NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

[ScreamingEagle]

They know where the call is coming from.

Then why not just monitor calls coming from/going to specific places that are suspect? Why does everybody have to be monitored?

 

[GotZoom]

Then why not just monitor calls coming from/going to specific places that are suspect? Why does everybody have to be monitored?

They can't listen to everyone one of calls live at the same time. When they review the calls, once taped, they know where they are coming from.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Thanks!

How did you feel about filegate?

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n13_v48/ai_18459807

The White House handling of the FBI-files controversy is the latest indication that President Clinton's casual mendacity has seeped into the bloodstream of his Administration, defining both its tone and its modus operandi. The fate of any Clinton partisan is to become (witness Ann Lewis) a disseminator of half-truths and evasions, as the latest explanation for the latest foul-up is hauled out for the latest news cycle. In the files scandal, the Clinton cover story was discredited so quickly that the media have been less protective than usual, while congressional Republicans have managed to press their advantage nicely. The controversy promises, if not to bring down the Administration, at least to illustrate its ethical deficiencies dramatically enough that they may finally begin to exact a political price.

 

[5stringJeff]

They can't listen to everyone one of calls live at the same time. When they review the calls, once taped, they know where they are coming from.

They're not taping calls, just monitoring who you call, who calls you, etc. - an unlawful search against people who haven't been accused of a crime.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

They can't listen to everyone one of calls live at the same time. When they review the calls, once taped, they know where they are coming from.

So your saying everybody's discussions are actually being taped? And then listened to for "terrorist talk"?

It seems to me that the phone companies would easily have the expertise to funnel out calls heading to or coming from suspect places overseas like Iran, Iraq, etc. What if the overseas terrorist is located in London or Paris? How does the government know the call is from a terrorist?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

They're not taping calls, just monitoring who you call, who calls you, etc. - an unlawful search against people who haven't been accused of a crime.

The database records are not the property of the citizens, and are thus not subject to 4th amendment protections. Why can't you absorb this fact?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The database records are not the property of the citizens, and are thus not subject to 4th amendment protections. Why can't you absorb this fact?

Your for big government? Why should they have access to ALL private records of people making calls intra-country and even overseas to most places? I can understand monitoring records to places overseas that are suspect. Why can't the government make that distinction?

If there is any specific phone number/person someplace that is suspect, the government should be able to investigate on reasonable grounds.

 

[GotZoom]

I stand corrected in this case. They are not listening to live phone calls. They aren't taping phone calls and listening to them later.

This has been done in different situations of course but not this one.

Basically what these phone companie are doing is giving the government copies of your phone bill.

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Bush's comments came after USA Today reported Thursday that three telecommunication firms provided the National Security Agency with domestic telephone call records from tens of millions of Americans beginning shortly after the attacks on September 11, 2001.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/11/nsa.phonerecords/index.html

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Your for big government? Why should they have access to ALL private records of people making calls intra-country and even overseas to most places? I can understand monitoring records to places overseas that are suspect. Why can't the government make that distinction?

If there is any specific phone number/person someplace that is suspect, the government should be able to investigate on reasonable grounds.

I'm for fighting terrorism.

 

[GotZoom]

Your for big government? Why should they have access to ALL private records of people making calls intra-country and even overseas to most places? I can understand monitoring records to places overseas that are suspect. Why can't the government make that distinction?

If there is any specific phone number/person someplace that is suspect, the government should be able to investigate on reasonable grounds.

None of the 9/11 terrorists lived in the United States before flying our plans into the WTC I guess.

 

[5stringJeff]

The database records are not the property of the citizens, and are thus not subject to 4th amendment protections. Why can't you absorb this fact?

The call records belong to private companies, who are being coerced to give up information on their customers. I can't find the inherent right of the federal government to search through a private company's databases anywhere in my pocket Constitution - can you? Last time I checked, privately owned companies still enjoyed constitutional protections as well.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The call records belong to private companies, who are being coerced to give up information on their customers. I can't find the inherent right of the federal government to search through a private company's databases anywhere in my pocket Constitution - can you? Last time I checked, privately owned companies still enjoyed constitutional protections as well.

Corporations are not citizens, they're not even people. Proof of coercion would be neat to see.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

None of the 9/11 terrorists lived in the United States before flying our plans into the WTC I guess.

How would the government figure out an attack by terrorists within the country by just their phone calls to each other within the country.....unless they already had some suspicions about the guys and were actually listening to what was specifically said in the calls?

 

[5stringJeff]

I'm for fighting terrorism.

And I'm for fighting terrorism without trampling on the rights of innocent Americans.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And I'm for fighting terrorism without trampling on the rights of innocent Americans.

It's not trampling. We do not own the phone company's database.

 

[GotZoom]

How would the government figure out an attack by terrorists within the country by just their phone calls to each other within the country.....unless they already had some suspicions about the guys and were actually listening to what was specifically said in the calls?

They could have suspicions without listening to the phone calls. Transfers of money, tips, confidential informants, etc.

Even if they were to obtain a warrant to monitor phone calls, it would only be the calls made after receiving the warrant. If they had a list of every phone call in and out, they could start putting together a matrix of associates.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

They could have suspicions without listening to the phone calls. Transfers of money, tips, confidential informants, etc.

Even if they were to obtain a warrant to monitor phone calls, it would only be the calls made after receiving the warrant. If they had a list of every phone call in and out, they could start putting together a matrix of associates.

Agreed. After they've become suspect and there is reasonable cause I have no problemo with a search. A series of international phone calls to a hotbed terrorist area could be a justified reason for investigation. If there is reasonable cause I am OK with investigating past calls as well.

 

[5stringJeff]

It's not trampling. We do not own the phone company's database.

The stockholders - private citizens - own the database.

 

[Annie]

I have a huge problem with it. If the NSA wants to collect that information about a suspected terrorist or other suspected criminal, that's great. It's not great - nor is it within the limits of the Fourth Amendment - to collect that data on everyone.

I wouldn't go so far as not saying there shouldn't be limits on what they can do, however, on the side of not allowing; seems we are looking to identify then monitor, which puts the government in the gerbil cage.

If they use the 'patterns' for x # of rings or seconds, or strings of words/syllables to seek out 'possibilities' I don't have a problem. If I call 10 numbers in a matter of minutes, with each call lasting less than a minute, one might get the idea that I'm avoiding traces, etc.

 

[Annie]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither." - Ben Franklin

Common sense is the knack of seeing things as they are, and doing things as they ought to be done~Harriet Beecher Stowe