Obama Admits it: Conservatism Works

[sealybobo]

When has liberalism (whatever that is) ever worked?

Thom Hartmann read this story about a typical American going through life and just about everything we enjoy about America came from liberals.

You, LABOR, making a good wage. That came from unions.

Time off for your wife and she gets to keep her job? Came from liberals.

Healthcare? Came from liberals.

Social Security? Came from liberals. Conservatives bankrupted it, but the concept is a very good idea.

I'm not doing the story justice. Seriously, everything you have, you can thank liberals. Vacation days, sick days, labor laws that protect your sorry ass, etc. I'll try to find the story.

And while the liberals were giving away the store the Conservatives were in the Military keeping our freedoms safe.

Lots of poor black kids serve in the military. Always have. Gays too before Bush though them out of the military. So don't suggest that only conservatives serve. In fact, Obama won the military vote if I'm not mistaken. I guess the troops didn't want to bomb bomb bomb Iran.

Republicans used the military to loot the treasury and you know it. They pissed on the troops. And half of those troops aren't "conservatives". Their mostly poor and middle class, so they are or should be Democrats. Maybe they are brainwashed by the conservative/corrupt generals when they get there because no doubt the military tells them that liberals will cut military spending. And they are correct.

 

[sealybobo]

TomPaine.com - It's The Conservatism, Stupid
Paul Waldman
July 12, 2006

A good first step would be to never, ever again use the word with a positive connotation. How many times has a Democrat, in order to score a debating point, said, “A true conservative wouldn’t tolerate these Republican deficits?” How many times have solidly liberal Democrats described themselves as “fiscally conservative?” Those formulations accept that true conservatives are principled people with noble goals. They are not, and should not be talked about as though they were. When was the last time you heard a Republican call himself a “social liberal,” even if he is one? They don’t, because they understand that liberalism is an opposing ideology to which they will give no aid or comfort.

So allow me to offer a few points of attack on conservatism, ones that will resonate with the public and accrue both short-term and long-term gains to the liberals who use them.

1. Conservatism has failed. The overwhelming majority of the American public now sees the Bush administration as a failure. They failed in Iraq, they failed after Hurricane Katrina, they failed on health care, they failed to deliver rising wages, they failed on the deficit, they failed, they failed, they failed. Why? Liberals need to argue that it wasn’t a product of incompetence, it was a failure of conservative governance. As Alan Wolfe put it in a recent Washington Monthly article, “Conservatives cannot govern well for the same reason that vegetarians cannot prepare a world-class boeuf bourguignon: If you believe that what you are called upon to do is wrong, you are not likely to do it very well.”

Conservatives had their chance: a Republican president, a Republican Congress, Republican-appointed courts—in short, the perfect environment for enacting their vision with little to stand in their way—and they failed. Should we be surprised at the level of corruption? Of course not; they don’t think government is there to serve the people, so why shouldn’t they raid it for whatever they can grab?

In short, progressives should start talking about the Bush administration’s failures not as those of a president, but of an ideology.

2. Conservatism is the ideology of the past—a past we don’t want to return to. Liberals need to embrace the culture war, because we’re winning. The story of American history is that of conservative ideas and prejudices falling away as our society grows more progressive and thus more true to our nation’s founding ideals. Conservatives supported slavery, conservatives opposed women’s suffrage, conservatives supported Jim Crow, conservatives opposed the 40-hour work week and the abolishment of child labor, and conservatives supported McCarthyism. In short, all the major advancements of freedom and justice in our history were pushed by liberals and opposed by conservatives, no matter the party they inhabited at the time.

Conservatism is Bill Bennett lecturing you about self-denial, then rushing off to feed his slot habit at the casino. It’s James Dobson telling you that children need regular beatings to stay in line. It’s a superannuated nun rapping you on the knuckles so you won’t think about your dirty parts. It’s Jerry Falwell watching “Teletubbies” frame by frame to see if Tinky Winky is trying to turn him gay. Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be.

3. Conservatives are cowards, and they hope you are, too. We’re afraid, they shout. We’re so afraid of terrorists, we have to become more like the things we hate. We’re so afraid, we have to let our government sanction torture. We’re so afraid, we have to let the government spy on us. We’re so afraid, we have to give the president dictatorial powers. We’re so afraid, we just want to rush to the arms of politicians who say they’ll protect us.

Progressives need to frame their rejection of the fear campaign as an act of courage: Al-Qaida does not scare us, and we will not dismantle our democratic system because we are afraid. The America we love does not cower in fear, as the conservatives want it to.

These are just a few ways progressives can begin to talk about contemporary issues in the context of the larger ideological conflict that shapes our political history. As an added bonus, when we make clear just what it is we are against at its fundamental, philosophical level, we define for the public who we are and what we stand for.

One of the troubling contradictions in contemporary public opinion is that while on nearly every issue the progressive position is more popular, the number of people willing to tell a pollster they consider themselves “conservative” still far outnumbers the number willing to say they’re “liberal.” It wasn’t always that way, and it doesn’t have to be that way. Winning converts isn’t just about convincing people you’re right on the merits of issues, it’s also about showing them that your side is one they want to join, and the other side is one they want to avoid.

The key challenge facing progressives right now is how—once George W. Bush decamps for Crawford in January of 2009—to maintain the increased energy motivating the political left in recent years . They will be able to do so if they come to understand that George W. Bush is not what they need to fight. What they need to fight is conservatism.

We do want to see Obama's policies actually improve unemployment and wages.

But once the economy is back on track, I wouldn't mind some fiscal responsibility. But that isn't going to happen until Obama's second term.

Clinton was able to balance the budget in part because HW Bush raised taxes. Clinton also did some spending to get us back on track. The GOP fought both decisions. It cost Bush the election. Neither were conservative things to do. And Clinton cut a lot of spending on things like military. Again, not liberal.

Clinton signed NAFTA. That was a conservative thing to do, and it was a mistake too.

He also helped the GOP Newt Congress deregulate and cut some social programs like welfare.

So sprinkling conservative ideas into our Democracy is a good idea. Letting Conservatives run our democracy is not.

 

[Article 15]

When has liberalism (whatever that is) ever worked?

Thom Hartmann read this story about a typical American going through life and just about everything we enjoy about America came from liberals.

You, LABOR, making a good wage. That came from unions.

Time off for your wife and she gets to keep her job? Came from liberals.

Healthcare? Came from liberals.

Social Security? Came from liberals. Conservatives bankrupted it, but the concept is a very good idea.

I'm not doing the story justice. Seriously, everything you have, you can thank liberals. Vacation days, sick days, labor laws that protect your sorry ass, etc. I'll try to find the story.

And while the liberals were giving away the store the Conservatives were in the Military keeping our freedoms safe.

Hi! Liberal-ish vet here. There are several other liberal vets like myself who are members of this board. I just wanted to let you know that we exist and that conservatives don't have a monopoly in the military. K?

 

[California Girl]

Only a commie would be glad Cronkite is dead.

I would rather be dead than red.

They are happy that Walter Cronkite is dead and yet celebrate the works of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and Beck

It's that tricky thing we call 'freedom of speech', rightwhiner. The left are equally as entitled to it as those evil demons named. It is not our fault that - when the left speaks - no one listens.... we can't hear the high pitched whine.... only dogs can hear it.

 

[rightwinger]

Only a commie would be glad Cronkite is dead.

I would rather be dead than red.

They are happy that Walter Cronkite is dead and yet celebrate the works of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and Beck

It's that tricky thing we call 'freedom of speech', rightwhiner. The left are equally as entitled to it as those evil demons named. It is not our fault that - when the left speaks - no one listens.... we can't hear the high pitched whine.... only dogs can hear it.

You still have no concept of freedom of speech.
The first amendment says "Congress shall pass no laws....." which means you can't be arrested or fined for what you say or write.

The first amendment does not prevent you from being criticised or pay the consequences for what you may say. If you call the bosses wife a slut, he can still fire you.....there is no freedom of speech excuse

 

[California Girl]

They are happy that Walter Cronkite is dead and yet celebrate the works of Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity and Beck

It's that tricky thing we call 'freedom of speech', rightwhiner. The left are equally as entitled to it as those evil demons named. It is not our fault that - when the left speaks - no one listens.... we can't hear the high pitched whine.... only dogs can hear it.

You still have no concept of freedom of speech.
The first amendment says "Congress shall pass no laws....." which means you can't be arrested or fined for what you say or write.

The first amendment does not prevent you from being criticised or pay the consequences for what you may say. If you call the bosses wife a slut, he can still fire you.....there is no freedom of speech excuse

Gee, thanks for 'splainin' that, rightwhiner. Really, I had no idea...... no idea that you were really a condescending sexist asshole. See - I'm exercising my right to speak freely.

 

[antagon]

After a year of full blown FDR/Soviet Style Central Planning, after a year of TARP and "Stimulus" spending, after a year of denigrating capitalism and free enterprise, Obama has finally seen the light and admits that Conservatism works; only Conservatism can set the foundation for small businesses to bloom and prosper.

Maybe he was visited by the Spirits of Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman and Adams Smith last night, who knows? All we can tell is that today he has come to the realization that government spending does not create jobs. In America, that's a job for small businesses!

Welcome Obama! Glad to have you aboard.

--Yeah it's like Obama woke up in the middle of the night (I mean last night) & finally realised that it's TRUE: "Small business is the largest employer in this country." This while he has been bailing out auto unions to the tune of billions--he may have finally figured out that it's the "small mom & pop shops" --(non union) that keep this country moving "forward.")

Funny though--congress still doesn't get it. They actually believe that small business employes more than 50 employees thereby would be required to cover their employees with medical insurance---

Most small businesses in this country have less than 10 employees--therefore the majority of this country would still not be covered by any medical insurance plan--sponsored by the government--

In fact, it's ironic how incompetent this federal government is. They don't seem to realise where jobs come from & when they finally do--they can't count.

genius, i figure thats why theres a 50 employee floor on the bill: as not to encumber micro-businesses.

 

[antagon]

We do want to see Obama's policies actually improve unemployment and wages.

But once the economy is back on track, I wouldn't mind some fiscal responsibility. But that isn't going to happen until Obama's second term.

Clinton was able to balance the budget in part because HW Bush raised taxes. Clinton also did some spending to get us back on track. The GOP fought both decisions. It cost Bush the election. Neither were conservative things to do. And Clinton cut a lot of spending on things like military. Again, not liberal.

Clinton signed NAFTA. That was a conservative thing to do, and it was a mistake too.

He also helped the GOP Newt Congress deregulate and cut some social programs like welfare.

So sprinkling conservative ideas into our Democracy is a good idea. Letting Conservatives run our democracy is not.

NAFTA was a great idea. bush abandoned that at the expense of our local economy and forged de facto trade deals with china which werent nearly as rich.

 

[rightwinger]

It's that tricky thing we call 'freedom of speech', rightwhiner. The left are equally as entitled to it as those evil demons named. It is not our fault that - when the left speaks - no one listens.... we can't hear the high pitched whine.... only dogs can hear it.

You still have no concept of freedom of speech.
The first amendment says "Congress shall pass no laws....." which means you can't be arrested or fined for what you say or write.

The first amendment does not prevent you from being criticised or pay the consequences for what you may say. If you call the bosses wife a slut, he can still fire you.....there is no freedom of speech excuse

Gee, thanks for 'splainin' that, rightwhiner. Really, I had no idea...... no idea that you were really a condescending sexist asshole. See - I'm exercising my right to speak freely.

And yet you will still scream "freedom of speech" every time someone criticises something your wingnut idols say

 

[Vast LWC]

Hi! Liberal-ish vet here. There are several other liberal vets like myself who are members of this board. I just wanted to let you know that we exist and that conservatives don't have a monopoly in the military. K?

Like me. Thank you very much.

In fact, with a few notable exceptions, I rarely see conservative posters on this board who were military. Most of them are armchair warriors.

Be that as it may, looking over the posts from the right-wing posters on this thread, I am truly saddened that a portion of the US population has been so thoroughly brainwashed about so many things.

You people seriously need to stop listening to Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck and actually try to start looking at actual facts and forming your own opinions. Because this thread looks like someone strung together a long, incoherent list of FoxNews/Limbaugh talking points.

It's sad really.

 

[Vast LWC]

It's that tricky thing we call 'freedom of speech', rightwhiner. The left are equally as entitled to it as those evil demons named. It is not our fault that - when the left speaks - no one listens.... we can't hear the high pitched whine.... only dogs can hear it.

And yet you bitch and moan like spoiled little children about left-wing proposals, talking points, and policies every day on this very board.

How odd.

 

[DiamondDave]

In fact, with a few notable exceptions, I rarely see conservative posters on this board who were military. Most of them are armchair warriors.

Be that as it may, looking over the posts from the right-wing posters on this thread, I am truly saddened that a portion of the US population has been so thoroughly brainwashed about so many things.

You people seriously need to stop listening to Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck and actually try to start looking at actual facts and forming your own opinions. Because this thread looks like someone strung together a long, incoherent list of FoxNews/Limbaugh talking points.

It's sad really.

Absolute horse shit

and YOU of all people complaining that others are 'brainwashed'.. truly laughable

 

[Vast LWC]

Here, I'll regurgitate the opening line of the OP from this very thread to prove my point (since reading it makes me want to regurgitate):

"After a year of full blown FDR/Soviet Style Central Planning, after a year of TARP and "Stimulus" spending, after a year of denigrating capitalism and free enterprise, Obama has finally seen the light and admits that Conservatism works; only Conservatism can set the foundation for small businesses to bloom and prosper."

That particular line could have been taken directly from Hannity, Beck or Limbaugh's shows.

 

[DiamondDave]

Here, I'll regurgitate the opening line of the OP from this very thread to prove my point (since reading it makes me want to regurgitate):

"After a year of full blown FDR/Soviet Style Central Planning, after a year of TARP and "Stimulus" spending, after a year of denigrating capitalism and free enterprise, Obama has finally seen the light and admits that Conservatism works; only Conservatism can set the foundation for small businesses to bloom and prosper."

That particular line could have been taken directly from Hannity, Beck or Limbaugh's shows.

And it could have been taken from their own thinking and reasoning... and it could have been taken from what was learned while studying the Soviet system in classes... or so many other origins... personally I don't know if it could have been an idea taken from Rush or Hannity or whomever else, as I am not a listener of any of those

Meanwhile you have your lefty brethren and sisters spouting off slogan style statements we heard all during the election, yet you seem to have nothing to say about those instances...

And as for your thoughts that it is rare to see conservative posters who are ex-military... you are WAYYYYY off base on that one

 

[Vast LWC]

Here are more talking points that can be found on the first page of the thread:

"Medicare doesn't work. It is a money pit."

"Reagan knew this and he cuts taxes and cuts the cost of energy and the economy roared!"

"the Libruls tried every trick in their playbook to support the Insurgency but now that we won they/re out front taking Victory Laps."

 

[Vast LWC]

And it could have been taken from their own thinking and reasoning... and it could have been taken from what was learned while studying the Soviet system in classes... or so many other origins... personally I don't know if it could have been an idea taken from Rush or Hannity or whomever else, as I am not a listener of any of those

That's funny. Please show us some actual examples of Obama engaging in Soviet-style Communism/Totalitairianism, besides the outright distortions and lies spread by Hannity and Rush.

Meanwhile you have your lefty brethren and sisters spouting off slogan style statements we heard all during the election, yet you seem to have nothing to say about those instances...

Like?

And as for your thoughts that it is rare to see conservative posters who are ex-military... you are WAYYYYY off base on that one

I count 3 regular posters that are right-wing and ex-military on these boards, one of them being a fellow ex-MSNBC board veteran that is rarely on. Do you have more examples that I am not aware of?

 

[DiamondDave]

And it could have been taken from their own thinking and reasoning... and it could have been taken from what was learned while studying the Soviet system in classes... or so many other origins... personally I don't know if it could have been an idea taken from Rush or Hannity or whomever else, as I am not a listener of any of those

That's funny. Please show us some actual examples of Obama engaging in Soviet-style Communism/Totalitairianism, besides the outright distortions and lies spread by Hannity and Rush.

Meanwhile you have your lefty brethren and sisters spouting off slogan style statements we heard all during the election, yet you seem to have nothing to say about those instances...

Like?

And as for your thoughts that it is rare to see conservative posters who are ex-military... you are WAYYYYY off base on that one

I count 3 regular posters that are right-wing and ex-military on these boards, one of them being a fellow ex-MSNBC board veteran that is rarely on. Do you have more examples that I am not aware of?

Soviet style... try any of his attempts, talk about, or support behind government control or takeover of an industry or business... try any of his dictating to business what they are going to do... jeez, you are that blinded that you cannot see the forest for the trees??... and as stated, I don't listen to the shows you listed, so I do not really know the extent of their arguments.. hell, the only thing I have seen on Rush for YEARS was him being on Shattner's Raw Nerve

Like... let's just say you take any post from rdean, rightwinger, or chris, and you can see an example first hand... hell, right from this thread http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/97914-obama-admits-it-conservatism-works-2.html#post1810552

And there are plenty of conservative ex-military posters... all you have to do is look.. as for wingers.. considering you appear to think that anything right of Obama is 'right wing', that number should increase from your perspective... as for more conservative vets we have here.. Navy, myself, gunny, rgs, tech, big black dog, jester, T, Old Rocks, Ollie... you want me to KEEP listing???

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here, I'll regurgitate the opening line of the OP from this very thread to prove my point (since reading it makes me want to regurgitate):

"After a year of full blown FDR/Soviet Style Central Planning, after a year of TARP and "Stimulus" spending, after a year of denigrating capitalism and free enterprise, Obama has finally seen the light and admits that Conservatism works; only Conservatism can set the foundation for small businesses to bloom and prosper."

That particular line could have been taken directly from Hannity, Beck or Limbaugh's shows.

That's because those shows must pay people to read my posts and it wouldn't be the first time that something I posted in the morning gets talked about on the shows later in the day. We're not Libruls waiting for our talking points from Media Matters or Kos or HufferPufferinton

 

[DiamondDave]

Which we just had another left winger point to the huffington as some 'clear' analysis on an issue... http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...es-support-for-health-bill-2.html#post1813080

What next?? A Thom Hartman citation as fact again?? LMFAO

 

[Vast LWC]

Soviet style... try any of his attempts, talk about, or support behind government control or takeover of an industry or business...

OK, let's start here. Obama "took over" one business, in total. GM.

And that was only because GM was in debt to the American taxpayer to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.

Rather than have GM default on it's debt to the government, Obama moved in to try and make it solvent again, with the end goal of allowing it to be an independent company again in the future.

That is in no way related to Soviet style communism. Not even in the slightest.

try any of his dictating to business what they are going to do...

You mean the businesses that were using taxpayer money to pay out ridiculous amounts of money to a few executives?

Sounds like being a concerned investor to me. Bush was the one who lent out the money in the first place to the banks, not Obama. Obama was just trying to make sure we got the money back.

Did you all WANT the money we invested in the banking industry to dissappear? Because it sure seems like you did.

Again, this would NOT be an example of Soviet Communism.

jeez, you are that blinded that you cannot see the forest for the trees??... and as stated, I don't listen to the shows you listed, so I do not really know the extent of their arguments.. hell, the only thing I have seen on Rush for YEARS was him being on Shattner's Raw Nerve

If you are stating that Obama's style of governing is similar to Soviet Russia, than you must have heard it from some right-wing talking head, as the point is patently false. Unless by some amazing coincidence you happened to reach the same false conclusion by yourself, using almost the exact same language.

Like... let's just say you take any post from rdean, rightwinger, or chris, and you can see an example first hand... hell, right from this thread Obama Admits it: Conservatism Works

Specifically?

And there are plenty of conservative ex-military posters... all you have to do is look.. as for wingers.. considering you appear to think that anything right of Obama is 'right wing', that number should increase from your perspective... as for more conservative vets we have here.. Navy, myself, gunny, rgs, tech, big black dog, jester, T, Old Rocks, Ollie... you want me to KEEP listing???

Jester, Navy and Gunny are the only ones I know. You have stated you are one, and I believe you, as there is no reason to think otherwise. As far as the other names you mentioned, some are definite fakes, and I am not familiar with the others.