O Jerusalem, Take Heed

Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by Darween, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. Darween
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    Darween Rookie

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    O Jerusalem, take heed. The current situation in Israel is untenable; there is an unending conflict between the Palestinians and the Jews. Jewish inhabitants distrust the Palestinians, and vice versa. The age-old struggle between them has cost many lives, much hardship and untold sorrow. The conflict has generated tremendous anger, hatred and distrust – forcing them to live under a single umbrella has proven to be a formula for unending friction.

    In order to allow a chance for peace in the Middle East, something has to give. Wars will not bring an end to it, as they have been going on for centuries with no resolution. Negotiations and mediations between the parties have not worked either.

    The two peoples cannot continue to be forced to live together in the contrived single state of Israel. THEY NEED TO BE PERMANENTLY SEPARATED. A new state needs to be formed for the Palestinian occupants of Israel. The only practical solution is to have the new state created with continuous borders and a sea port.

    The Gaza Strip is already populated by Palestinians, and it has a sea port. The West Bank is also populated with many Palestinians, so the two should be connected with land. This means that there should be no reason for a citizen of the new Palestinian state to have to cross into Israel to reach some part of his or her country. Likewise, there should be no reason for Israelis to need to cross the Palestinian borders to reach any part of Israel. This will eliminate much of the friction at the borders.

    Also, neighbouring countries should consider granting some land to the Palestinians, so that the new state has enough land to reasonably house its people and become a viable nation state.

    Jerusalem is a major sticking point in regard to a two-state solution, which affects not only the parties, but peace in the region. Both sides have long-standing reasons to be inflexible regarding the city. Both sides have long historical, cultural and religious reasons for their intransigence regarding Jerusalem. This has led many people to insist that the two-state solution have a shared Jerusalem. That is, severing Jerusalem in twain, part to one nation and part to another, or granting co-ownership of the city to both nation states. Are either of these proposals wise?

    The twentieth century saw what happened when secular powers divided up Berlin into sections. The situation was so bellicose that the Berlin Wall was erected to section off the city. For decades, the Wall divided the people and caused tremendous misery until it was finally demolished.

    The same mentality of erecting “Berlin Walls” is very active in modern-day Israel, as is seen by the walled-off sections of the West Bank. Fencing off sections of Berlin did not work, and it should not be encouraged in Jerusalem. Further, if there are national borders running through the city of Jerusalem, it will guarantee that there will be continued friction and bloodshed in the city.

    It is understood that neither party wants to relinquish all rights to Jerusalem, but, in reality, to have lasting peace in the area, is there any other choice? I suggest that there is not. Many centuries of conflict support my position. Therefore, in my opinion, Jerusalem should either be wholly within the nation of Israel or wholly within the newly created Palestinian state. To accomplish this, one side or the other would necessarily have to relinquish Jerusalem voluntarily, if it is to be settled amicably. It should be realized that the side that vacates Jerusalem should be amply compensated for it when boundaries for the two newly-formed nation states are drawn.

    Clearly, both parties’ claims to Jerusalem are heavily based on religious grounds. If neither side will voluntarily relinquish the city, then, after solemn prayers, a lot should be cast over which nation state will house Jerusalem. Those who sincerely believe in the Divine should accept that the lot will result in the Divine’s will being carried out.

    I have seen the future for the area presently known as Israel if a two-state solution is not soon implemented, with one of the nation states having exclusive control and ownership of Jerusalem. The future will certainly be filled with many more tears and much more sorrow for everyone in the area. This future can be changed if Jerusalem is given over to one side or the other, and two separate and independent nations are created soon. If this does not happen, I have foreseen that one, later to be known by a name that sounds something like “Ahmad Mahmud” will emerge and take Jerusalem down, and nobody will have it ever after.

    Amitakh Stanford
     
  2. strollingbones
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    strollingbones Diamond Member

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    so if i can bottom line this....you want 2 states...with one having control over the 'holy city'...and i take it...you would like that control to go to whom?

    you might wanna bottom line this...people arent gonna read all that....just sayin
     
  3. JW Frogen
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    JW Frogen Gold Member

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    He wants to lament, anyone can lament.

    It is easy, and fun too.
     
  4. Neubarth
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    Neubarth At the Ballpark July 30th

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    A long mass of total bullshit. There are no such people as the Palestinians. Thousands of years ago there were the Philistines, but those people of ancient times were not resurrected.
     
  5. Shorebreak
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    Shorebreak Active Member

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    I have an awesome collection of Nat Geo magazines - with the original maps - dating back to 1900. Who were the people who lived in the part of the ME that is now Israel but is labeled Palestine on all of my old maps?

    Just curious.

    Here's a few links to some others. This one is currently on auction if you are interested in buying it to remove it from the evidence pool:

    Antique map by DUFOUR - Égypte Palestine et Phénicie.

    This one will be more difficult for you to remove - it's from Encyclopedia Britannica in 1900:

    Arabia, c. 1900 :: history of Arabia -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

    Oh yeah - there's this one too. This should help clear up the misnomer that Israel was founded as a response to Hitler and the holocaust. In reality, the British Monarchy and the leaders of the zionist movement had tried to convince the Jewish people to occupy Palestine 30 years earlier, and was assisted by the corporatist globalists from the League of Nations in 1922. Back then the idea was rejected by Jewish leadership as a very bad idea. Here's the agreement, "Mandate for Palestine" and it's references throughout that detail that the occupied land is officially known as Palestine:

    Modern History Sourcebook: League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, July 24, 1922

    The next time one of you deniers/revisionists/bigots tries to claim that Palestine didn't exist, try opening your eyes to a few facts before you continue to embarrass yourselves.
     
  6. Neubarth
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    Neubarth At the Ballpark July 30th

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    You can make all the False documentation and try to contradict God all you want. All that is going to get you is a ticket to Hell.

    The entire Middle East is God's Land of Eden. It belongs to Him and Him alone. There is no Palestine. Never has been and never will be. God has spoken. He is soon going to kill all of the Satanists who say that Allah (Satan) is God. Good riddance!
     
  7. American Horse
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    American Horse AKA "Mustang"

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    Before Roman Occupation the land that is present day Palestine was part of the land that would become the Roman Province of Judea. There were several rebellions against Roman rule, and in the year 135 AD the Roman Emperor Hadrian, determined to wipe out the identity of Israel-Judah-Judea, took the name Palastina and imposed it on all the Land of Israel.

    At the same time, he changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina. The Romans killed many Jews and sold many more in slavery. Some of those who survived left (and established Jewish communities throughout the Middle East) but there was never a complete abandonment of their native land.

    Subsequent Time-Line:
    [A]fter Bar Kokhba's fall, their last revolt, Rome and Byzantium held on to Palestine for 500 years (136 C.E. to 636 C.E.), but ...

    the Arabs and Egyptians, who reigned over Palestine for about 880 years — from 637 to 1517 — "never had organic ties to the land." ...

    ... by 1500 the population had declined to barely 200,000 people. For comparison, the state of New Jersey, roughly comparable to Israel in size, had a 2001 population of about 8.5 million people and still had rural, undeveloped areas....

    the Turks, who ruled from 1517 to 1917 ... "were even less integrated into the country than the Arabs." ... After a 400-year reign, Turkish culture and the Turkish language remained as foreign in Palestine as they were 400 years earlier

    The Ottoman tax system was ruinous and did much to keep the land underdeveloped and the population small. When Alexander W. Kinglake crossed the Jordan in 1834-35, he used the Jordan's only bridge, a survival from Roman antiquity.

    Among the many European settlements established, the most significant in the long run were those of Jews, Russian Jews being the first to come (1882).

    It is important to note that there was a Jewish population in Palestine continuously. Even after the Jewish state was ended by the Romans, Jewish communities continued to exist. All of the successor governments tried to eliminate the Jews at one time or another, but none succeeded as numerous accounts testify over the centuries. ...

    In the wars and uprisings, many cities were ruined and many communities destroyed, but the farm population could not be wiped out so easily. ...for it was land developed by his sweat and that of his parents....

    Above timeline excerpted from FROM; EARLY HISTORY PALESTINE HISTORY

    As you suggest- maps are helpful; here is a map with
    legend showing the ancient Roman Province of Judea
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
  8. Shorebreak
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    Shorebreak Active Member

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    Assuming I were to abandon spirituality and "get religion", and I were to buy into the categorically evil premise that Israeli zionists have a God-given right to force tens of thousands of families from their traditional farms and villages.....

    ....every time I look in a mirror I would have to admit to myself that I'm a fraud because I know in my heart that I would defend my home if a group of militant Native American Indians received UN support for taking my property because it lies on their former soil.

    I would therefore be the ultimate hypocrite.

    Following the same line of reasoning, there are no Americans. The American people are a manufactured identity, formulated only to propogate the myth that we deserve to have control of our land.

    Therefore, if a Native American Indian were to challenge me on my legitimacy in owning my property - my right to do so - he can even use DNA evidence to prove that he is correct and I have no right to claim ownership of the land - even though I inherited it from my father and grandfather.

    That is your logic, backed up by some selfish and ungodly belief that scripture passages grant zionists the right to debase, demoralize, starve, kill, and dehumanize the current and recent residents of a land that was known 2000 years ago as Judea.

    The filth and stench of your wretched and unholy and hateful dogma is sickening to me.
     
  9. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    You do know I am still waiting for you to answer two rather simple questions in another thread, don't you. Let me further educate you here.

    The origins of Palestine date back to the 5th century when the name was applied to the Eastern Coast of the Mediterranean by the dominant world power at the time. As Romans 13 clearly states that all power are ordained by God, and that anyone who resist those powers is actually resisting God, your claim that Palestinians do not exist is challenging the power of God.

    Unless you can point to the cherubim and the sword guarding the entrance to Eden I do not think you can claim the Middle East is God's Land of Eden. Your lack of true understanding becomes more apparent every time you post.
     

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