of GDP at 4% came about mostly because GDP tanked. The 1930 and 1931 spending levels were the same. GOP Smoot-Hawley became a famous bad idea.

http://www.ncsl.org/print/fiscal/STATEFINANCEGREATDEPRESSION.pdf

Mostly, government levels were not playing all that much of a role at any time in the 1930's, though the 1930's initiated many of the now commonplace programs.

The current decimation of the state and local jobs, however, is counter to their historical role in recoveries subsequent the 1930's. The New Deal, for example, had to come up with the concept of matching grants to commence spreading new business around.

It started to happen in 1934.

The current turnaround started in 2009, but now the State and Local governments are in a reverse-model role, rather than in a recovery mode. Hoover finally tried to keep federal spending flat.

http://www.presidentprofiles.com/Grant-Eisenhower/Herbert-Hoover-Economic-collapse.html

Hoover was Quaker, volunteer-reliant, and a balanced-budgeteer, Republican of His Time! No great new-magnitude-sufficient programs were created. Unlike Lincoln, he did not initiate an attempted genocide, of White People! Republicans now, even seem to not like him.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(USGAO 2011, blames balanced budget policies for problems at state and local level!)

 

[ShackledNation]

Mascale, Hoover was a progressive interventionist. He was not a laissez-faire man. That is all that needs to be said. Nothing you have provided contradicts that.

 

[mascale]

The federal spending levels of 1930 and 1931 were about the same. Federal Spending as a percentage of GDP went from 2% to 4% since there was no GDP anymore.

Herbert Hoover was Quaker and resorted first to individualist, volunteer measures post 1929. Anything else came afterwards, reluctantly, and with insufficient magnitude.

Hoover was a bad idea. But truly enough, Laissez-Faire does not exist. Economies rely on arithmetic, and courts are used to enforce the computing rules that are in place. Usually that is contract, but is a direct government interference in the market. In Exodus 22::25-27, for example--ARM's were shown a long time ago to be a bad idea. Interest rates are not supposed to be charged on loans to the poor. The rich get the different treatment, they get the tax hikes, and the interest rates on the loans.

Just review that paragraph, and (1) Laissez-Faire is not what the Bible is about, and (2) laissez-faire is not what government, has ever been about. Government tends to be supportive, more of the rich: For example. The Market Interventions of the Bible are on behalf of the poor.

Catholics have the famous crucifixion art, "Jesus Comments Unfavorably On The Laws of Moses!" in the churches and depictions. The New Testament, however, is also rife with zero expectations of repayments of loans to the poor, which are to be encouraged. That is not laissez-faire.

Then it is back to the courts, and the lack of laissez-faire. That is not the way it works at all. There is courtroom level counter-intervention, all the time!

Finally, but 1936, Keynes and not Hoover came up with a stronger suggestion of major government intervention in times of downturn. That goes back to the Testaments, but is reliant on more modern math.

Now, None of what you just read posted can ever be discussed in any U. S. national schools whatsever--on their permanent records. That has been the case for 37 years.

Theer is no laissez-faire! Even Herbert Hoover cannot be so-accused: Or even Presbyterians. Mormons can be. Smart is not a long suit, with some people. Vishnu actually is not too red-hot on Western Materialism either--unless it is electronic music.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Teaching is clearly not possible at any grade level, without the doctoral degree, unless it is believed that some kids are better than other kids, and that all the other kids are not worth the extra effort! Clearly, there is no such thing as Laissez-Faire!)

 

[Brutus]

deficit spend during economic downturn in order to "prime the pump" of the economy.

1) spending does stimulate temporarily, but the taxing needed to spend destimulates so no net gain in possible.

2) the spending does not prime the pump it merely creates a bubble of mal investment in a bureaucrat selected area of the economy.

When the bubble bursts the pump has not primed the economy at all, rather it has just made the recession worse by allocating resources to, for example, housing( like in the current recession) to the wrong place, i.e., a place other than where the free market would have put them.

A recession ends when the free market has put things back in their proper sustainable place.

 

[mascale]

The New Testament offers advice over and over again to lend to the poor without expectation of return or repayment. Not of the Judd Gregg Republicans, Senator Alan Cranston provided the 1986 Tax Reform which raised and indexed the personal exemptions and standard deduction for lower and middle incomes. Bill Clinton would provide an equal amount, $500.00 per child tax credit beyond that, and then raise taxes on the rich. 22 mil. jobs were created.

elkabong: Clinton raised taxes on the rich and created 22 million

The Bush Republicans would support the bankers, Adjustable Rate Mortgages. Opposed to Exodus 22::25-27, interest rates would be charged and raised on the poor who could no longer afford the mortgages. The rich financial houses came tumbling on down, like intended by anti-business party of Lincolon-Hoover-Nixon-Reagan-Bush I and Bush II. The Democrats were mainly able to contain the attempted Genocide of White People to the Lincoln era, which Hoover would intend without a war. "Hoovervilles" were intentionally created by Herbert Hoover.

Cash-laden suitcases, for the rich, were created by Richard Nixon.

The Republicans time and time again have found ways to support the rich, and plunge both rich and poor into impoverishment. That is not an intent of their Holy Bible of the West. The Proverbs even show that oppressing the poor to increase riches, and refusing to raise taxes on the rich--Giving to the rich--will create economic ruin.

Those people were actually Jews, not familiar with the Ivy League!

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Many know of diferent Laws, in their history.)

 

[8537]

I will give Obama credit for killing Keynesian economic theory. The absurd theory, the darling of Progressives everywhere, was that Gubbamint needs to deficit spend during economic downturn in order to "prime the pump" of the economy.

Nobody that's ever earned a paycheck in the private sector takes this theory seriously.

you should try to tell that to Mark Zandi. He's earned a few paychecks in the private sector, you might recall.

 

[8537]

The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, J. M. Keynes, February, 1936: Not only came after the frozen spending levels of 1931, which created 1932: But even came after 1933, 1934, and 1935.

Keynes had a theory of liquidity, and spending is all about Keynes.

More like Herbert Hoover are the Balanced Budgeteers of Conservative, Republican, state and local government. Instead of participating in the recovery, from the Great Recession, they have thumbed their noses at the U. S. economic recovery attempt: Creating 500,000 job losses, instead.

The Obama spending slowed that down, and sparked 2.0 mil. jobs despite the Balanced Budgeteers, created so far.

The Republican Party despisement of Old and New Testament fundamentals even brought about the housing market collapse. Exodus 22:25-27, even comes before Herbert Hoover, even in math: "If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him."

ARM's were bad for spending, and now for balanced budgets: At the same time!

Keynes likely did better did understand the U. S. tax-basis, of the state and local economies: Which need spending. Customers in the stores create a tax base, and revenue. Public Works Construction types of Employment are supposed to happen. Pawlenty wants to employ Ph.d.'s in more research, by contrast: Like the Defense Engineers of the Reagan Debacled economy.

Keynesian economics is all about spending. Every Republican Household in the United States is now opposed to all the spending! Not even Nixon was opposed to all the spending. . .espcially in cash, in brief cases and suitcases.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Lands of Many Nations--accept spending even 24/7!)

Did you even read my sources? lol. Herbert hoover passed stimulus spending packages and expanded government.

That government spending as a percentage of GDP was almost doubled by the time Hoover left office is not an indication that Hoover expanded government spending.

 

[whitehall]

Further proof that the former community agitator is way out of his league. Look at his advisors, a bunch of political hacks and crooks. Frank Raines should be in a federal prison for stealing 90 Million from Fannie. Eric Holder should be in a federal prison for arranging the release of the worst corporate pirate in history (at the time) in exchange for a million dollar donation to the Clinton library. Not to mention the communist former leader of an arson and looting rampage Barry tried to put on his "green jobs" board. Now B. Hussein expects Americans to wait while he spends away America's future in On the Job Training.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I will give Obama credit for killing Keynesian economic theory. The absurd theory, the darling of Progressives everywhere, was that Gubbamint needs to deficit spend during economic downturn in order to "prime the pump" of the economy.

Nobody that's ever earned a paycheck in the private sector takes this theory seriously.

you should try to tell that to Mark Zandi. He's earned a few paychecks in the private sector, you might recall.

Mark "I Wrote the Obama Stimulus Package" Zandi? Is that the guy?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, J. M. Keynes, February, 1936: Not only came after the frozen spending levels of 1931, which created 1932: But even came after 1933, 1934, and 1935.

Keynes had a theory of liquidity, and spending is all about Keynes.

More like Herbert Hoover are the Balanced Budgeteers of Conservative, Republican, state and local government. Instead of participating in the recovery, from the Great Recession, they have thumbed their noses at the U. S. economic recovery attempt: Creating 500,000 job losses, instead.

The Obama spending slowed that down, and sparked 2.0 mil. jobs despite the Balanced Budgeteers, created so far.

The Republican Party despisement of Old and New Testament fundamentals even brought about the housing market collapse. Exodus 22:25-27, even comes before Herbert Hoover, even in math: "If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him."

ARM's were bad for spending, and now for balanced budgets: At the same time!

Keynes likely did better did understand the U. S. tax-basis, of the state and local economies: Which need spending. Customers in the stores create a tax base, and revenue. Public Works Construction types of Employment are supposed to happen. Pawlenty wants to employ Ph.d.'s in more research, by contrast: Like the Defense Engineers of the Reagan Debacled economy.

Keynesian economics is all about spending. Every Republican Household in the United States is now opposed to all the spending! Not even Nixon was opposed to all the spending. . .espcially in cash, in brief cases and suitcases.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Lands of Many Nations--accept spending even 24/7!)

Did you even read my sources? lol. Herbert hoover passed stimulus spending packages and expanded government.

That government spending as a percentage of GDP was almost doubled by the time Hoover left office is not an indication that Hoover expanded government spending.

I've not looked real hard, but I haven't seen anything on how new technologies (electricity) impacted economic growth. Clinton got a boost from the Internet and Peace Dividend and I think Harding, Coolidge, Hoover and FDR all road the coattail of electricity and air conditioning, some more successfully than others