Obama and the Present Vote

[Alison 451]

It is a personal liberty to wish to kill innocent unborn children?
It is a personal liberty to change the definition of something instead of having a new term or designation for a new concept such as a civil union?
It is a personal liberty to use unborn children as a harvesting ground for cells for medical research?

Yep... we have a new uber-lefty on board

Uber lefty? Whatever that means, I don't even know.

It is a woman's right to choose, not for the government to choose for her.

As far as civil unions go, as long as there is equal protection under the law then no one gets hurt. Why don't gay couples get federal protection under social security the same way heterosexual couples do? The terminology doesn't mean much if people aren't considered to be equal.

And Stem Cell Research does tremendous things to save lives. I thought republicans were supposed to be pro-life? They want to pretend abortions don't happen and potential research gets thrown away for no reason.

 

[DiamondDave]

1) And the baby's right is to exist...
2) I support equal rights for gay civil unions... inheritance, insurance, etc.. you're not going to get an argument from me... I do not support changing the definition of marriage, as many gays scream for though...
3) Stem cells can be gotten from other means than abortion... and when opening up the precedent to use aborted babies for cell harvest, you open up the possibility for using the practice like raising crops... the funny thing is that stem cells can be obtained in other ways other than abortions... and I don't see those practices being frowned upon by anyone but the extremists

 

[Alison 451]

It is a personal liberty to wish to kill innocent unborn children?
It is a personal liberty to change the definition of something instead of having a new term or designation for a new concept such as a civil union?
It is a personal liberty to use unborn children as a harvesting ground for cells for medical research?

Yep... we have a new uber-lefty on board

By the way, I noticed you skipped the part about censorship.

Do you think the government should have the authority to remove certain books from the library too?

 

[DiamondDave]

By the way, I noticed you skipped the part about censorship.

Do you think the government should have the authority to remove certain books from the library too?

We had a whole thread on this.... which is why I did not delve into it again... it has been discussed, ad nauseum

 

[Alison 451]

1) And the baby's right is to exist...

There is a scientific argument regarding the unborn. This issue is between the mother and her medical doctor and the government should have nothing to do with essentially forcing a woman to give birth. The science shows and the law affirms that the woman's right supercedes the right of the unborn child.

 

[Alison 451]

We had a whole thread on this.... which is why I did not delve into it again... it has been discussed, ad nauseum

Okay, I didn't know that. I'll look for it.

 

[DiamondDave]

Okay, I didn't know that. I'll look for it.

Yep... it should not be hard to find... huge thread...

Basically I am not for censorship.. unless it involves children... some things kids should not be exposed to... but as adults, if you want to borrow gay Amish midget porn, then by all means be my guest.... but then again, I really don't think that is an expense I want to see in a government budget, even in a library

 

[Alison 451]

Yep... it should not be hard to find... huge thread...

Basically I am not for censorship.. unless it involves children... some things kids should not be exposed to... but as adults, if you want to borrow gay Amish midget porn, then by all means be my guest.... but then again, I really don't think that is an expense I want to see in a government budget, even in a library

I agree. I found the thread, thanks.

 

[DiamondDave]

There is a scientific argument regarding the unborn. This issue is between the mother and her medical doctor and the government should have nothing to do with essentially forcing a woman to give birth. The science shows and the law affirms that the woman's right supercedes the right of the unborn child.

Science and the theories applied can show many things from many perspectives...



But then again, with my mother being a Neonatal NNICU nurse for MANY years... I did volunteer time and saw the babies as little as a pound fighting and struggling for life, and craving contact... I don't think there is a choice factor over innocent life

Now in terms of rape, incest, and physical mortal danger to the mother... then yes, I support the option... unlike many on the far-right... but I am definitely a pro-lifer rather than a pro-choicer...

 

[glockmail]

Glock, why don't you research that and get back to us? I could research it for you you and whatever I came back with you'd say somehow that showed Obama in a poor light.

130 present votes out of 4,000 votes cast people... that is the ratio you all are pissing and moaning about. You realize who ridiculous that is right? that's roughly 3.5% of his total vote.... that is MINISUCLE....

But I know the Cons specialty is taking something small and blowing it up to mean more than it really means in an effort to detract away from the real issues and what's important because when you focus on the real issues they come out woefully wanting.

You brought up the issue so you should be prepared to defend it. I suspect that there are many co-sponsors to lots of these bills, so for you to tout that as something special for Obama, its more of the bullshit that you complain about as a "Con" tactic. Just like you bring up this 3.5% like its no big deal but we have nothing to compare it to.

You talk about "Con" tactics of blowing shit out of proportion. But the fact is, Libs do the exact same thing. Its all part of the game.

 

[Navy1960]

The 130 "present" votes even it was meant as a "no" there is a preception that Obama does not like to commit to his views. That's just one issue though among several in his legislative career. I've noticed there has been no comment on his " I meant to vote this way and pressed the wrong button thing" or perhaps the number of bills he was listed as a co-sponser on that his views created a storm of controversy on, such as the "death penalty for gang members" or "not allowing home owners to defend themselves because it violated a city gun ban".

 

[Modbert]

Science and the theories applied can show many things from many perspectives...



But then again, with my mother being a Neonatal NNICU nurse for MANY years... I did volunteer time and saw the babies as little as a pound fighting and struggling for life, and craving contact... I don't think there is a choice factor over innocent life

Now in terms of rape, incest, and physical mortal danger to the mother... then yes, I support the option... unlike many on the far-right... but I am definitely a pro-lifer rather than a pro-choicer...

Then your going to have trouble voting for John McCain then or should least a little. He drops dead, Sarah Palin who supports no abortions in ALL cases (which means incest, rape, mortal danger to the mother,etc) would be in charge.

Though I'm curious, she has three daughters correct? What would she tell said daughters if say the baby they were pregnant with "threatens" their life.

For some odd reason, I really doubt she'll have them keep it. Same thing in a case of incest and or rape.

 

[DiamondDave]

Then your going to have trouble voting for John McCain then or should least a little. He drops dead, Sarah Palin who supports no abortions in ALL cases (which means incest, rape, mortal danger to the mother,etc) would be in charge.

Though I'm curious, she has three daughters correct? What would she tell said daughters if say the baby they were pregnant with "threatens" their life.

For some odd reason, I really doubt she'll have them keep it. Same thing in a case of incest and or rape.

Even if I do not agree with everything McCain or Palin supports or stands for... I agree with them on MANY more things than I agree with Obama on...

MANY more things

 

[Modbert]

Even if I do not agree with everything McCain or Palin supports or stands for... I agree with them on MANY more things than I agree with Obama on...

MANY more things

My point still stands, are you going to feel a little bad about voting for John McCain this november since that has a chance of happening?

Hell John McCain has already said himself he's going after Roe V Wade. So what happens if he does get rid of it, and then dies? Sarah Palin goes after the rest with the extreme right wing cheering her on.

 

[DiamondDave]

My point still stands, are you going to feel a little bad about voting for John McCain this november since that has a chance of happening?

Hell John McCain has already said himself he's going after Roe V Wade. So what happens if he does get rid of it, and then dies? Sarah Palin goes after the rest with the extreme right wing cheering her on.

No... just because of that, I am not going to vote for the socialist jerkoff Obama who has a HORRIBLE position on abortion... I am more closely aligned with pro-life than pro-choice... I am just most aligned with pro-life with those 3 stipulations

 

[Modbert]

No... just because of that, I am not going to vote for the socialist jerkoff Obama who has a HORRIBLE position on abortion... I am more closely aligned with pro-life than pro-choice... I am just most aligned with pro-life with those 3 stipulations

I never said you had to vote for Obama. Just held your nose on that position when voting for McCain/Palin. McCain picked a running Mate who could mirror the ideals he was running on.

McCain and Palin all of a sudden want change, their change doesn't look so good to me.

Obama however you have to admit has never wanted to ban abortions in the case of rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life.

This isn't a argument on whether you'll vote for this person or that person. It's just standing beside your ideals.

 

[DiamondDave]

I never said you had to vote for Obama. Just held your nose on that position when voting for McCain/Palin. McCain picked a running Mate who could mirror the ideals he was running on.

McCain and Palin all of a sudden want change, their change doesn't look so good to me.

Obama however you have to admit has never wanted to ban abortions in the case of rape, incest, and threat to the mother's life.

This isn't a argument on whether you'll vote for this person or that person. It's just standing beside your ideals.

As stated... I am more aligned with pro-life than pro choice... it was actually personally hard to come to grips with my stance on allowing such a thing in cases of rape or incest.... because the child is not to blame, nor is the fact that they are an innocent life....

Allowing late term abortions, abortions for birth control or simply as a choice to exterminate life, etc, are very much against my ideals....