Obama and small town America

[LordBrownTrout]

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
He goes out and says kids need to stop watching so much television, which I agree with, and then drops this bomb.
I almost feel sorry for Obama and comments like this. This makes very little sense.

Obama and small town America

 

[ReillyT]

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
He goes out and says kids need to stop watching so much television, which I agree with, and then drops this bomb.
I almost feel sorry for Obama and comments like this. This makes very little sense.

Obama and small town America

I grew up in small town Ohio and I think there is something to this, but he is probably over-generalizing the effects of job loss and poor economic conditions on a lot of people in a lot of communities.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I grew up in small town Ohio and I think there is something to this, but he is probably over-generalizing the effects of job loss and poor economic conditions on a lot of people in a lot of communities.

All Politicians talk to the group they are trying to sell themselves too. Does not matter party or color of skin or sex.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Sounds like Obama doesn't expect to get many votes in the Midwest and small towns.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Actually, I think the stucco has been falling off of his facade for a few weeks now. Speaking down or condescension never wins votes and more people are starting to see it imo.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but in my part of the world, the most conservative citizens are usually those living in the small towns. They mostly live in small towns because they prefer living in small towns as opposed to crowded cities. Most 'bitterness' at government that I have observed has been directed at pols and bureaucrats who impose oppressive rules, regulations, and taxes on the citizens who mostly want to just be left alone to live their lives that include religion and guns and other personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. I think most of small town America would just prefer that the federal government not presume to 'take care of them' but would burden them as little as possible with taxes and just leave them alone.

 

[Swamp Fox]

I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but in my part of the world, the most conservative citizens are usually those living in the small towns. They mostly live in small towns because they prefer living in small towns as opposed to crowded cities. Most 'bitterness' at government that I have observed has been directed at pols and bureaucrats who impose oppressive rules, regulations, and taxes on the citizens who mostly want to just be left alone to live their lives that include religion and guns and other personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. I think most of small town America would just prefer that the federal government not presume to 'take care of them' but would burden them as little as possible with taxes and just leave them alone.

Which is exactly why people such as Obama hate and fear them. It goes against everything Obama represents.

 

[Foxfyre]

Which is exactly why people such as Obama hate and fear them. It goes against everything Obama represents.

I don't know whether he hates or fears them. But it is pretty evident that he doesn't know a dang thing about them.

 

[jillian]

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
He goes out and says kids need to stop watching so much television, which I agree with, and then drops this bomb.
I almost feel sorry for Obama and comments like this. This makes very little sense.

Obama and small town America

I read the quote. Thing is, historically, when people's jobs are in jeopardy and the economy isn't good, they DO scapegoat others. They do blame illegal immigrants, or blacks or jews or any other outsider they can to explain their predicament. So did he say anything terrible or untrue?

I think people just aren't used to someone who doesn't talk down to them and always tell them what they want to hear, but actually tells them what's what...whether its about race relations or job insecurity.... or scapegoating.

Just my opinion, obviously.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I read the quote. Thing is, historically, when people's jobs are in jeopardy and the economy isn't good, they DO scapegoat others. They do blame illegal immigrants, or blacks or jews or any other outsider they can to explain their predicament. So did he say anything terrible or untrue?

I think people just aren't used to someone who doesn't talk down to them and always tell them what they want to hear, but actually tells them what's what...whether its about race relations or job insecurity.... or scapegoating.

Just my opinion, obviously.

Well, making statements such statements as ..."they cling to guns and religion", I mean, those are guaranteed freedoms that we have. It sounds as if he's relegating the simple folk of these small towns to some kind of wild native or savage.

 

[jillian]

Well, making statements such statements as ..."they cling to guns and religion", I mean, those are guaranteed freedoms that we have. It sounds as if he's relegating the simple folk of these small towns to some kind of wild native or savage.

I understand what you're saying. But I think you have to understand, to most of us left-leaners (and I include myself among them, obviously) it's about priorities. We really don't *get* the whole gun culture thing. Nor do most of us, I'd guess, understand religion as a driving force for political belief (since we're pretty don't care what people believe as long as they don't force it on us). I include myself there too. I have no particular issues with gun owners or religious folk, but suppose in terms of priorities, I and, if I can speak for others on the left, move those things waaaaaaaaaaaaaay further down the food chain. I'd have probably focused on the other issues if I were him, but I guess I'm more of his natural audience than you would be.

Final note: No question there are some on the left who do hate guns and religion, but most don't... and the ones that do are goofy, too.

 

[Foxfyre]

I read the quote. Thing is, historically, when people's jobs are in jeopardy and the economy isn't good, they DO scapegoat others. They do blame illegal immigrants, or blacks or jews or any other outsider they can to explain their predicament. So did he say anything terrible or untrue?

I think people just aren't used to someone who doesn't talk down to them and always tell them what they want to hear, but actually tells them what's what...whether its about race relations or job insecurity.... or scapegoating.

Just my opinion, obviously.

I simply have not seen any evidence to support your theory here. When a contractor loses a bid to another contractor who can bid low because he hires illegals, it isn't scapegoating to believe that the illegals are causing a problem. Jews and Blacks aren't outsiders, however, and yes there are people who still hold prejudices against people because they are black or Jewish or gay or female or Republican or work for an oil company or play the accordian, but such people are simply idiots and, thankfully, are in a distinct minority. But it is not scapegoating when your kids receive a poorer quality education and you observe that this is because so many resources are targeted for this minority or that minority group. It is normal to feel resentful that your kid is actually punished if you happen to be successful and productive and are contributing to society instead of leaching from it.

And it is also not scapegoating to resent when the tax laws and rules and regulations and environmental terrorism or whatever makes doing business elsewhere, perhaps in some other country, attractive to a small town's primary industry and it moves out. And it is not scapegoating to know that the more the federal government meddles with it all, the more that kind of thing is likely to happen.

These are all things that I think Obama does not recognize or acknowledge, nor is he likely to do so should he be elected President.

 

[jillian]

I simply have not seen any evidence to support your theory here. When a contractor loses a bid to another contractor who can bid low because he hires illegals, it isn't scapegoating to believe that the illegals are causing a problem. Jews and Blacks aren't outsiders, however, and yes there are people who still hold prejudices against people because they are black or Jewish or gay or female or Republican or work for an oil company or play the accordian, but such people are simply idiots and, thankfully, are in a distinct minority. But it is not scapegoating when your kids receive a poorer quality education and you observe that this is because so many resources are targeted for this minority or that minority group. It is normal to feel resentful that your kid is actually punished if you happen to be successful and productive and are contributing to society instead of leaching from it.

And it is also not scapegoating to resent when the tax laws and rules and regulations and environmental terrorism or whatever makes doing business elsewhere, perhaps in some other country, attractive to a small town's primary industry and it moves out. And it is not scapegoating to know that the more the federal government meddles with it all, the more that kind of thing is likely to happen.

These are all things that I think Obama does not recognize or acknowledge, nor is he likely to do so should he be elected President.

On the other hand, perhaps instead of focusing on illegal immigrants, the person would be wiser to focus on the government that gave corporations tax incentives for off-shoring, which is REALLY what removed manufacturing jobs from this country. Or focus on the government for not requiring a living wage to be paid to illegals so that there is a benefit to the business that uses their efforts. See, there's more than one way to approach a problem. I think he was just noting that many approach it by scapegoating.

I know you believe what you said about Jews and blacks. But I think there's a long way to go; I think this campaign has brought out an undercurrent of racism that is very sad. As for the Jewish issue, I think a quick review of all the comments on this site about "jews running the country", "jews running our foreign policy" BS about noahides and calling zionists "nazis" would belie your assumption that it is rare. I've actually been astounded, and to be fair, quite frightened, by some of the things I've read on that subject.

As for "environmental terrorism". I doubt you and I will come close to any type of agreement on that subject, because I don't believe that controls on corporations' ability to pollute is wrong. In fact, we don't control that enough... (which is why we have so many superfund sites).

So, while I thank you for a post that made me think, ultimately, I feel it's just a different way of seeing the world. And it's fair for people to make choices about their leaders based on those differences.

Me? I'd like a president who I don't see as destroying our Constitution; or moving us toward WWIII because he's ready for the Armageddon; who isn't ignorant of the world and the need for diplomacy; who doesn't want to create a theocracy; and who understands economic policy; the other issues work themselves out, IMO. So, again, I think it's about priorities and what we're looking for from our leaders.

 

[Foxfyre]

On the other hand, perhaps instead of focusing on illegal immigrants, the person would be wiser to focus on the government that gave corporations tax incentives for off-shoring, which is REALLY what removed manufacturing jobs from this country. Or focus on the government for not requiring a living wage to be paid to illegals so that there is a benefit to the business that uses their efforts. See, there's more than one way to approach a problem. I think he was just noting that many approach it by scapegoating.

No, off shoring is definitely a red herring when it comes to analyzing construction jobs and bids. We were talking construction, not manufacturing. Try to focus here please. When it comes to illegals, however, almost any kind of work can apply. When they rounded up and ejected the illegals from those Nebraska meat packing plants, the employers were forced to raise wages for everybody to attract legal workers. The result may be that you pay 10 cents/lb more for your Tbone steak, but ALL workers in those plants have benefitted plus also the communities around them who benefit from increased wealth and buying power of their citizens.

I know you believe what you said about Jews and blacks. But I think there's a long way to go; I think this campaign has brought out an undercurrent of racism that is very sad. As for the Jewish issue, I think a quick review of all the comments on this site about "jews running the country", "jews running our foreign policy" BS about noahides and calling zionists "nazis" would belie your assumption that it is rare. I've actually been astounded, and to be fair, quite frightened, by some of the things I've read on that subject.

Racism will never be eliminated in this country as long as people keep insisting on dividing people into demographic groups according to color, ethnicity, religion, or whatever. Until we do away with political correctness and allow people to treat everybody exactly the same and hold everybody to the same standards expected of everybody else there will always be those who use a particular demographic label for social, political, or personal advantage or use it as an excuse or crutch. Obama probably can't see it in himself, but he is as guilty as anybody out there in perpetuating this kind of thing.

As for "environmental terrorism". I doubt you and I will come close to any type of agreement on that subject, because I don't believe that controls on corporations' ability to pollute is wrong. In fact, we don't control that enough... (which is why we have so many superfund sites).

Nobody is saying that anybody should be allowed to pollute or damage the environment with impunity. But neither should the environmentalist wackos be able to block necessary production of energy in this country out of some misguided notions that this will damage our environment. The oil companies, etc. have demonstrated that they know how to get it done with minimal environmental impact--in fact they have been at the forefront of devising ways to do it in environmentally friendly ways. Poverty is far more devastating to the environment than is prosperity. If you don't believe me, simply visit any area with large numbers of impoverished people and see what conditions exist with the soil, water, air, etc. It will make you believe that Exxon or Conocophillips are environmental saints.

So, while I thank you for a post that made me think, ultimately, I feel it's just a different way of seeing the world. And it's fair for people to make choices about their leaders based on those differences.

No disagreement from me here. (Though I of course believe I am right.)

Me? I'd like a president who I don't see as destroying our Constitution; or moving us toward WWIII because he's ready for the Armageddon; who isn't ignorant of the world and the need for diplomacy; who doesn't want to create a theocracy; and who understands economic policy; the other issues work themselves out, IMO. So, again, I think it's about priorities and what we're looking for from our leaders.

\

No disagreement from me here either. In fact I believe we are probably in 100% agreement on the narrow definition here.

 

[Truthmatters]

"When I go around and I talk to people, there is frustration, and there is anger, and there is bitterness," Obama began. "I want to make a point here."

"[Pennsylvanians are] frustrated and for good reason, because for the last 25 years they’ve seen jobs shipped overseas, they’ve seen their economies collapse. They have lost their jobs, they’ve lost their pensions. They’ve lost their health care."


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/11/obama-defends-bitter-remarks/

 

[JimH52]

Obama hurt himself in Penn with this statement and you think it will be used against him in the general election? Of course it will. McCain is already jumping on this.

 

[jillian]

No, off shoring is definitely a red herring when it comes to analyzing construction jobs and bids. We were talking construction, not manufacturing. Try to focus here please. When it comes to illegals, however, almost any kind of work can apply. When they rounded up and ejected the illegals from those Nebraska meat packing plants, the employers were forced to raise wages for everybody to attract legal workers. The result may be that you pay 10 cents/lb more for your Tbone steak, but ALL workers in those plants have benefitted plus also the communities around them who benefit from increased wealth and buying power of their citizens.

You were talking construction. But there is more than one kind of industry. And, frankly, manufacturing was always more important to our economy. I'm afraid I also have no issues with the people who do our gardening, take care of our kids and pick our vegetables and fruits. It's not that I'm not mindful of your concerns, but the whole "oh my goodness, the illegals are coming" mentality escapes me. I do think though that it's time for people's wages to be living wages. But that requires government intervention.

Racism will never be eliminated in this country as long as people keep insisting on dividing people into demographic groups according to color, ethnicity, religion, or whatever. Until we do away with political correctness and allow people to treat everybody exactly the same and hold everybody to the same standards expected of everybody else there will always be those who use a particular demographic label for social, political, or personal advantage or use it as an excuse or crutch. Obama probably can't see it in himself, but he is as guilty as anybody out there in perpetuating this kind of thing.

Racism will never be elminated unless we educate our children about tolerance. But every time that is discussed, the right gets insane and says their children are being corrupted. I also disagree with you about Obama. I think that's something that's been assigned to him. No one becomes editor of Harvard Law Review by way of affirmative action.

Nobody is saying that anybody should be allowed to pollute or damage the environment with impunity. But neither should the environmentalist wackos be able to block necessary production of energy in this country out of some misguided notions that this will damage our environment. The oil companies, etc. have demonstrated that they know how to get it done with minimal environmental impact--in fact they have been at the forefront of devising ways to do it in environmentally friendly ways. Poverty is far more devastating to the environment than is prosperity. If you don't believe me, simply visit any area with large numbers of impoverished people and see what conditions exist with the soil, water, air, etc. It will make you believe that Exxon or Conocophillips are environmental saints.

What's an environmental wacko? Someone who believes we need to reduce our carbon footprint in order to try to stem climate change? I'm afraid the argument that people live badly where there is poverty is a specious one. Although, I believe we're going to have to deal with that issue, too.

No disagreement from me here. (Though I of course believe I am right.)

Well, if we didn't each believe we're right, we'd change our positions.

No disagreement from me here either. In fact I believe we are probably in 100% agreement on the narrow definition here.

Although I'm fairly sure we arrive at separate conclusions.

But nice discussing these issues with you.

 

[Truthmatters]

This is such a phoney non issue that it will come back to bite anyone who tries to make a big deal out of it.

 

[Swamp Fox]

"When I go around and I talk to people, there is frustration, and there is anger, and there is bitterness," Obama began. "I want to make a point here."

"[Pennsylvanians are] frustrated and for good reason, because for the last 25 years they’ve seen jobs shipped overseas, they’ve seen their economies collapse. They have lost their jobs, they’ve lost their pensions. They’ve lost their health care."


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/11/obama-defends-bitter-remarks/

Because their state sucks, they tax too much and people and business have moved to where it is cheaper to operate. Ease up on taxes and regulations to make it a business friendly place and the businesses will come back.

 

[Larkinn]

Because their state sucks, they tax too much and people and business have moved to where it is cheaper to operate. Ease up on taxes and regulations to make it a business friendly place and the businesses will come back.

Ahhh, a race to the bottom.

Lets see how long it takes for Americans to be working in the same conditions as those joyful workers at Chinese and Indian factories. Fun, fun.