Obama and small town America

pretty sure it was the looking down their noses part

ya know in the quote you posted but ignore.
 
Don't we want our leaders to be elite? Or do we want them to just be people we'd like to have a beer with?

If the answer is the latter, then it explains why things are the mess they are.
 
I don't recall him saying that people in the midwest don't share his "intellectual capacity." If he said that, please show me. I would agree that is elitist, unless of course he was talking about insufficient access to education.
 
"Don't we want our leaders to be elite?"

uh see john stewert last night?

he made that case pretty well...in a comedy central kind a way.
 
We don't want leaders who think Americans are stupid and mean, and who think that those who live in rural areas and cherish the right to bear arms and/or Christianity need to be "taught" differently.

Just because you don't understand the culture doesn't mean it's misguided.

Obama hates America and he hates Americans. I'm tickled to death he can't hide it. Pretty stupid when you're running against Hillary, who's already been there and done that and isn't about to let it slide.
 
Don't we want our leaders to be elite? Or do we want them to just be people we'd like to have a beer with?

If the answer is the latter, then it explains why things are the mess they are.

Why does being elite mean that someone isn't a person to share a beer with? This equates elite with just being different. Someone from small-town Ohio probably wouldn't want to sit and have a beer with someone from inner city Compton, but the latter isn't elite.

I generally think of elite as coming from a privileged, monied class. If it just means successful, than I am befuddled how that could be perceived as perjorative - which it is obviously meant to be.
 
There's a difference between being elite, and being elitist.

Being one of the "elite" doesn't matter.

Being "elitist" means a person thinks they are above the crowd, better, superior, smarter, and not answerable to the little people.
 
We don't want leaders who think Americans are stupid and mean, and who think that those who live in rural areas and cherish the right to bear arms and/or Christianity need to be "taught" differently.

Just because you don't understand the culture doesn't mean it's misguided.

He didn't say that middle Americans need to be taught differently. He (as I interpreted him) basically said that they have been neglected by the government and don't think that the government (Republican or Democratic) is going to intervene to make their lives better. As a result, they tend to emphasize political issues that are secondary to improving their quality of life. He didn't say that the 2nd Amendment or religion are unimportant, but that these have magnified in importance for people who don't think the government is going to help them with things like jobs, schools, etc.
 
There's a difference between being elite, and being elitist.

Being one of the "elite" doesn't matter.

Being "elitist" means a person thinks they are above the crowd, better, superior, smarter, and not answerable to the little people.

I will agree that what he said is condescending and a bit simplistic... and a bit true. I just don't think it makes him an elite.
 
We don't want leaders who think Americans are stupid

In a now-famous recent exchange on Good Morning America, ABC reporter Martha Raddatz asked Vice President Dick Cheney about the fact that "two-thirds of the American people say [the war in Iraq] is not worth fighting." The vice president said, "So?" and Ms. Raddatz asked, "So you don't care what the American people think?" Mr. Cheney responded that "you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls."
 
Are you one of those people? We don't "cling" to guns and CHristianity, any more than liberals "cling" to the idea of national health.

It's part of our culture, it's who we are, and it's a choice. We aren't who we are because we're too stupid to be anything else. We're who we are because we choose to be who we are.

I get so sick of elitist assholes from the cities bemoaning the stupidity and ignorance of their rural neighbors, when city dwellers have much, much less of an inkling of rural life than rural residents have of city life. At least we spend a little time in the city and have television. You guys (not speaking to you, particularly. I don't know if you're a city dweller) have no way to relate to us at all. And this isn't helped by the fact that there's an assumption that people who think differently must be at least a few IQ points dumber.

We fly, we eat sushi, we (gasp) travel the world, and we watch the news. We're educated, we work, we have cars and property and kids. We relate to you. We've spent time in your cities, and participated in politics ourselves.

But people like Obama and Jillian don't relate to us. They don't understand the gun culture, they've never been part of it, therefore it's silly for others to belong. They aren't Christian (and I don't care what Obama says, I think he uses the church) therefore Christians are backwards.
 
the assumption is that the masses can be manipulated.

good lord if the iraq war fiasco doesn't prove that...

:eusa_wall:
 
obama just made the mistake of letting the masses in on the secret.
 
Are you one of those people? We don't "cling" to guns and CHristianity, any more than liberals "cling" to the idea of national health.

I don't know which people you are referring to. I grew up in rural Ohio.

It's part of our culture, it's who we are, and it's a choice. We aren't who we are because we're too stupid to be anything else. We're who we are because we choose to be who we are.

I agree that it is part of the culture. However, I think it is simplistic to think it just became an important part of the culture without asking why it became part of the culture - and so strongly a part of the culture.

I get so sick of elitist assholes from the cities bemoaning the stupidity and ignorance of their rural neighbors, when city dwellers have much, much less of an inkling of rural life than rural residents have of city life. At least we spend a little time in the city and have television. You guys (not speaking to you, particularly. I don't know if you're a city dweller) have no way to relate to us at all. And this isn't helped by the fact that there's an assumption that people who think differently must be at least a few IQ points dumber.

There is something I hadn't considered. Are you equating elitist with urban? I can definitely see a difference between urbanites and rural dwellers. I wouldn't call it a question of elitism, any more than it is elitism for rural people to talk about urbanites as if they don't have religion or don't care about the 2nd Amendment.
 
In a now-famous recent exchange on Good Morning America, ABC reporter Martha Raddatz asked Vice President Dick Cheney about the fact that "two-thirds of the American people say [the war in Iraq] is not worth fighting." The vice president said, "So?" and Ms. Raddatz asked, "So you don't care what the American people think?" Mr. Cheney responded that "you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls."

He's right. Wasn't it ABC who declared Bush lost the presidency based on exit polls?

Polls mean nothing, and shouldn't be taken into consideration in matters of war.
 
I don't know which people you are referring to. I grew up in rural Ohio.



I agree that it is part of the culture. However, I think it is simplistic to think it just became an important part of the culture without asking why it became part of the culture - and so strongly a part of the culture.



There is something I hadn't considered. Are you equating elitist with urban? I can definitely see a difference between urbanites and rural dwellers. I wouldn't call it a question of elitism, any more than it is elitism for rural people to talk about urbanites as if they don't have religion or don't care about the 2nd Amendment.

Most elitists are urbanites, but I'm not talking about all urbanites, obviously.

Why do you need to ask "why" it became a part of the culture? YOu're making the assumption that it shouldn't be part of the culture, and that just feeds into the whole superiority thing. Dissect your own culture, if you must. If you feel compelled to dissect a culture that isn't yours, then live in the culture. Don't judge it and criticize it from afar. I've lived in the city and in the country (and as an adult). I made a choice. How many of those critical of the Christian, rural way of life have ever actually lived among the people they feel superior to? I see people criticize farmers all the time...when they have absolutely NO inkling of what farming entails, or how it affects the market, or what influences it, or even how it's done. I find that amazing.
 
"Polls mean nothing, and shouldn't be taken into consideration in matters of war."

excellent. i get it.

of course, polls involve science and therefore...:rofl:
 
seriously allie,

are you suggesting the cheney disregarded the polls because he shares you ludicrous belief that polls are meaningless?

hahaha...cause that's not what he said.

he said public opinions shouldn't blow leaders off-course. not because opinion polls are wrong...ahahhaahha.

because the masses blow in the wind.

that is an elitist view.

silly.
 
Why do you need to ask "why" it became a part of the culture?

Why do Muslim women wear hajibs? Sure, it is part of their culture, but there might also be historical reasons, and possibly there are issues of power relationships. Culture is dynamic and it changes all the time. Understanding why it changes and what forms it takes can help us elaborate on assumptions that we have about other people and ourselves.

YOu're making the assumption that it shouldn't be part of the culture, and that just feeds into the whole superiority thing.

I make no assumptions. I have no problem with people being religious, and I don't think them inferior for owning guns.

Dissect your own culture, if you must.

I am from rural Ohio. It is my culture as much as any other part of me.

If you feel compelled to dissect a culture that isn't yours, then live in the culture. Don't judge it and criticize it from afar. I've lived in the city and in the country (and as an adult). I made a choice. How many of those critical of the Christian, rural way of life have ever actually lived among the people they feel superior to? I see people criticize farmers all the time...when they have absolutely NO inkling of what farming entails, or how it affects the market, or what influences it, or even how it's done. I find that amazing.

Rural people criticize urban people. Urban people criticize rural people. People of different religions comment on the beliefs of others. I don't think this is an elite thing, I think it is just part of being different.

Of course you have made choices, but no choice is made in a vacuum. All choices are shaped (and possibly constrained) by our experiences.
 
And it's wrong to judge people for the legal choices they make about their lifestyle. Whether it's their religion, their lifestyle, whatever.

The difference between you and I is I'm not particularly interested in motivation. I don't care why Muslim women cover themselves, particularly. I accept what they do and respect their choice to do so (in the event they are given a choice, that is). I don't look to "justify" the actions of others because I assume they are adults who are capable of making their own decisions.

Nobody needs to "justify" gun culture or Christianity, as Obama did. Why does it need justification? It's a choice, just like sexuality or anything else. We don't want people to sympathize with us. We want people to respect us as they respect any city dweller or gay rights activist.
 

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