NY, LA, Miami and 'Dirty Bomb' Threat

[dilloduck]

Of course. Now if you could show me where I suggested that the continued American presence is the cause of it, that would be real nice.

Your statement:

I sincerely believe that this idea that our presence is keeping Iraqis from killing one another does not pass the straight face test.

Is this just a gut feeling or just another guess at what would happen if US troops left Iraq ?

 

[maineman]

youir initial statement attacked as "baseless" what you called my "claim that American presence is causing bloodshed is Iraq".

When asked to please substantiate that, you hemmed and hawed and then came up with a quote from me which indicated that I was dubious of the assertion that the presence of Americans was keeping Iraqis from killing one another.

Are you really blind to the error of that logic?

an analogy:

I would say:

"I think it is crazy to suggest that stationing 100 extra cops in East LA is really doing anything to keep latino gangs from conducting drive by shootings"

and you would reply:

"I think your claim that LA cops cause latinos to shoot one another from moving cars is baseless!"

got anything more intelligent that idiotic illogical mumbo jumbo to support your claim, or is that it?

 

[dilloduck]

youir initial statement attacked as "baseless" what you called my "claim that American presence is causing bloodshed is Iraq".

When asked to please substantiate that, you hemmed and hawed and then came up with a quote from me which indicated that I was dubious of the assertion that the presence of Americans was keeping Iraqis from killing one another.

Are you really blind to the error of that logic?

an analogy:

I would say:

"I think it is crazy to suggest that stationing 100 extra cops in East LA is really doing anything to keep latino gangs from conducting drive by shootings"

and you would reply:

"I think your claim that LA cops cause latinos to shoot one another from moving cars is baseless!"

got anything more intelligent that idiotic illogical mumbo jumbo to support your claim, or is that it?

ok--now you're "dubious" that our troops are preventing bloodshed. Is this feeling something that you would like the administration to act on?

 

[Annie]

I've little time right now to be jumping in. A few observations:

1. MM has been very careful never to blame the troops. Like most in the military, when charges have been brought or suggested, he only hoped the truth 'will out.' My guess he is very happy with the latest news of charges being dropped against several.

2. I've never read MM say he thinks the US policies have 'killed/hurt' more Iraqis than under Saddam. He may have, if so I missed it. His unrelenting diatribes have been that US policies are hurting the US. (I do not necessarily agree, though I do recognize instances.)

3. MM walks a very fine line in backing the military, slamming the present administration, and leaving an opening for what he hopes will be a Democratic administration.

 

[dilloduck]

I've little time right now to be jumping in. A few observations:

1. MM has been very careful never to blame the troops. Like most in the military, when charges have been brought or suggested, he only hoped the truth 'will out.' My guess he is very happy with the latest news of charges being dropped against several.

2. I've never read MM say he thinks the US policies have 'killed/hurt' more Iraqis than under Saddam. He may have, if so I missed it. His unrelenting diatribes have been that US policies are hurting the US. (I do not necessarily agree, though I do recognize instances.)

3. MM walks a very fine line in backing the military, slamming the present administration, and leaving an opening for what he hopes will be a Democratic administration.

Thanks--maybe now he can explain why he is "dubious".

 

[maineman]

ok--now you're "dubious" that our troops are preventing bloodshed. Is this feeling something that you would like the administration to act on?

look, fuckstick...you were the one who said that I had "claimed that American presence is causing bloodshed is Iraq" and you called that claim "baseless". Are you gonna continue to weasel away from that erroneous assertion or are you gonna be a big boy and just admit that you fucked up?

 

[maineman]

and I am "dubious" that the American military presence is preventing anyone from killing anyone because we are there en masse and folks are killing each other in large numbers every day. Is that really that hard to comprehend? I firmly believe that Iraqi sunnis and shiites will not be able to live peacefully in a multi-cultural jeffersonian democracy. period. If we stay there five more months or five more years or five more fucking decades, they will continue to kill us and kill each other at some undetermined rate, and whenever we leave, they will continue killing each other at some other - most likely greater- rate until somebody somewhere = and it will NOT be in Washington, but someplace in the islamic world - figures out a way to separate the sects and divide the territory and the assets of this post WWI european artificial "construct" known as Iraq.....or until a strongman dictator can force those warring sects into submission without the impediment of the multicultural jeffersonian democracy.

 

[dilloduck]

and I am "dubious" that the American military presence is preventing anyone from killing anyone because we are there en masse and folks are killing each other in large numbers every day. Is that really that hard to comprehend? I firmly believe that Iraqi sunnis and shiites will not be able to live peacefully in a multi-cultural jeffersonian democracy. period. If we stay there five more months or five more years or five more fucking decades, they will continue to kill us and kill each other at some undetermined rate, and whenever we leave, they will continue killing each other at some other - most likely greater- rate until somebody somewhere = and it will NOT be in Washington, but someplace in the islamic world - figures out a way to separate the sects and divide the territory and the assets of this post WWI european artificial "construct" known as Iraq.....or until a strongman dictator can force those warring sects into submission without the impediment of the multicultural jeffersonian democracy.

No--that's easy to comprehend. So if I do the math correctly, killing each other at a "most likely greater rate" would mean at the current rate the killing rate would be a "less than" thereby making it fair to make the assumption that the current presence of American troops in Iraq is preventing some bloodshed.

 

[maineman]

and wouldn't it be loverly if that strongman dictator could possibly be someone who would stand firm against wahabbist islamic extremists and the regional hegemony of the theocracy in Iran?

oh... wait... we HAD that guy already, but we HUNG him because he was a strongman dictator.

real fucking smart.

Saddam's gone. the rape rooms are gone. the oppressive dictatorship is gone.

Al Qaeda is as strong as it was on 9/11. Iran is flexing its muscles all over the middle east.

we are a half a trillion dollars poorer. we are 3700 fighting men and women fewer. we are not one iota safer. we have squandered the post 9/11 goodwill of the world.

Let's surge some more troops. let's pour some more gasoline on the fire. it's bound to work sooner or later, isn't it?

 

[maineman]

No--that's easy to comprehend. So if I do the math correctly, killing each other at a "most likely greater rate" would mean at the current rate the killing rate would be a "less than" thereby making it fair to make the assumption that the current presence of American troops in Iraq is preventing some bloodshed.

no. only the rate of bloodshed. How quickly do we fill up the bucket with blood? How much of the volume of blood will be American?

 

[maineman]

No--that's easy to comprehend. So if I do the math correctly, killing each other at a "most likely greater rate" would mean at the current rate the killing rate would be a "less than" thereby making it fair to make the assumption that the current presence of American troops in Iraq is preventing some bloodshed.

and when you gonna own up to your gross misstatement, pussy?

 

[dilloduck]

and when you gonna own up to your gross misstatement, pussy?

calm down big boy and show me this "misstatement".

 

[maineman]

calm down big boy and show me this "misstatement".

did it already...quit being a weasel.

 

[maineman]

one more time for the weasel:

youir initial statement attacked as "baseless" what you called my "claim that American presence is causing bloodshed is Iraq".

When asked to please substantiate that, you hemmed and hawed and then came up with a quote from me which indicated that I was dubious of the assertion that the presence of Americans was keeping Iraqis from killing one another.

Are you really blind to the error of that logic?

an analogy:

I would say:

"I think it is crazy to suggest that stationing 100 extra cops in East LA is really doing anything to keep latino gangs from conducting drive by shootings"

and you would reply:

"I think your claim that LA cops cause latinos to shoot one another from moving cars is baseless!"

got anything more intelligent that idiotic illogical mumbo jumbo to support your claim, or is that it?

 

[dilloduck]

calm down big boy and show me this "misstatement".

oh shit----I should have read your post. Now you're claiming the RATE of the bloodshed may increase. Now there's a huge difference.

Make some statement you can stick with. The whole thing in one post preferably.

 

[maineman]

oh shit----I should have read your post. Now you're claiming the RATE of the bloodshed may increase. Now there's a huge difference.

Make some statement you can stick with. The whole thing in one post preferably.

I am saying that all we are doing is holding court while Iraqis kill one another....AND US. Iraqis are determined to kill one another. Iraqi sunnis and shiites will never live together in a multicultural jeffersonian democracy shining like a beacon of freedom throughout the islamic world no matter how long we stay there.

And while we stay there...they continue to kill each other AND US.... and we continue to flush OUR treasure and OUR blood down the drain with theirs....and AQ is as strong as it was the day we were attacked.

Are you being purposely obtuse or are you really this fucking stupid?

 

[dilloduck]

and I am "dubious" that the American military presence is preventing anyone from killing anyone.

Read your post a couple times. It's pretty clear and doesn't same a damn thing about the "kill rate".

 

[maineman]

now if you could only find your testicles and admit that I NEVER claimed that the American presence was causing any bloodshed, that would be real nice.

get it?

 

[dilloduck]

I am saying that all we are doing is holding court while Iraqis kill one another....AND US. Iraqis are determined to kill one another. Iraqi sunnis and shiites will never live together in a multicultural jeffersonian democracy shining like a beacon of freedom throughout the islamic world no matter how long we stay there.

And while we stay there...they continue to kill each other AND US.... and we continue to flush OUR treasure and OUR blood down the drain with theirs....and AQ is as strong as it was the day we were attacked.

Will there be more killing or less killing after we leave?

 

[maineman]

explain this, douchebag:

youir initial statement attacked as "baseless" what you called my "claim that American presence is causing bloodshed is Iraq".


an analogy:

I would say:

"I think it is crazy to suggest that stationing 100 extra cops in East LA is really doing anything to keep latino gangs from conducting drive by shootings"

and you would reply:

"I think your claim that LA cops cause latinos to shoot one another from moving cars is baseless!"

got anything more intelligent that idiotic illogical mumbo jumbo to support your claim, or is that it?