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Not all colleges are 35K a year.. and even in your time you were not going to work your way thru MIT or Yale on a minimum wage job
but nice try
At the time I was paying tuition at a State University of $650 a year. A private university was $2000 to $3000 a year and Ivy League was around $4000 tuition.
Working your way through college in the 1970s was relatively easy even with minimum wage jobs. Today, you are looking at debt regardless of how industrious you may be.
The point is that minimum wage has not kept up with the cost of living and Colleges (both public and private ) have escalated their costs
Bravo to your work ethic.
Too bad you stopped considering alternatives.
1. For a real-world perspective on the American ethic, find the Alan Shepard book, Scratch Beginnings, in which the author recounts his own social experiment, at age 24, starting out at the lowest rung of the economic ladder. The question: could he conquer poverty in one year at his best efforts?
2. He left his home with nothing but a tarp, sleeping bag, an empty gym bag, the clothes on his back, and $25. The went to Charleston, South Carolina a city where he had never been before, and where he knew nobody. He didnt use his college education as a resume, nor any family or other contacts.
3. The first night he finds the Crisis Ministries homeless shelter, and, next morning, begins working odd jobs. Within a few weeks, he gets a regular job with a moving company. He moonlights on weekends to make extra money.
4. He makes friends and contacts, and these help him to find jobs and housing Within five months, he gets a raise from the moving company to $10/ hour. And another, to $11/hour in less than nine months.
5. Progress was retarded by breaking his foot on the job, yet by three months he was able to move out of the homeless shelter and rent a room in a large house in an upscale part of town. (It was owned by a friend he met while working a second job on weekends.) Then, just a month later, he moved into a two-bedroom duplex with the cousin of one of his co-workers. It was a bit rundown, so the two of them spent a week-end making it like new. (His share was $325 because he took the master bedroom.)
6. After just ten months he was living in his own furnished apartment, with his own car, and he had $5,300 in savings.
a. The book also tells of other low-income people he met, and how they, also, would like a safety net second to their own work,
"Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream" [Paperback]
Adam W. Shepard (Author)
Stop cryin,' start tryin.'
Regardless, student loans are a major burden on college graduates today. starting out life with meager employment prospects and a major debt to pay is rough. And yes, both he President and his wife had to pay off significant debt. Law degrees do not come cheaply
At the time I was paying tuition at a State University of $650 a year. A private university was $2000 to $3000 a year and Ivy League was around $4000 tuition.
Working your way through college in the 1970s was relatively easy even with minimum wage jobs. Today, you are looking at debt regardless of how industrious you may be.
The point is that minimum wage has not kept up with the cost of living and Colleges (both public and private ) have escalated their costs
Bravo to your work ethic.
Too bad you stopped considering alternatives.
1. For a real-world perspective on the American ethic, find the Alan Shepard book, Scratch Beginnings, in which the author recounts his own social experiment, at age 24, starting out at the lowest rung of the economic ladder. The question: could he conquer poverty in one year at his best efforts?
2. He left his home with nothing but a tarp, sleeping bag, an empty gym bag, the clothes on his back, and $25. The went to Charleston, South Carolina a city where he had never been before, and where he knew nobody. He didnt use his college education as a resume, nor any family or other contacts.
3. The first night he finds the Crisis Ministries homeless shelter, and, next morning, begins working odd jobs. Within a few weeks, he gets a regular job with a moving company. He moonlights on weekends to make extra money.
4. He makes friends and contacts, and these help him to find jobs and housing Within five months, he gets a raise from the moving company to $10/ hour. And another, to $11/hour in less than nine months.
5. Progress was retarded by breaking his foot on the job, yet by three months he was able to move out of the homeless shelter and rent a room in a large house in an upscale part of town. (It was owned by a friend he met while working a second job on weekends.) Then, just a month later, he moved into a two-bedroom duplex with the cousin of one of his co-workers. It was a bit rundown, so the two of them spent a week-end making it like new. (His share was $325 because he took the master bedroom.)
6. After just ten months he was living in his own furnished apartment, with his own car, and he had $5,300 in savings.
a. The book also tells of other low-income people he met, and how they, also, would like a safety net second to their own work,
"Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream" [Paperback]
Adam W. Shepard (Author)
Stop cryin,' start tryin.'
Big deal.....I'm not impressed
I could have done the same thing when I was 24. At the time, I had a college education and business experience .........not to mention immense charm and stunning good looks
But I am not naive enough to think that just because I could have done it at 24 therefore every American could do the same
At the time I was paying tuition at a State University of $650 a year. A private university was $2000 to $3000 a year and Ivy League was around $4000 tuition.
Working your way through college in the 1970s was relatively easy even with minimum wage jobs. Today, you are looking at debt regardless of how industrious you may be.
The point is that minimum wage has not kept up with the cost of living and Colleges (both public and private ) have escalated their costs
Bravo to your work ethic.
Too bad you stopped considering alternatives.
1. For a real-world perspective on the American ethic, find the Alan Shepard book, Scratch Beginnings, in which the author recounts his own social experiment, at age 24, starting out at the lowest rung of the economic ladder. The question: could he conquer poverty in one year at his best efforts?
2. He left his home with nothing but a tarp, sleeping bag, an empty gym bag, the clothes on his back, and $25. The went to Charleston, South Carolina a city where he had never been before, and where he knew nobody. He didnt use his college education as a resume, nor any family or other contacts.
3. The first night he finds the Crisis Ministries homeless shelter, and, next morning, begins working odd jobs. Within a few weeks, he gets a regular job with a moving company. He moonlights on weekends to make extra money.
4. He makes friends and contacts, and these help him to find jobs and housing Within five months, he gets a raise from the moving company to $10/ hour. And another, to $11/hour in less than nine months.
5. Progress was retarded by breaking his foot on the job, yet by three months he was able to move out of the homeless shelter and rent a room in a large house in an upscale part of town. (It was owned by a friend he met while working a second job on weekends.) Then, just a month later, he moved into a two-bedroom duplex with the cousin of one of his co-workers. It was a bit rundown, so the two of them spent a week-end making it like new. (His share was $325 because he took the master bedroom.)
6. After just ten months he was living in his own furnished apartment, with his own car, and he had $5,300 in savings.
a. The book also tells of other low-income people he met, and how they, also, would like a safety net second to their own work,
"Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream" [Paperback]
Adam W. Shepard (Author)
Stop cryin,' start tryin.'
Big deal.....I'm not impressed
I could have done the same thing when I was 24. At the time, I had a college education and business experience .........not to mention immense charm and stunning good looks
But I am not naive enough to think that just because I could have done it at 24 therefore every American could do the same
Bravo to your work ethic.
Too bad you stopped considering alternatives.
1. For a real-world perspective on the American ethic, find the Alan Shepard book, Scratch Beginnings, in which the author recounts his own social experiment, at age 24, starting out at the lowest rung of the economic ladder. The question: could he conquer poverty in one year at his best efforts?
2. He left his home with nothing but a tarp, sleeping bag, an empty gym bag, the clothes on his back, and $25. The went to Charleston, South Carolina a city where he had never been before, and where he knew nobody. He didnt use his college education as a resume, nor any family or other contacts.
3. The first night he finds the Crisis Ministries homeless shelter, and, next morning, begins working odd jobs. Within a few weeks, he gets a regular job with a moving company. He moonlights on weekends to make extra money.
4. He makes friends and contacts, and these help him to find jobs and housing Within five months, he gets a raise from the moving company to $10/ hour. And another, to $11/hour in less than nine months.
5. Progress was retarded by breaking his foot on the job, yet by three months he was able to move out of the homeless shelter and rent a room in a large house in an upscale part of town. (It was owned by a friend he met while working a second job on weekends.) Then, just a month later, he moved into a two-bedroom duplex with the cousin of one of his co-workers. It was a bit rundown, so the two of them spent a week-end making it like new. (His share was $325 because he took the master bedroom.)
6. After just ten months he was living in his own furnished apartment, with his own car, and he had $5,300 in savings.
a. The book also tells of other low-income people he met, and how they, also, would like a safety net second to their own work,
"Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream" [Paperback]
Adam W. Shepard (Author)
Stop cryin,' start tryin.'
Big deal.....I'm not impressed
I could have done the same thing when I was 24. At the time, I had a college education and business experience .........not to mention immense charm and stunning good looks
But I am not naive enough to think that just because I could have done it at 24 therefore every American could do the same
And that folks is why defeatist are statists. It's just too darn hard and anyway, they deserve what they want. Somebody, somewhere should do something! Hey I know, the government can. Isn't that what they are for?
At the time I was paying tuition at a State University of $650 a year. A private university was $2000 to $3000 a year and Ivy League was around $4000 tuition.
Working your way through college in the 1970s was relatively easy even with minimum wage jobs. Today, you are looking at debt regardless of how industrious you may be.
The point is that minimum wage has not kept up with the cost of living and Colleges (both public and private ) have escalated their costs
I think you have a very valid point. The cost of higher education has grossly outpaced the rate of inflation, particularly over the past decade, and as a result few people can do today what you did 30-40 years ago. Hell, even in the 90s it wasn't as bad. My father had moved out to Las Vegas in 93. My older brother graduated high school in 94 and moved out there with my dad. He only needed to live there for six months to establish residency and then was able to get the in state tuition rate of $2500 year at UNLV. You can't find that any more.
It's getting near impossible for someone to pay their way through school if they're enrolled full time. It's certainly doable if you go part time, but it's going to take much longer.
So it takes longer. So it's tougher for the kid who doesn't have wealthy parents or a sugar daddy willing to finance his/her education. So maybe you have to buy a Kia instead of the Lexus. It is still doable.
In 1965 tuition and fees at Harvard was about $1800/term or $5,400/year if you went year round full time. That might as well have been a million for the family earning $15,000/year which would have been pretty average back then. Without pretty much a full scholarship, the poor kid wasn't going to go there.
In 1990 tuition at Harvard Law, the year Obama presumably graduated, was $13,400/year. Again prohibitive for the average American family at that time but nevertheless, if Obama had taken out the full $40,000 in student loans to finance three years of Law school, $40,000 is a pretty modest student loan balance to pay off these days.
The tuition at Harvard now averages about $35,000/year. Without pretty much a full scholarship or somebody to otherwise bankroll that, the poor kid isn't going to go there with or without student loans. And those full scholarships are tough to get as the admission standards are extrenely high.
So did Obama get into Harvard Law as my family member got into Stanford? By graduating Magna cum Laude with additional credentials from an undergraduate school and therefore meriting a full scholarship to continue his education?
Anybody want to offer any odds on that?
I think you have a very valid point. The cost of higher education has grossly outpaced the rate of inflation, particularly over the past decade, and as a result few people can do today what you did 30-40 years ago. Hell, even in the 90s it wasn't as bad. My father had moved out to Las Vegas in 93. My older brother graduated high school in 94 and moved out there with my dad. He only needed to live there for six months to establish residency and then was able to get the in state tuition rate of $2500 year at UNLV. You can't find that any more.
It's getting near impossible for someone to pay their way through school if they're enrolled full time. It's certainly doable if you go part time, but it's going to take much longer.
So it takes longer. So it's tougher for the kid who doesn't have wealthy parents or a sugar daddy willing to finance his/her education. So maybe you have to buy a Kia instead of the Lexus. It is still doable.
In 1965 tuition and fees at Harvard was about $1800/term or $5,400/year if you went year round full time. That might as well have been a million for the family earning $15,000/year which would have been pretty average back then. Without pretty much a full scholarship, the poor kid wasn't going to go there.
In 1990 tuition at Harvard Law, the year Obama presumably graduated, was $13,400/year. Again prohibitive for the average American family at that time but nevertheless, if Obama had taken out the full $40,000 in student loans to finance three years of Law school, $40,000 is a pretty modest student loan balance to pay off these days.
The tuition at Harvard now averages about $35,000/year. Without pretty much a full scholarship or somebody to otherwise bankroll that, the poor kid isn't going to go there with or without student loans. And those full scholarships are tough to get as the admission standards are extrenely high.
So did Obama get into Harvard Law as my family member got into Stanford? By graduating Magna cum Laude with additional credentials from an undergraduate school and therefore meriting a full scholarship to continue his education?
Anybody want to offer any odds on that?
You guys continue to bring up Ivy League schools and that is not what RW and I are talking about. I'm talking about the cost of the regular old state university.
The difference is that Obama wants to make sure you're in debt, Romney wants to make sure you're employed.
It's a difference in living a government centered life or a real life
The difference is that Obama wants to make sure you're in debt, Romney wants to make sure you're employed.
It's a difference in living a government centered life or a real life
It's sad seeing people make partisan stupid comments as you just did.
I think you have a very valid point. The cost of higher education has grossly outpaced the rate of inflation, particularly over the past decade, and as a result few people can do today what you did 30-40 years ago. Hell, even in the 90s it wasn't as bad. My father had moved out to Las Vegas in 93. My older brother graduated high school in 94 and moved out there with my dad. He only needed to live there for six months to establish residency and then was able to get the in state tuition rate of $2500 year at UNLV. You can't find that any more.
It's getting near impossible for someone to pay their way through school if they're enrolled full time. It's certainly doable if you go part time, but it's going to take much longer.
So it takes longer. So it's tougher for the kid who doesn't have wealthy parents or a sugar daddy willing to finance his/her education. So maybe you have to buy a Kia instead of the Lexus. It is still doable.
In 1965 tuition and fees at Harvard was about $1800/term or $5,400/year if you went year round full time. That might as well have been a million for the family earning $15,000/year which would have been pretty average back then. Without pretty much a full scholarship, the poor kid wasn't going to go there.
In 1990 tuition at Harvard Law, the year Obama presumably graduated, was $13,400/year. Again prohibitive for the average American family at that time but nevertheless, if Obama had taken out the full $40,000 in student loans to finance three years of Law school, $40,000 is a pretty modest student loan balance to pay off these days.
The tuition at Harvard now averages about $35,000/year. Without pretty much a full scholarship or somebody to otherwise bankroll that, the poor kid isn't going to go there with or without student loans. And those full scholarships are tough to get as the admission standards are extrenely high.
So did Obama get into Harvard Law as my family member got into Stanford? By graduating Magna cum Laude with additional credentials from an undergraduate school and therefore meriting a full scholarship to continue his education?
Anybody want to offer any odds on that?
You guys continue to bring up Ivy League schools and that is not what RW and I are talking about. I'm talking about the cost of the regular old state university.
"This analysis yields the following tips for graduating with an undergraduate degree and no debt:
Enroll at an in-state public college. 85% of undergraduate students who graduate with no debt
graduated from public colleges, with almost 78% enrolled in an in-state public college. State
appropriations help public colleges keep tuition low for state residents.
Do not enroll at a for-profit college. Less than 7% of students enrolled in for-profit colleges
graduated with no debt, compared with 30% at non-profit colleges and 51% at public colleges.
Enroll in a 2-year or shorter program. Half of students who graduate with no debt graduated
from a community college. (A third graduated from a public 4-year college.) 61% of students
receiving an Associates degree from a public college graduated with no debt. 68% of students
receiving a Certificate from a public college graduated with no debt. This compares with slightly
more than a third of students receiving a Bachelors degree.
Enroll in a low-cost college. 88% of students who graduate with no debt graduated from a
college with tuition and fees under $10,000. 57% graduated from a college with a total cost of
attendance under $10,000 and 86% graduated from colleges with a total cost of attendance under
$20,000.
Spend less on textbooks. Three quarters of students who graduate without debt spent $1,000 or
less per year on textbooks.
Live at home with your parents. Students who live at home with their parents are more likely to
graduate without debt than other students. (Better to have a child live at home while enrolled in
college than to be forced to live at home after graduating from college because of too much debt.)
Choose your parents wisely. 56% of upper-income undergraduate students graduated with no
debt, compared with 36% of low-income students and 45% of middle-income students. Students
whose parents have advanced degrees are more likely to graduate without debt, probably because
their parents have higher average income. More than two thirds of students who graduated
without debt receive help paying for tuition and fees from their parents. A small percentage of - 2 -
students graduated with no federal or private student loan debt because their parents borrowed
from the Parent PLUS loan program instead."
http://www.fastweb.com/nfs/fastweb/static/PDFs/Graduating_without_debt.pdf
Here's one more:
ROTC....
.....imagine going to college with the idea of serving your country, rather than looking to have your neighbors pay for your college.....
You guys continue to bring up Ivy League schools and that is not what RW and I are talking about. I'm talking about the cost of the regular old state university.
I showed you in another thread that starting with Reagan's cuts, we as a nation stopped investing in infrastructure. Even intellectual infrastructure. So back in the day a kid could pay for college with a summer job, but now they have to take on life altering debt just to go to college. Things are out of wack and its because of right wing cuts. And meanwhile, what did Reagan save us? Nothing. He still doubled the debt. On war. On corporations. Just not on We the People.
But the corporations are doing better than ever. That's good, huh?
I think you have a very valid point. The cost of higher education has grossly outpaced the rate of inflation, particularly over the past decade, and as a result few people can do today what you did 30-40 years ago. Hell, even in the 90s it wasn't as bad. My father had moved out to Las Vegas in 93. My older brother graduated high school in 94 and moved out there with my dad. He only needed to live there for six months to establish residency and then was able to get the in state tuition rate of $2500 year at UNLV. You can't find that any more.
It's getting near impossible for someone to pay their way through school if they're enrolled full time. It's certainly doable if you go part time, but it's going to take much longer.
So it takes longer. So it's tougher for the kid who doesn't have wealthy parents or a sugar daddy willing to finance his/her education. So maybe you have to buy a Kia instead of the Lexus. It is still doable.
In 1965 tuition and fees at Harvard was about $1800/term or $5,400/year if you went year round full time. That might as well have been a million for the family earning $15,000/year which would have been pretty average back then. Without pretty much a full scholarship, the poor kid wasn't going to go there.
In 1990 tuition at Harvard Law, the year Obama presumably graduated, was $13,400/year. Again prohibitive for the average American family at that time but nevertheless, if Obama had taken out the full $40,000 in student loans to finance three years of Law school, $40,000 is a pretty modest student loan balance to pay off these days.
The tuition at Harvard now averages about $35,000/year. Without pretty much a full scholarship or somebody to otherwise bankroll that, the poor kid isn't going to go there with or without student loans. And those full scholarships are tough to get as the admission standards are extrenely high.
So did Obama get into Harvard Law as my family member got into Stanford? By graduating Magna cum Laude with additional credentials from an undergraduate school and therefore meriting a full scholarship to continue his education?
Anybody want to offer any odds on that?
You guys continue to bring up Ivy League schools and that is not what RW and I are talking about. I'm talking about the cost of the regular old state university.
"This analysis yields the following tips for graduating with an undergraduate degree and no debt:
Enroll at an in-state public college. 85% of undergraduate students who graduate with no debt
graduated from public colleges, with almost 78% enrolled in an in-state public college. State
appropriations help public colleges keep tuition low for state residents.
Do not enroll at a for-profit college. Less than 7% of students enrolled in for-profit colleges
graduated with no debt, compared with 30% at non-profit colleges and 51% at public colleges.
Enroll in a 2-year or shorter program. Half of students who graduate with no debt graduated
from a community college. (A third graduated from a public 4-year college.) 61% of students
receiving an Associates degree from a public college graduated with no debt. 68% of students
receiving a Certificate from a public college graduated with no debt. This compares with slightly
more than a third of students receiving a Bachelors degree.
Enroll in a low-cost college. 88% of students who graduate with no debt graduated from a
college with tuition and fees under $10,000. 57% graduated from a college with a total cost of
attendance under $10,000 and 86% graduated from colleges with a total cost of attendance under
$20,000.
Spend less on textbooks. Three quarters of students who graduate without debt spent $1,000 or
less per year on textbooks.
Live at home with your parents. Students who live at home with their parents are more likely to
graduate without debt than other students. (Better to have a child live at home while enrolled in
college than to be forced to live at home after graduating from college because of too much debt.)
Choose your parents wisely. 56% of upper-income undergraduate students graduated with no
debt, compared with 36% of low-income students and 45% of middle-income students. Students
whose parents have advanced degrees are more likely to graduate without debt, probably because
their parents have higher average income. More than two thirds of students who graduated
without debt receive help paying for tuition and fees from their parents. A small percentage of - 2 -
students graduated with no federal or private student loan debt because their parents borrowed
from the Parent PLUS loan program instead."
http://www.fastweb.com/nfs/fastweb/static/PDFs/Graduating_without_debt.pdf
Here's one more:
ROTC....
.....imagine going to college with the idea of serving your country, rather than looking to have your neighbors pay for your college.....
It says right at the end of your stats that more than 2/3 of those who graduated without debt did so because they received assistance from their parents. Well, no kidding. That changes the whole equation. Again, we're not talking about that. We're talking about people still having the capability to put themselves through college by means of their own working income without taking out loans to do so. I'm not saying it's still not possible to do in some cases, but the point is that it's becoming incredibly more difficult to pull off because of the rapidly rising costs of higher education. It's nowhere near as easy as it was 20 or 30 years ago.
I've been talking about that too. And used examples to show how it may be tough and require personal sacrifice, but it is still quite doable to put yourself thorugh he local state university. Most especially if you live in a state college town. After considering all the pros and cons, my granddaughter helped her parents out by opting to live at home and go to the local junior college for the first two years. She also took as many courses as she could get on line from West Texas A&M where she intended to get her degree.
She is now at WT A&M and will easily finish there in two years or less. Because of how they did it, using her savings from work and with help from her parents, she will not have a large amount of student loans by the time she graduates. We all have been willing to help her, but it was compoletely doable if she had had to do it on her own too.
Bravo to your work ethic.
Too bad you stopped considering alternatives.
1. For a real-world perspective on the American ethic, find the Alan Shepard book, Scratch Beginnings, in which the author recounts his own social experiment, at age 24, starting out at the lowest rung of the economic ladder. The question: could he conquer poverty in one year at his best efforts?
2. He left his home with nothing but a tarp, sleeping bag, an empty gym bag, the clothes on his back, and $25. The went to Charleston, South Carolina a city where he had never been before, and where he knew nobody. He didnt use his college education as a resume, nor any family or other contacts.
3. The first night he finds the Crisis Ministries homeless shelter, and, next morning, begins working odd jobs. Within a few weeks, he gets a regular job with a moving company. He moonlights on weekends to make extra money.
4. He makes friends and contacts, and these help him to find jobs and housing Within five months, he gets a raise from the moving company to $10/ hour. And another, to $11/hour in less than nine months.
5. Progress was retarded by breaking his foot on the job, yet by three months he was able to move out of the homeless shelter and rent a room in a large house in an upscale part of town. (It was owned by a friend he met while working a second job on weekends.) Then, just a month later, he moved into a two-bedroom duplex with the cousin of one of his co-workers. It was a bit rundown, so the two of them spent a week-end making it like new. (His share was $325 because he took the master bedroom.)
6. After just ten months he was living in his own furnished apartment, with his own car, and he had $5,300 in savings.
a. The book also tells of other low-income people he met, and how they, also, would like a safety net second to their own work,
"Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream" [Paperback]
Adam W. Shepard (Author)
Stop cryin,' start tryin.'
Big deal.....I'm not impressed
I could have done the same thing when I was 24. At the time, I had a college education and business experience .........not to mention immense charm and stunning good looks
But I am not naive enough to think that just because I could have done it at 24 therefore every American could do the same
Somehow, you're more capable than this generation?
I'll withhold my analysis on that count.
Possibly you've heard this:
Our ideals resemble the stars, which illuminate the night. NO one will ever be able to touch them. But the men, who, like the sailors on the ocean, take them for guidelines, will undoubtedly reach their goal.
Carl Schurz
America's greatness is due to folks like the immigrant above, who believed in striving, working towards a goal.
The 'give-up' attitude that you have developed, hiding it behind "I am not naive enough" falls far short of Schurz's advice.
There's 'can-do,' and there is the sad defeatist 'can't do.'
You....?
