Obama authorizes RESERVES to be used in Haiti

I understand the gesture in us helping Haiti. Even as a Ron Paul supporter I support helping another country with humanitarian aid in a time like this...but using the RESERVES??

That's not a job of the reserve component. Those men and women are supposed to be the last line of defense here on our shores, and to augment the active duty forces during a time of war or national emergency. National emergency meaning, US national emergency.

This is a misuse of the reserves if you ask me. As if it wasn't bad enough that Bush pretty much back door drafted most of them into Iraq, now Obama is bringing them into Haiti in a clear misuse of their purpose.

I'm already certain the comments on this are going to be pretty evenly divided down partisan lines, too.

I can understand why Obama is doing this. The amount of warlords and gangs down there is preventing aid to getting to the people who need it. Obviously sending some reserves are suppose to combat that.

And I'm just curious Paulie as to what year you're living in? I can understand the use of them in war despite Bush's abuse of that. But the last lines of defense on our shores? Who exactly are you expecting to show up? The British? :eusa_eh:

I get your thinking, but I just think it's a bit..outdated.


Idiot. Warlords and gangs keep aid from reaching people in Afghanistan, Darfur and a dozen other places the world over. Haiti has ALWAYS had warlords & gangs terrorizing the people.
 
Again, WHO came to our aid after katrina?

In addition to those countries listed in my above post:

Pledges from International Organizations

Below is a list of international governmental organizations offering aid to the people of the United States.

European Union: Any help and assistance that is requested, also agreed to provide oil reserves to the U.S. The U.S. only accepted first aid kits, blankets, water trucks, and 500,000 Ready-to-eat meals.

Habitat for Humanity International: Pledged to help Habitat families and other low-income families in the affected areas recover and rebuild.[45]

International Energy Agency: The Paris-based International Energy Agency agreed to make 60 million barrels (9,500,000 m3) of product available "to help the United States weather the economic problems caused by Hurricane Katrina. The product, crude oil or gasoline, will go to the marketplace over the next month at the rate of 2 million barrels per day (320,000 m3/d)."[46]

IFRC (Red Cross and Red Crescent): Sent more than 80 disaster experts. The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies launched the largest mobilisation of resources for a single natural disaster, including the recruitment of 1,900 staff and volunteers. All available resources were moved to safe areas so relief efforts could begin immediately after the storm passed. More than 250 emergency response vehicles (ERVs) and countless other Red Cross resources were sent to provide hot meals, snacks, bottled water and distribute other much-needed relief supplies. The Red Cross opened shelters in support of the massive evacuations in all affected states. As of Monday, 29 August, some 230 Red Cross shelters had been opened in Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas, housing over 40,000 people. In coordination with the Southern Baptists, preparations have been made to provide more than 500,000 hot meals each day.[47]

International Medical Corps: deployed a rapid response team to affected areas in Louisiana and Mississippi to determine the needs in impacted communities, provided medical, technical, and financial assistance. From September through December, IMC provided volunteer physicians and nurses to run mobile clinics serving displaced communities in Louisiana, serving more than 13,000 patients. An IMC psychosocial support program provided tools and strategies to school-based staff and volunteers to enable them to cope with their own grief and loss and to address the needs of affected students. IMC also provided structured psychosocial activities for children, adolescents, and their families at a FEMA-established temporary trailer parks.[48]

NATO: Made offers of help and assistance. As of September 4, NATO provided humanitarian aid, such as food, medical supplies, and wheelchairs. NATO was prepared to send troops, but the U.S. government has not issued a request for personnel.

OPEC: Made offers of help and assistance.

Organization of American States: Donated $25,000 to the American Red Cross.

United Nations: The United Nations said it was ready to send supply water storage tanks, water purification tablets, high-energy biscuits, generators, planes, tents and other emergency supplies along with experienced staff members. The UN set up an inter-agency task force composed of representatives from the United Nations Children's Fund, the World Health Organization, the Food and Agriculture Organization, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees' office and the World Food Program, chaired by the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) to determine resources available to assist U.S. relief efforts in anticipation of a possible request from the U.S. government.

United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees: Made, as an independent agency, offers of help and assistance.

World Health Organization: Made, as an independent agency, offers of help and assistance.
 
Idiot. Warlords and gangs keep aid from reaching people in Afghanistan, Darfur and a dozen other places the world over. Haiti has ALWAYS had warlords & gangs terrorizing the people.

As has Afghanistan and Darfur. And now the warlords and gangs in Haiti is preventing aid to going to the people there. That is exactly what I said.

What is with some of you tonight? :eusa_eh:
 
Offers of Charitable Assistance

FEMA could neither efficiently accept nor manage the deluge of charitable donations.188 Private sector companies also encountered problems when attempting to donate their goods and services to FEMA for Hurricane Katrina response efforts.

Other countries made generous offers of assistance that the Federal government had difficulty integrating into the ongoing response operations. Absent an implementation plan for the management of foreign material assistance, valuable resources often went unused, which frustrated many donor countries. Inadequate planning delayed the overall process of accepting and receiving disaster aid from abroad. For example, after Switzerland had loaded relief supplies onto an aircraft, FEMA requested that the country send only the portion FEMA required to meet response needs. As the generous contribution of supplies could not be unloaded quickly and repackaged into the
smaller quantities in a timely manner, the U.S. Embassy in Bern and the Government of Switzerland cancelled the entire flight. A German company offered the use of a $3 million integrated satellite and cellular telephone system capable of handling 5,000 calls at once, only to wait five days for a written deployment order from USNORTHCOM.

The same was true of foreign financial assistance. There was no means of accepting, allocating and disbursing funds that would also ensure transparency and acknowledgement of donors. The Federal government eventually developed a process to accept financial gifts from foreign countries, but because there was no pre-established plan, implementation was a slow and often frustrating process. The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) sent liaisons to FEMA field locations on September 2 to coordinate the delivery of foreign disaster relief. However, it took several days for the international aid staging area at Little Rock Air Force Base, Arkansas, to become operational. Before this staging area was established, foreign aid could not be efficiently unloaded and distributed. The Federal government’s inability to utilize its own resources, or those offered to it, caused great concern for the American public.

http://library.stmarytx.edu/acadlib/edocs/katrinawh.pdf

While I'm finding references to this on a number of sites, I can't seem to get the page to pull up on State.

•Hurricane Katrina, August 29, 2005 - This collection consists of documents regarding the Department of State's response to and acceptance of foreign governments' offers of relief assistance to the victims of the hurricane. The collection will be expanded over time as additional documents are reviewed and declassified.

http://foia.state.gov/SearchColls/colhelp.asp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/06/AR2005090601994.html

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/06/international.aid/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9282598/
 
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I am not saying anyone turned down our help, I am saying some countries offered helped during Katrina and were turned down.

I'm going to have to see a link to some credible info on that. From what I understand ALL aid offered was accepted despite Bush's taken out of context remark "We can take care of ourselves."

It is wikipedia but it lists what was offered and what was actually taken.
International response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How credible is wikipedia? In your opinion.
 
We didn't accept 400 million dollars in oil from Saudi Arabia. We turned down European troops on American soil. We turned down more oil from the EU. Is that your basis for saying we turned down aid?

Can you imagine what the left would have done if we HAD accepted that oil???

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhh Bush and Cheney stole the oil for their Texas tea party pals waaaaaaaaahhhhhh. Christ almighty...we NEVER would have heard the end of that!!!
 
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We didn't accept 400 million dollars in oil from Saudi Arabia. We turned down European troops on American soil. We turned more oil from the EU. Is that your basis for saying we turned down aid?

Can you imagine what the left would have done if we HAD accepted that oil???

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhh Bush and Cheney stole the oil for their Texas tea party pals waaaaaaaaahhhhhh. Christ almighty...we NEVER would have heard the end of that!!!

Now you're defecting. It was offered, therefore the point that both Luissa and Emma made was proven.

Stop being a partisan hack when you were proven wrong.
 
We didn't accept 400 million dollars in oil from Saudi Arabia. We turned down European troops on American soil. We turned more oil from the EU. Is that your basis for saying we turned down aid?

Can you imagine what the left would have done if we HAD accepted that oil???

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhh Bush and Cheney stole the oil for their Texas tea party pals waaaaaaaaahhhhhh. Christ almighty...we NEVER would have heard the end of that!!!

Now you're defecting. It was offered, therefore the point that both Luissa and Emma made was proven.

Stop being a partisan hack when you were proven wrong.

I'm not deflecting anything anklebiter...I'm trying to find out what her opinion is? If you got a problem with that then mind your own fucking business and watch the discussion develope.
 
Aha. Finally.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/Katrina Matrix.pdf

Thirty pages. Table listing countries offering aid and assistance after Katrina (many more than I had found in my above post), and those denied/rejected by the US.

CREW’s matrix is based on 25,000 Department of State (DOS) documents it received as a result of a lawsuit filed under the Freedom of Information Act in December 2005 for records relating to the federal government’s handling and acceptance of international offers of aid after Hurricane Katrina.

The matrix includes all international offers, whether they were rejected or accepted and the reasons why, if available. The documents reveal a number of disturbing responses to offers from 145 countries and 12 international organizations from around the world.

For example, an email from Jeffrey Goldstein, a U.S. Embassy official in Estonia, to several DOS officials, states:

It is getting downright embarrassing here not to have a response to the Estonians on flood relief. And now I see from the staff meeting notes that the task force may disband soon. We know that what the Estonians can offer is small potatoes and everyone at FEMA is swamped, but at this point even “thanks but no thanks” is better than deafening silence.

Another email responding to an offer from Argentina to DOS officials reads “All, The (sic) word here is that doctors of any kind are in the 'forget about it' category. Human assistance of any kind is not on our priorities list....It’s all about goods, not people, at this point.”

Another email describes how the transport of Israeli relief supplies loaded on a C-130 aircraft was delayed for over 48 hours on the tarmac while Israeli officials waited for clearance from the U.S. government. The unidentified author states: “I’ve been on the phone with the [Israeli] attache every couple of hours since noon . . . they’re patient, but not amused by our delay, obviously.” The documents do not reveal if or how the issue was resolved.

Melanie Sloan, CREW’s executive director said today, “A review of the State Department documents reveals distressing ineptitude. Countries were trying to donate desperately needed goods and services, but as a result of bureaucratic bungling and indifference, those most in need of these generous offers of aid never received it.”

More links here: Related to CREW RELEASES REPORT DETAILING INTERNATIONAL ASSISTANCE OFFERS IN WAKE OF HURRICANE KATRINA | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington
 
Aid from Venezuela shot down...no surprise there.

Over politics I am sure! People who lost everything, probably wouldn't have cared where they recieved aid from. And why would I have a problem with getting oil from the EU?

And really I was just trying to prove we recieved aid, and we refused aid.
 
I'm going to have to see a link to some credible info on that. From what I understand ALL aid offered was accepted despite Bush's taken out of context remark "We can take care of ourselves."

It is wikipedia but it lists what was offered and what was actually taken.
International response to Hurricane Katrina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How credible is wikipedia? In your opinion.

Quite, in this instance. I will use them if their references check out. However, the list of countries on that list fell short of the number that actually made offers. See my above post :)
 
I can understand why some aid was turned down. All of it due to political reasons. Whether that's right or wrong history will judge.

Hardly. Read through that last link ( http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/Katrina Matrix.pdf )

(for example) what was the "political reason" for rejecting the Australian's offer of "search and rescue team, emergency managers, disaster rescue and logistics specialists, emergency
assessment team, 3 fire rescue team members and forensic assistants" ?
 
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Aha. Finally.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/Katrina Matrix.pdf

Thirty pages. Table listing countries offering aid and assistance after Katrina (many more than I had found in my above post), and those denied/rejected by the US.

CREW’s matrix is based on 25,000 Department of State (DOS) documents it received as a result of a lawsuit filed under the Freedom of Information Act in December 2005 for records relating to the federal government’s handling and acceptance of international offers of aid after Hurricane Katrina.

The matrix includes all international offers, whether they were rejected or accepted and the reasons why, if available. The documents reveal a number of disturbing responses to offers from 145 countries and 12 international organizations from around the world.

For example, an email from Jeffrey Goldstein, a U.S. Embassy official in Estonia, to several DOS officials, states:

It is getting downright embarrassing here not to have a response to the Estonians on flood relief. And now I see from the staff meeting notes that the task force may disband soon. We know that what the Estonians can offer is small potatoes and everyone at FEMA is swamped, but at this point even “thanks but no thanks” is better than deafening silence.

Another email responding to an offer from Argentina to DOS officials reads “All, The (sic) word here is that doctors of any kind are in the 'forget about it' category. Human assistance of any kind is not on our priorities list....It’s all about goods, not people, at this point.”

Another email describes how the transport of Israeli relief supplies loaded on a C-130 aircraft was delayed for over 48 hours on the tarmac while Israeli officials waited for clearance from the U.S. government. The unidentified author states: “I’ve been on the phone with the [Israeli] attache every couple of hours since noon . . . they’re patient, but not amused by our delay, obviously.” The documents do not reveal if or how the issue was resolved.

Melanie Sloan, CREW’s executive director said today, “A review of the State Department documents reveals distressing ineptitude. Countries were trying to donate desperately needed goods and services, but as a result of bureaucratic bungling and indifference, those most in need of these generous offers of aid never received it.”

More links here: Related to CREW RELEASES REPORT DETAILING INTERNATIONAL ASSISTANCE OFFERS IN WAKE OF HURRICANE KATRINA | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington

After 9/11 there were several new laws governing a host of things related to access to our country. Security had to be the #1 priority...I can understand the delays due to them awaiting clearance from U.S. authorities. No big surprise there....what does surprise me is the fact that only 5% of the cash donated has been spent on the victims and restoring their neighborhoods.
 
I can understand why some aid was turned down. All of it due to political reasons. Whether that's right or wrong history will judge.

Hardly. Read through that last link ( http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/Katrina Matrix.pdf )

(for example) what was the "political reason" for rejecting the Australian's offer of "search and rescue team, emergency managers, disaster rescue and logistics specialists, emergency
assessment team, 3 fire rescue team members and forensic assistants" ?

Did you ever stop to think that we may have already had enough of the rejected items on hand already...and did you ever stop to think about the logistical efforts needed to bring even MORE stuff we already have into the effected area?
 
Or refusing Austria's "disaster relief team specializing in water purification and decontamination, 10 disaster relief experts, 10 water pumps, 4 person psychological support team, 6 person communication support team, elite police "Cobra" team specializing in protection, 100 troops with technical skills"?

But hey. We did accept their 500 tarps and 300 camp beds =\
 
Did you ever stop to think that we may have already had enough of the rejected items on hand already...and did you ever stop to think about the logistical efforts needed to bring even MORE stuff we already have into the effected area?

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

I've posted enough stuff here proving the Feds screwed the pooch on this (foreign aid).

BTW, the original question was just "WHO" had helped us during Katrina (the implication being, of course, that NO one had). Which, as I've proven, is complete and utter bullshit.

Additionally, the claim was made that "all offers were accepted". Bullshit again.
 
We didn't accept 400 million dollars in oil from Saudi Arabia. We turned down European troops on American soil. We turned down more oil from the EU. Is that your basis for saying we turned down aid?

Can you imagine what the left would have done if we HAD accepted that oil???

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhh Bush and Cheney stole the oil for their Texas tea party pals waaaaaaaaahhhhhh. Christ almighty...we NEVER would have heard the end of that!!!

:lol:

Do you not even remember what you've posted?

I am not saying anyone turned down our help, I am saying some countries offered helped during Katrina and were turned down.

I'm going to have to see a link to some credible info on that. From what I understand ALL aid offered was accepted despite Bush's taken out of context remark "We can take care of ourselves."
 

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