Number of guns in society falling sharply

[Saigon]

Can it be that the fascination with guns is slowly coming to an end?

And can it be that the reason the US homicide rate is falling is because the number of households owning guns is falling?

It seems so, according to both the NY Times and LA Times, Gallup and the General Social Survey:

The share of American households with guns has declined over the past four decades, a national survey shows, with some of the most surprising drops in the South and the Western mountain states, where guns are deeply embedded in the culture.

The household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s and 35 percent in the 2000s, according to the survey data, analyzed by The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The major point is that the American “culture of gun ownership” that one often hears about has been strikingly on the wane for the past generation. A similar decline has taken place in the number of Americans who hunt, now about 5% of the population.

Crime is down -- and so is gun ownership - Los Angeles Times

 

[Staidhup]

Hunting license sales across the country have also fallen, however, attendance at shooting ranges and sporting clay facilities remains consistent and in some areas climbed. Hunting is viewed by certain segments of society as uncivil and is looked down upon. I remember back in the 60's and early 70's most people in my age group were vehemently anti hunting, and would rather trip out and party on.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Then along came Obama ....

-----------------

President Barack Obama is arguably the nation's top gun salesman. The "Obama surge," as the Wall Street Journal calls it (others call it the "Obama bubble"), appears to have increased gun sales in the U.S. by millions of units over his presidency.

(See Chart at link)

The chart with the Journal story shows the sustained -- and rising -- bump.
Number of monthly background checks in the first three months of each year since 1998. Source: Wall Street Journal

lBarack Obama, Gun Salesman of the Year - Bloomberg

 

[Gracie]

Reported gun ownership. What about all the guns stolen, bought and resold by criminals? They couldn't be included in the survey because there is no way to trace them.

 

[Saigon]

Reported gun ownership. What about all the guns stolen, bought and resold by criminals? They couldn't be included in the survey because there is no way to trace them.

They also would not have been included in earlier surveys.

The LA Times story acknowledges exactly this point, but the overall trend still seems very clear.

Lumpy -

Note that the graphs are not measuring the total number of guns - but the % of households in which there is a gun.

It seems quite likely that the lunatic fringe that have stockpiled weapons under Obama were gun owners to begin with.

 

[Missourian]

Folks are keeping that information to themselves these days.

Trust in government is low, and trust in anonymous folks ringing your line and asking questions about what you own is even lower.

Call me and ask me if I own a gun and I will say no.

 

[Saigon]

Missourian -

That is undoubtedly true in some cases, but given the NY Times survey finds the number of households owning guns has dropped from 50% to 35%, there is more going on than people being reticent to answer. Certainly there are plenty of people out there buying more weapons, but clearly there are also many others losing interest in owning guns for whatever reason.

This represents a clear shift across the country and culture, I would have thought.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Reported gun ownership. What about all the guns stolen, bought and resold by criminals? They couldn't be included in the survey because there is no way to trace them.

They also would not have been included in earlier surveys.

The LA Times story acknowledges exactly this point, but the overall trend still seems very clear.

Lumpy -

Note that the graphs are not measuring the total number of guns - but the % of households in which there is a gun.

It seems quite likely that the lunatic fringe that have stockpiled weapons under Obama were gun owners to begin with.

Lets talk about our lunatic fringe President shall we..

----------------------------

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration secretly gave its blessing to arms shipments to Libyan rebels from Qatar last year, but American officials later grew alarmed as evidence grew that Qatar was turning some of the weapons over to Islamic militants, according to United States officials and foreign diplomats.

No evidence has emerged linking the weapons provided by the Qataris during the uprising against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi to the attack that killed four Americans at the United States diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, in September.

But in the months before, the Obama administration clearly was worried about the consequences of its hidden hand in helping arm Libyan militants, concerns that have not previously been reported. The weapons and money from Qatar strengthened militant groups in Libya, allowing them to become a destabilizing force since the fall of the Qaddafi government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/w...-into-islamist-hands.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[The Rabbi]

Can it be that the fascination with guns is slowly coming to an end?

And can it be that the reason the US homicide rate is falling is because the number of households owning guns is falling?

It seems so, according to both the NY Times and LA Times, Gallup and the General Social Survey:

The share of American households with guns has declined over the past four decades, a national survey shows, with some of the most surprising drops in the South and the Western mountain states, where guns are deeply embedded in the culture.

The household gun ownership rate has fallen from an average of 50 percent in the 1970s to 49 percent in the 1980s, 43 percent in the 1990s and 35 percent in the 2000s, according to the survey data, analyzed by The New York Times.





]

The major point is that the American “culture of gun ownership” that one often hears about has been strikingly on the wane for the past generation. A similar decline has taken place in the number of Americans who hunt, now about 5% of the population.

Crime is down -- and so is gun ownership - Los Angeles Times

It wasn't bad enough you get your ass handed to you in the last thread you have to make up your own and repeat the same nonsense.
Look at NICS check data. They have been at record levels for the last 4 months. That is not all existing gun owners buying more. Look at NRA membership. Climbing at 8,000 a day at times. That is not all existing gun owners.
The surveys fail in two ways: first, it is self reported and many people, myself included, are not telling some stranger on the phone whether he has guns or not. Second, it is a survey of households, not individuals. There are many more households of smaller size than there used to be.

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

It may be that sales of guns in 2013 do push the overall numbers up over time so that next year we will see some kind of spike, but at the moment that increase seems to exist largely in your own imagination. By all means present data that backs your position.

I have to say, in general I have been really surprised at how little argumentation the pro-gun lobby here has been able to muster. Your entire argument seems to come down to "Ignore these statistics because I don't like them", rather than any logical, coherent case.

btw. As I am sure you are aware, the NRA tends to exaggerate it's membership by a factor of around 50%. The real current membership is estimated to be 3.11 million as of Dec 31, 2012 - a drop from 3.16 million a year earlier.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/does-the-nra-really-have-more-than-45-million-members/2013/02/07/06047c10-7164-11e2-ac36-3d8d9dcaa2e2_blog.html

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

It may be that sales of guns in 2013 do push the overall numbers up over time so that next year we will see some kind of spike, but at the moment that increase seems to exist largely in your own imagination. By all means present data that backs your position.

I have to say, in general I have been really surprised at how little argumentation the pro-gun lobby here has been able to muster. Your entire argument seems to come down to "Ignore these statistics because I don't like them", rather than any logical, coherent case.

btw. As I am sure you are aware, the NRA tends to exaggerate it's membership by a factor of around 50%. The real current membership is estimated to be 3.11 million as of Dec 31, 2012 - a drop from 3.16 million a year earlier.

Does the NRA really have more than 4.5 million members? - The Washington Post

You continually ignore or dismiss evidence that contradicts your preconceived notion. I have already explained why the surveys are meaningless and offered proof to the contrary.

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

Perhaps get back to us when you have an argument to present.

Endlessly posting the equivalent of "no, no, no, no, no" isn't terribly engaging.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

Perhaps get back to us when you have an argument to present.

Endlessly posting the equivalent of "no, no, no, no, no" isn't terribly engaging.

About what you do.
And your thread title is a lie. There are many more guns in society. That is obvious. And your bogus studies do not even contradict that.

 

[JoeB131]

Then along came Obama ....

-----------------

President Barack Obama is arguably the nation's top gun salesman. The "Obama surge," as the Wall Street Journal calls it (others call it the "Obama bubble"), appears to have increased gun sales in the U.S. by millions of units over his presidency.

(See Chart at link)

The chart with the Journal story shows the sustained -- and rising -- bump.
Number of monthly background checks in the first three months of each year since 1998. Source: Wall Street Journal

lBarack Obama, Gun Salesman of the Year - Bloomberg

Yeah, but the thing here is that the people buying guns because the scary black man is in the white house are the ones who already own guns.

And this is probably the thing.

Hunting is down as a hobby, and most people realize that a gun in the house is probalby not helping much of anything.

The Gun Manufacturers have realized this, and instead of just adjusting to a new reality, have marketted their product to the Nancy Lanza's of the world. People who are a little off and really don't need that 12th gun, but they are a market.

Again, this is the problem. The NRA works for the manufacturers, not the owners.

Which is why they oppose background checks. It depresses sales, not the ability of a responsible gun owner to enjoy his passtime.

 

[skookerasbil]

Rabbi -

Perhaps get back to us when you have an argument to present.

Endlessly posting the equivalent of "no, no, no, no, no" isn't terribly engaging.

nobody cares about what people living in Scratchmyassville, Finland think........

 

[KissMy]

And can it be that the reason the US homicide rate is falling is because the number of households owning guns is falling?

NO!

You have faulty logic. The percent or population owning guns has been falling in the USA since before the 1960's. But the US homicide rate rose rapidly from 1960 to 1992. The crime rate is falling due to aids, not gun ownership, government gun control, birth control or abortion.

November 7, 1991, basketball legend Earvin "Magic" Johnson shocked the world by announcing he tested positive for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. Within 2 months the number of people getting tested for aids was up 50%. Illegitimate birth rates dropped within 9 months due to gestation period after all the multiple partner unprotected sex stopped. Heroin & other injected drug use that had been soaring since 1960 slowed their accent.

No businessman, scientist, political policy or abortion had any positive affect on these social problems until Magic scared the riffraff straight. Two parent structure households create the best well adjusted children. Single parent & divorced households & unwanted children create criminals. LBJ's Great Society Welfare is what caused the soaring illegitimate birth & crime rates.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Folks are keeping that information to themselves these days.

Trust in government is low, and trust in anonymous folks ringing your line and asking questions about what you own is even lower.

Call me and ask me if I own a gun and I will say no.

Most of my friends don't even know I own guns.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Folks are keeping that information to themselves these days.

Trust in government is low, and trust in anonymous folks ringing your line and asking questions about what you own is even lower.

Call me and ask me if I own a gun and I will say no.

Most of my friends don't even know I own guns.

you know the poll is nothing more then a guess

if the government knew how many households

had firearms

the admin would need obamacare

to direct doctors to ask folks

if the household has any

--LOL

 

[Saigon]

Folks are keeping that information to themselves these days.

Trust in government is low, and trust in anonymous folks ringing your line and asking questions about what you own is even lower.

Call me and ask me if I own a gun and I will say no.

Most of my friends don't even know I own guns.

Really? Why not?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Folks are keeping that information to themselves these days.

Trust in government is low, and trust in anonymous folks ringing your line and asking questions about what you own is even lower.

Call me and ask me if I own a gun and I will say no.

Most of my friends don't even know I own guns.

Really? Why not?

It's no one's business but mine.