Obama and Biden very anti Gun owner, and Gun Rights .

[AllieBaba]

kirk's right on this, hjmick. a car isnt made to kill people. neither is a bat, nor most (kitchen) knives. but a gun? the primary use of a gun is to kill a person or an animal. youre trying to paint a gun as being a typical household item, which it isnt. it is made to inflict damage. not to get around town, hit a ball, or cut vegetables and meat.

And again..so what? Who are you to decide what people should be interested in, and be allowed to pursue? Shall we ban education so men can't develop weapons? Because I mean, really, molecular science really has no practical application, does it?

People in this country do not get to dictate to others what they can or should be interested in, or what they may do with their free time, so long as nobody is having their rights violated. A gun is made for killing, and we have guns in my family. How exactly does that violate your rights? It doesn't. I'll bet you have a cell phone and a land line. I currently have neither...and I don't like land lines. SHall I dictate that you get rid of yours? AFter all, they're useless to me, and I just don't like them.

Likewise 4-wheelers. I hate them. They're dangerous. They're useless, at least in the capacity that most of them are used. What say we get rid of all of them?

In a republic, this is not the way things work. You do not get to dictate the way I live my life. You do not get to decide for me whether my pastimes are valid or worthwhile. It's none of your business.

 

[busara]

And again..so what? Who are you to decide what people should be interested in, and be allowed to pursue? Shall we ban education so men can't develop weapons? Because I mean, really, molecular science really has no practical application, does it?

People in this country do not get to dictate to others what they can or should be interested in, or what they may do with their free time, so long as nobody is having their rights violated. A gun is made for killing, and we have guns in my family. How exactly does that violate your rights? It doesn't. I'll bet you have a cell phone and a land line. I currently have neither...and I don't like land lines. SHall I dictate that you get rid of yours? AFter all, they're useless to me, and I just don't like them.

Likewise 4-wheelers. I hate them. They're dangerous. They're useless, at least in the capacity that most of them are used. What say we get rid of all of them?

In a republic, this is not the way things work. You do not get to dictate the way I live my life. You do not get to decide for me whether my pastimes are valid or worthwhile. It's none of your business.

did i say guns should be taken away? sorry, you just wasted your time, but i was merely showing the flaws in hjmicks argument

 

[Eightball]

One million Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

Let's go for two million!

Your point?

 

[Chris]

Your point?

Post of the year!

 

[Chris]

How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, n how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, n how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin in the wind,
The answer is blowin in the wind.

 

[Denny Crane]

I do however get sick of being labeled as stupid, ignorant, twisted and backwards by people who want to limit my personal freedom based on their own lack of information and exposure to the world around them.

I can understand that but it's not me saying those things. Other than the pro-gun advocates saying the governments wants to take our guns I don't see any government agencies actually pulling guns from anyones cold dead hands. I do see them making it harder for criminals to buy them, and there are some laws looking to close loopholes where laws are concerned.

Other than that I don't see what the fuss is. If we enforce the gun laws in place I see no need to enact more.

This is a wedge issues that comes up every election cycle but I haven't seen many arms being taken from law abiding citizens.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's because every election has some yahoo who wants to eliminate private gun ownership....this time it's Obama.

 

[hjmick]

kirk's right on this, hjmick. a car isnt made to kill people. neither is a bat, nor most (kitchen) knives. but a gun? the primary use of a gun is to kill a person or an animal. youre trying to paint a gun as being a typical household item, which it isnt. it is made to inflict damage. not to get around town, hit a ball, or cut vegetables and meat.

While this is true, I know of no one who legally owns a gun with the intent to kill another person. I know that I have no desire to kill anyone, yet I currently own two guns. Though I am perfectly willing to defend my family and myself, it is only as a last resort that I would consider taking a life.

The idea that banning a person's right to own guns is going to solve the problems Kirk, and most who would deny us the right, seek to cure in naive at best. Address the criminal element, not the law abiding gun owners. We are a threat to no one. Use the numerous laws that are currently on the books, do not pass new ones. A gun is a tool. A tool that can kill. Just like a car, a knife, a hammer, your hands, or a bat. It's how the tool is used that makes the difference.

 

[Chris]

It's because every election has some yahoo who wants to eliminate private gun ownership....this time it's Obama.

More lies...is that all you have is lies and bullsh*t?

Show a link where Obama wants to eliminate private gun ownership.

 

[busara]

While this is true, I know of no one who legally owns a gun with the intent to kill another person. I know that I have no desire to kill anyone, yet I currently own two guns. Though I am perfectly willing to defend my family and myself, it is only as a last resort that I would consider taking a life.

The idea that banning a person's right to own guns is going to solve the problems Kirk, and most who would deny us the right, seek to cure in naive at best. Address the criminal element, not the law abiding gun owners. We are a threat to no one. Use the numerous laws that are currently on the books, do not pass new ones. A gun is a tool. A tool that can kill. Just like a car, a knife, a hammer, your hands, or a bat. It's how the tool is used that makes the difference.

i agree that the problem is with people, not the gun itself. but you saying that a gun is no different than a car or a hammer is plain wrong, because the sole use for a gun is to inflict damage. whether you intend to do so is irrelevant. picture this: someone owns a breadmaker. they dont intend to use it to make bread. you can make bread without it. that doesnt change the fact that it's purpose is to make bread.

heres a question i have. you are so adament about keeping guns, why isnt there a push for other weapons? rpg's, land mines, tanks. do citizens have a right to that equipment as well? (i am all for upholding the constitution, im just curious as to response)

 

[AllieBaba]

More lies...is that all you have is lies and bullsh*t?

Show a link where Obama wants to eliminate private gun ownership.

I heard him say it.
I'll find a link, dumbass.
Ever find a link to verify that 1 million killed a year by guns, and that explains away the correlation between more stringent gun laws and higher crime rates?

 

[AllieBaba]

i agree that the problem is with people, not the gun itself. but you saying that a gun is no different than a car or a hammer is plain wrong, because the sole use for a gun is to inflict damage. whether you intend to do so is irrelevant. picture this: someone owns a breadmaker. they dont intend to use it to make bread. you can make bread without it. that doesnt change the fact that it's purpose is to make bread.

heres a question i have. you are so adament about keeping guns, why isnt there a push for other weapons? rpg's, land mines, tanks. do citizens have a right to that equipment as well? (i am all for upholding the constitution, im just curious as to response)

Because people don't want guns to invade. They want guns to protect themselves, and as a hobby.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yet while in the Illinois Legislature, he endorsed a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in that state, he favored denying gun ownership to anyone under age 21, and he supported banning ammunition sales.

Missoulian: Obama no friend of guns or the NRA
"Obama has explicitly stated he views Washington, D.C.’s handgun ban as consistent with the Second Amendment’s right for the individual to keep and bear arms, saying “just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can’t constrain the exercise of that right.”


Obama linked to gun control efforts - Kenneth P. Vogel - Politico.com
"But before he became a national political figure, he sat on the board of a Chicago-based foundation that doled out at least nine grants totaling nearly $2.7 million to groups that advocated the opposite positions.

The foundation funded legal scholarship advancing the theory that the Second Amendment does not protect individual gun owners’ rights, as well as two groups that advocated handgun bans. And it paid to support a book called “Every Handgun Is Aimed at You: The Case for Banning Handguns.”

 

[hjmick]

...but I haven't seen many arms being taken from law abiding citizens.

With all due respect...

How then do you explain the Federal Government initiating the total gun confiscation of law abiding citizens and forcibly removing them from their property in New Orleans during Katrina?

Mao and Hitler both banned guns. It is usually one of the first acts of dictators and communists, remove the ability of the populace to mount an effective revolt. Fear the government that fears your guns. Gun control makes the job of a dictator or corrupt government much easier.

Rome existed and flourished for centuries. Then, those in charge banned private ownership of weapons. This allowed tyranny and incompetence in government so bad that the nation fell in a generation. Granted this was not the sole reason for the collapse of Rome, but it certainly contributed the the decline. Fear the government that fears your guns.

Passing laws against robbery murder has not stopped people from robbing and murdering. Passing laws against guns will prevent law-abiding citizens from having them. This means you are more distrustful of law-abiding citizens than you are fearful of people whose career goal is to rob and murder. The police are not our private 24-hour personal bodyguards. There are not enough police to go around to each home. There are more criminals than police now, and the job of the police is normally after the fact. The responsibility to protect yourself and your family falls on your shoulders first and foremost. The right of a living creature to defend itself is a right granted by nature. It is not a privilege granted by law.

 

[strollingbones]

I hear they're planning on making us all carry guns wherever we go...even into the shower.

I also heard that McCain, not to be outgun-righted, is going to make us all carry flamethrowers.

you can get the recipe off the net...diseal and liquid dawn......and use a super soaker to make a flamethrower or go to the grassy creek gun show in oct..they have vendors who rents everything

 

[hjmick]

i agree that the problem is with people, not the gun itself. but you saying that a gun is no different than a car or a hammer is plain wrong, because the sole use for a gun is to inflict damage. whether you intend to do so is irrelevant. picture this: someone owns a breadmaker. they dont intend to use it to make bread. you can make bread without it. that doesnt change the fact that it's purpose is to make bread.

It's purpose is to make bread... or crush someone's skull!! LOL

I'm not saying a gun is no different than those things, I am simply saying that a gun is a tool in much the same way. How a tool is used and by whom determines what that tool does.

Look, don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to all the hoops I have to jump through in order to legally own a gun, and believe me when I say that those hoops are many here in California. I am opposed to revoking a right I consider to be at the foundation of our nation. I am no legal expert, not even close, but in much of my reading on the subject of the 2nd amendment I have come to believe that at least a portion of the intent was to serve as a reminder to the government about whom they serve. In a manner of speaking, it was meant, among other things, as a way for American citizens to prevent the rise of the type of tyranny they had just thrown off.

heres a question i have. you are so adament about keeping guns, why isnt there a push for other weapons? rpg's, land mines, tanks. do citizens have a right to that equipment as well? (i am all for upholding the constitution, im just curious as to response)

Those are weapons I have no desire to see in the hands of private citizens. Same goes for fully automatic weapons, at least in my book. I can see an argument for collectors, maybe. No one needs an AK-47 to hunt dear and I see no reason to mine my lawn.

 

[AllieBaba]

Once again, just because you don't understand doesn't give you the right to deny it to others.

I'm not for mining lawns either. But just sayin.

 

[Chris]

One million Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

Let's go for two million!

Honestly, do you read the posts here at all?

 

[Denny Crane]

With all due respect...

How then do you explain the Federal Government initiating the total gun confiscation of law abiding citizens and forcibly removing them from their property in New Orleans during Katrina?

I'm not familiar with what took place but I'll look into it then comment on it.

 

[Chris]

With all due respect...

How then do you explain the Federal Government initiating the total gun confiscation of law abiding citizens and forcibly removing them from their property in New Orleans during Katrina?

Mao and Hitler both banned guns. It is usually one of the first acts of dictators and communists, remove the ability of the populace to mount an effective revolt. Fear the government that fears your guns. Gun control makes the job of a dictator or corrupt government much easier.

Rome existed and flourished for centuries. Then, those in charge banned private ownership of weapons. This allowed tyranny and incompetence in government so bad that the nation fell in a generation. Granted this was not the sole reason for the collapse of Rome, but it certainly contributed the the decline. Fear the government that fears your guns.

Passing laws against robbery murder has not stopped people from robbing and murdering. Passing laws against guns will prevent law-abiding citizens from having them. This means you are more distrustful of law-abiding citizens than you are fearful of people whose career goal is to rob and murder. The police are not our private 24-hour personal bodyguards. There are not enough police to go around to each home. There are more criminals than police now, and the job of the police is normally after the fact. The responsibility to protect yourself and your family falls on your shoulders first and foremost. The right of a living creature to defend itself is a right granted by nature. It is not a privilege granted by law.

"Law abiding citizens" are the ones providing criminals with guns. 250,000 guns are stolen in the United States each year.